ottawa foodies

I built Ottawa Foodies from the ground up to be the best user-powered food review site around. I'm pretty sure I achieved that goal but there are still plenty of imperfections. Some of them are intentional tradeoffs to minimize complexity or maximize site efficiency; others are simply things I haven't gotten around to.

Intentional Quirks

* Few food-related tags. The power of Ottawa Foodies comes from links between vendors and foods. Other sites might have tags like "Pizza", "Appetizers", "Soup" to indicate the kind of food a restaurant serves. I shun this in favour of having actual foods connected to the restaurant: "Pizza", "Wings", "Nachos", "Hot and Sour Soup", etc. Also, many of the conventional benefits of tags can be realized via the "find" box. Rather than looking for foods with a "Vegetarian" tag, try typing "Vegetarian" into the search field.

* No tracking of a restaurant's price range, atmosphere, address or phone number. I like accuracy and it's almost impossible to track any of these without either making a lot of mistakes or spending a LOT of time on it. I don't have time for this and I don't like mistakes. :) I'm considering introducing a "Starving student" tag so we can at least identify which places have excellent value. Atmosphere is highly subjective. Addresses and phone numbers are typically nicely provided automatically by Google (click the "Location" link on any restaurant page).

* No flexible ratings (e.g. score out of ten, or five stars, etc). I went with the thumbs up or down approach because I'm convinced it's as good as any other system and much less ambiguous. If Roger Ebert can rate an entire movie this way, then we should be able to do it for a measly little menu item! ;-)

* The tracking of "unread" food/vendor comments and forum postings is quite rudimentary. I did this for the sake of speed and simplicity. So far it seems to be adequate, at least for me.

Things I just haven't gotten around to yet

* Flexible search. It would be nice to be able to find all restaurants tagged with both "Byward Market" and "Italian". This is quite high on my to-do list.

* More intuitive layout. I've been quite pleased with how quickly most people have caught on to how to use the connections between vendors and foods but not everything is intuitive for everyone. I know this but it sure isn't easy to fix because I only know what's inuitive for me! I'd very much appreciate any input on this.

* RSS feed. It would be great to see what's new on the site without having to actually come here to check.

* Optional email notification for new private messages or replies to your forum postings. This can get messy but it's in the back of my mind.

That's all that jumps to mind right now, but please share anything else that you'd like to see added or improved!

There are a number of things that aren't...intuitive, for lack of a better way to put it.

How do I add myself as a 'fan' of a place, for a start?

No doubt! Intuitiveness was my single biggest struggle when designing the user interface for this site. There's a surprising amount of complexity and I tried hard to make it look simple without losing useful info. Most pages on the site have a logical inverse counterpart:

* A vendor page lists foods associated with that vendor.
* A food page lists vendors associated with that food.

* Your profile page lists people as "favourite foodies" and "fans" (of you).
* Each of your favourite foodies has a profile page that shows you as a "fan."
* Each of your fans has a profile page that shows you as a "favourite foodie."

* Your profile page lists "favourite" vendors.
* The vendor page for each of your favourite vendors shows you as a "fan."

This last one is what you want. To add yourself as a fan of a place, simply click the big star at the top right of the page. Hovering your mouse over the star will display something like, "Add as favourite".

I'm somewhat heartened that many users here have caught on quickly. For anyone else I'm happy to shed light on whatever I can.

What differentiates Ottawa Foodies from other foodie type sites is the two-dimensional approach of vendors vs. foods. This added dimension introduces an exponential amount of complexity for which I expect there to be a learning curve. My goal is to make the curve a smooth one. :-)

I changed the term "fellow foodies" to "favourite foodies" in your profile for consistency and to make things a wee bit more intuitive. With your useful feedback, things will constantly improve! ;)

I had originally avoided the term "favourite" because it isn't really the right word and it has all sorts of socially uncomfortable connotations. However, it's the most intuitive so I'm going with it. :-)

I find it frustrating when browsing through the "tags" section that the entries with comments/reviews aren't highlighted somehow. I hate paying for bad meals, so I will go to check out an entry for a place I'm thinking of trying, only to find there are no comments posted.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mousseline. I added a comment count for food and vendor entries on the tags page. I think it's useful and it was easy to do. Please let me know if anything else frustrates you here! ;-)

I just predicted your next frustration and added a link to vendors' Websites as well. :)

I'd like to see a way to browse a page of every food listed...

And... so you shall! ;-)

Look for the "Show all foods" link on the "tags" page.

Is there any way that I can mark off a restaurant as having gone to but not actually vote for it or leave a comment?

Sorry for posting again, but can one click on a tag and then click on another tag to further filter the results? That'd be great.

Hi corneggs.. the answer to both your questions is "no" right now. However, I definitely have plans for an "advanced search" feature where you can search based on multiple tags. (Check out my initial post in this topic.)

Your other suggestion about marking off restaurants you've been to but don't have a strong opinion about is interesting. The idea had occurred to me before but I dismissed it as unnecessary complexity. But now that someone other than me suggested it, I'll give it some thought...

Thanks! :)

Filtering based on multiple tags is now available on the "tags" page. Look for the "Click here to add more tags to your search" link that appears after you select one tag.

Now you can easily find those two elusive Italian buffets! ;-)

I think my biggest gripe is including places like McD's and pizza pizza on a site dedicated to good food. I think what could set this site apart from others would be to focus on non chain restaurants. It would give some small family run businesses some much needed interest and advertising. That being said I will start posting some more reviews for the various places I have been. Cheers

I really agree with Foodie-in-training. I was really dissapointed to see so many boring chain restaurants included here - there seems to be a disproportionate amount of them on this site - although maybe as the site gains momentum and more reviews are posted that proportion will change.

My problem with reading rave reviews about McDonald's and Pizza Pizza is that in my mind, that reviewer loses a lot of credibility in terms of thier ability to recognize good food - and in turn the site also loses credibilty in it's ability to reccomend.

It's not that I don't enjoy eating at McDonald's on occassion - but to be under the pretense that this is "good food" that warrents a reccomendation on a foodie website is kinda pushing it.

What I love about food review sites, is that I can take a look at other people's experiences at interesting little of-the-beaten-track places that I've always been curious about, not to find out thier opinions on a fast-food chain that I've been to a million times.

In closing - I will also add more reviews of my own to try to add to a more exciting site experience. I really think this website has a lot of potential, however the term "foodie" doesn't seem to apply to it quite yet due to the disproportionate amount of "chain" reviews.

Wow, that was longer than I thought it would be. Thanks for listening.

I think the vendor database was probably compiled as a basic starter. It's up to us to add more vendors as we see fit.

In my opinion, excluding some vendors in the initial set-up might seem like discrimination, afterall who is the judge of this?

Let's all post what we like and dislike, and the site will become what it's destined to be.

Personally, I don't close my eyes when I drive past McD's.

:)

Thanks for the feedback, FOOD is HOT and Foodie-in-training. mmmfood hit the nail right on the head but here's my more wordy reply. ;-)

My most useful reason for including chain restaurants on this site is that most people already know how food at the chains tastes, so they provide a valuable baseline against which other restaurants can be compared. If you've eaten Lick's burgers and then see that the burgers at Dick's are inferior then you already have more useful information than you'd have had without a Lick's entry. The "thumbs up/down" rating system means that the most popular vendors for a particular food will bubble to the top.

The other reason to include chain restaurants is that we are equal *opportunity* here. Anyone can add a restaurant they like -- I'm not going to storm in and delete them if I think their food is gross. The idea is that, if the place actually does suck, it should get voted down to the bottom of the list by the discerning members of the site. One of the ideas in the back of my mind is that I could "weight" people's votes based on how popular they are here (i.e. how many people have marked them as a "favourite" reviewer). That would be the only ethical and democratic way to turn "most popular" into "best."

The "thumbs up minus thumbs down" system is more accurate than a star-rating system because it quantifies the reliability of the rating. If Genji has 10 thumbs up and no thumbs down, you can be pretty sure that the place rocks. If Pizza Pizza has 2 thumbs up and 2 thumbs down, you get a good idea that there's some disagreement there...

This voting system is in place now but it isn't all that useful yet because we are pretty new and most restaurants haven't accumulated enough votes to be statistically significant. The accuracy of the votes relies heavily on the tastes of our users so if you think your friends have exceptional taste then get them to sign up and vote! At OttawaFoodies we rate restaurants based on popularity because that's the only accurate thing we can measure.

Like you, I'm very interested in little out-of-the-way places. This site offers an opportunity for such restaurants to get good exposure. If you have a favourite, go there and take pictures, then come back here and post them along with rave reviews. If the food looks good, people will go there too and the votes will start piling up.

The important thing to remember is that if you don't agree with a positive review of a food, just give it a thumbs down and post a rebuttal. Everyone gets a voice here!

Wow, I think my reply was even longer than both of your posts put together. Thanks again and welcome aboard! :-)

I am a fan of the Wikipedia entry that 'foodie' re-directs to, viz:

"A foodie might easily get caught up in a taco hunt—a search for the best taco stands and trucks in an area. But this would not be an adventure for a gourmet, strictly speaking. Generally speaking, a foodie is a person who has a special interest in food, even foods that a self-identified gourmet would turn his or her nose up at."

Re. "My problem with reading rave reviews about McDonald's and Pizza Pizza is that in my mind, that reviewer loses a lot of credibility in terms of thier(sic) ability to recognize good food - and in turn the site also loses credibilty(sic) in it's(sic)(ARGH!) ability to reccomend(sic)." -- eh.

I could say the same about people who turn their noses up at chip wagons; people who don't understand a quality street potato don't understand a fine dining potato, but. There're _loads_ of people who turn their noses up at chip wagons; some of them are even friends of mine. (Most of them are originally from elsewhere, it seems.)

But what would the use in that be? They probably can still tell me something about potatoes, after all.

Loathesome as I find most of those chain restaurants, there're reasons they're popular, and those reasons aren't entirely risible.

I have a kid brother who works at one, so I end up eating at a notoriously mediocre chain from time to time. It's worth something to me to find out what's good on that menu...

Re. "valuable baseline" -- yes. It's also interesting when it comes to figuring out other people's tastes. If somebody says "the antojitos at the Works are super-hot! Yummers!", I can safely disregard any cautions they might make about excess spiciness. Though it wouldn't make me disregard their reviews of grilled cheese sandwiches.

Finally: I (see 'sic') suggest a larger text input box, and a preview option.

You got it, kmennie... :-)

I increased the default text box size -- it now displays 2 or 3 times more text, depending on context. It won't look wonderful for people who use huge fonts, but it's certainly a benefit to the rest of us.

I had decided to go with an "Edit" button to allow editing of recently posted items instead of implementing a Preview feature. Would Preview be more useful? For longer postings I usually post them, then proof-read, then Edit to make changes. This would be a good time for me to plug the latest Firefox web browser (getfirefox.com) -- it does text box spell checking and underlines in red any misspelled words as you type. I don't usually have a problem with spelling but it's great for catching typos!

Y'know what? This forum topic ASKED for my opinion and I gave it. I didn't think that this forum topic was "What are your gripes about this site? - then me and my friends will totally trivialize and disregard it in a disrespectful way".

Go ahead and rip up my opinion, and make fun of my use of grammar too, hope you have fun doing it too.

Until this site becomes less cliquish and more accepting of those who may have differing opinions, I will not be visiting again. Congratulations on running me out of town - you were very successful.

I'm sorry you feel that way but I guess we can't please everyone.

I've been impressed and very proud of the calibre of the partipants on this site so far. They've been courteous with other users and all communication has been pleasant and conflict-free. This is very rare for an interactive website! We've had some excellent reviews and I respect the opinions of all members.

One tip that might help you integrate more easily with similar sites in the future is to read a lot before writing anything. This was always the golden rule for Usenet and it still applies to interactive web forums. You might find we aren't cliquey at all. :-)

BTW, thanks to you I now know how to cook edamame! I value your contributions, even if you don't plan to continue them. Thanks and good wishes.

This is for "FOOD IS HOT!"

My dear, I am very surprised to see your response to this forum. I don't understand why you were upset about the difference in opinions. Your opinion is appreciated just like any others. But then please understand that every's experience is different.

As Mark said, we can't please everyone. But then you will be a chef one day (knowing that you are a student at Le Cordon Bleu Culinary Institute and I am a fan of Signatures). I believe that a good successful chef will be open-minded to all constructive opinions. Do you agree?

I have been reading your comments. I found yours very unique and linked you to be your fan. So, I don't understand why you are saying that your opinions were disregarded. The forum simply promotes everyone to speak freely.

I let you decide. I was about to say something related to the dining experience at Signatures from the Deans (of a university in Ottawa) so that you can pass it on to the school.

Well its time to beat a dead horse as I drink my wonderful choclatini. I believe there has been a large miscommunication issue here. This is a post asking for gripes, aka criticism about the site. This is asking for feedback, so some was given, it wasn't necessarily left to be negative towards the site but more to what that person feels to be an issue. I'd have to say from reading most of the replies to this, they were less then pleasant and seem to be ganging up on that member. There are lots of claims of everyone is entitled to their own opinion, yet they beat down a negative opinion. Its understandable that fast food places will have reviews and will be disproportionate to family restaurants as there are more of them. As a lover of food, and I admit I'm new to food, its hard to understand how pizza pizza can be considered tasty. I'll eat there if I'm desperate for food, or there is no where else to eat but it would never be my first stop to eat. If you live in the carling Holland area, try a little known place called Carlo's. Looks seedy, arrives quickly and has rave reviews on restaurantthing.

I would love to see this site prosper, but I can't understand the need to beat down someone else's opinion. It looks like Food is Hot got attacked for her opinion and then tried to defend herself only to be attacked again. I mean really, copying someone's else post and quoting it including (sic) is just downright rude..its a deliberate lowblow. I'm sure I will be ripped apart for my opinion now. I believe this is a forum about food not grammar.

Looking at Pizza Pizza's rave reviews from another angle, by gourmand standards they aren't tasty, are low quality but work on low prices. If someone rated Pizza Pizza high I would question they review when they rate another restaurant. I would wonder if they truly knew good food. I've eaten at Beckta, Sur Sur (in Toronto) and many other high class restaurants, yet I still enjoy chip wagons (yum Frenchies!!!!), poutine from Elgin St Diner and other various fast food joints. Try John's on Wellington, another pop diner that uses fantastic fresh ingredients with great service and tasty food. And thats it, fresh quality ingredients, I don't feel that Pizza Pizza offer those.

I find a lot of Canadians to be very stubborn in their food selections, they find a favourite and thats it. It becomes the establishment of choice. My definition of foodie is one who seeks out new experiences in food and enjoys the effort and quality to be found in the food.
Eg Frenchies chip wagon, cheap fries, but they are made in front of you and taste fantastic.
Try the fantastic organic bakery on Wellington beside the Gastropub, they have Lamingtons (an Aussie fav), Aussie meat pies and more. When I look for good food I don't look for outer exterior.. Ok well I do, the seedier it is the better food it has (usually).
Dong Ling's = amazing hot and sour soup yet its a hole in the wall
Carribbean Flavours = amazing jerk chicken that will blow your mouth off yet looks kind of dingy. all of his food is organic and he cooks to order, if you like spice its worth the wait (note medium/mild is closer to hot for most people).

Ok my rant is over, hopefully Food is Hot can be enticed back to the site, although I very much doubt it. She has a lot to share and is very particular about her food reviews. I persuaded her to join the site as I thought it had great potential, unfortunately it seems she has been run out of town by some. :(

Yes the Vendor database is a basic starter, yet the chains keep being mentioned, while I don't agree with a lot of reviews I'd be more likely to listen to a reviewer that tried to avoid Mcd's etc unless it was to say, its what it is, a Multinational fast food Kingdom that serves low quality food...who's to say its not good at times.. doesn't mean it deserves a review that places it in the same league as Dick's, Elgin St Diner, and others

Wow, that was longer than mine! :)

You make many valid points, but I don't entirely agree with the "beating down someone's opinion" part. Opinions are open to challenge in any discussion forum. Considering many of the registered users have at one time or other posted a review of a fast food or chain restaurant, I believe the response here was measured and fair. Well, the (sic) thing was a bit cheeky, but it made a valid and topical point about questioning people's credibility based on possibly irrelevant factors (like command of grammar or an interest in reviewing foods from some chains).

Yes, I hope Food is Hot comes back because she does have a lot to offer. This is the wild world of the internet though so I can't guarantee complete immunity from strife! Keeps things interesting though, don't it. ;-)

Now, I admit this isn't really clear from the topic, but if you go back to my original posting you'll see I was looking specifically for technical feedback about the site. The subjective quality of the site's *content* is not something I will enforce -- that's where the users come in... The only quality control I do is clerical stuff like fixing typos, avoiding duplicate entries, etc.

Thanks again for taking the time to write down your thoughts. Enjoy that choclatini!

All valid points.

I have been a loyal member to this site since its opening. I have to appreciate the effort that Mark put in to create this site for us to share our dining experience. (There were many personal and family hours sacrified to develop this site. Trust me. I used to write software and I know how much time it requires to develop a site like this.)

Let's continue to share our personal reviews. You may sometimes agree and you may sometime disagree a particular review. This is fine. I don't see any issue here. Just like I don't agree with the OttawaXpress's best Chinese category and I submitted my opinion to the forum. I just hope that FOOD IS HOT! will come back. I ordered PizzaPizza for lunch today. You know. There are days that you just don't want to cook and you want something quick with good price. Pizza Pizza serves this purpose. Same reason why I eat "instant noodles" to fix my stomach.

I type fast and I have typo all the times. But if Mark can use some tools to catch it (just like Microsoft Word application), this will be great!

For Foodie in training: I hope you can convince FOOD IS HOT to come back. She had some really interesting posts and I'm sure everyone can benefit from her knowledge.

No one means any ill-will here. I can guarantee that she'll be welcomed back with open arms. I guess this is my version of an appology, if she felt bad by my post, I'm truly sorry.

Plus she has a cool pic!

Yes! As for me, I will replace my photo with one of David Bowie for a whole day if she comes back. :D

You had me at "David Bowie". Thanks for the apology - though not really necessary (gawd I hope that's spelled right for once-necessary that is - I always spell that wrong). I guess I just can't stay away from talking about good food.

How 'bout I jst avoid forum-opinion topics from now on?

Yay! Do you by any chance have a photo of DB eating poutine that I could borrow for a day? ;-)

Problem solved with some pretty bad photo-shopping. You've heard of a Bowie Knife, right? Well this, my friends, is a Bowie FORK! :-)

I'm loving the snakeskin jacket. [I've never tried snake, I wonder how it tastes?]

Well, Mr. Moderator, you've proven you'll sacrifice it all for the sake of an inclusive atmosphere. Bravo!

My only gripe about this site is that it's getting so popular it's taking too much time to keep up on the changes and new stuff. ;-)

Yeah, except this isn't much of a sacrifice.. I'm quite enjoying carrying the Bowie Fork. Take your protein pills and put your helmet on... ;-)

Ahem...to get back on topic (by the way have any of you seen The Prestige yet?)...

My "Remember User" doesn't seem to be working so I have to type in my very long e-mail address everytime I want to log in.
And I have cookies turned on...

corneggs; that happens to me at work but not at home...curious....

Oh, and also I love the idea of the buzz page but sometimes I'm so excited to see what's next so I skip the longer entries but want to come back to them after I "delete" the page.
Is there anyway I can have "read" individual entries? I know it means the page itself will get a bit messy...nevermind...it's 12 and I have an early class tomorrow--I mean today--so don't mind me I'm very tired.

corneggs, having to log in all the time must be annoying! Can you tell me which browser (and version) you are using? The "remember me on this computer" works for me on Windows and Mac using Firefox. I'm pretty sure it worked with Internet Explorer last time I tried it, but I'm not sure which version that was. And Tiana, what are you using at work?

I've heard the Prestige is an incredible movie, and that David Bowie is great in it... I will have to watch it. :-)

As for the buzz page, I deliberately chose to keep things simple by giving each user a "time stamp" for determining which entries are new. (Imagine all the entries written in chronological order and each person gets one bookmark.) I could implement a system where you can tag entries you want to re-visit in the future, but I'm really trying to keep things simple on the surface so it doesn't look confusing. I'll give it some more thought...

Thanks!

I'm using Internet Explorer 6.0.2900.2180 at work.

Hmmm? I'm using exactly the same version at work with no problems. My "Privacy" slider is set to Medium (Internet Options under the Tools menu). There's a possibility that could be the difference.

By the way, when you click "Sign Out" it's supposed to log you out until you sign in again. The "remember me on this computer" only remembers you if you never sign out.

A 2004-vintage version of IE -- not primarily my computer -- here, and, same problem with logging in...

So far so good. I just have a question about adding items to the "desperately seeking" column on the home page. I've added some info on tofu but didn't know how to reflect it there.

The tags seem to work well but I wonder if we should cut back a bit on the options to make navigating page-to-page a bit easier? For instance I can give thumbs up to the restaurant, the food item and the user all on one page when maybe just comments on the restaurant would work? It's just a thought.

Do keep up the good work!

The "desperately seeking" column lists foods that are not yet connected to a vendor. The idea is that, once a food is connected to a vendor, you are no longer desperately seeking it because now you know where to get it!

I saw you added some info about tofu at Arum to the Tofu description, then you added Arum as a vendor of Tofu (thus removing Tofu from the desperately seeking list). I'll move the Arum-specific info you added out of the Tofu description field and into a comment for Tofu @ Arum.

I'm not really following you on how cutting back on options would improve page navigation. Can you elaborate on that? Also, you can't give a thumbs up to a user (or even add a user as a favourite) on the same page as the restaurant reviews... ?

Thanks for your comments! :)

Sorry for the late post. I'm using IE 6.0.2900.2180
The same one as Tiana at work.

Would it be useful or a little overboard to have a category for festivals (like rib fest and beer fest etc)?

I mean, these things aren't available all the time soo...

meh. I dunno.

corneggs, can you check your Privacy Settings (see my message in this topic on Dec 6, starting with "Hmmm?"). I really don't know what to suggest otherwise, since that exact same version of IE works for me. Maybe you have some anti-spyware software that prevents web cookies from "sticking." If so, you might be able to add ottawafoodies.com to a list of approved websites. (I'm just guessing, since I only use Windows at work -- at home I have Macs and Linux).

Tiana, I like the idea of having a tag for festivals. I already have a category for Farmers Markets and those are only open for half the year. I'll add a new category and we'll see what happens... :-)

Ok so here's my thing. I want to add "falafel" as a food item and I will link it to Kamal's but I'm hoping that:

a) people can find me other vendors already entered and link THEM to falafel so I have more choice.

or

b) add new falafel vendors and link the falafel food item to that.

What I'm saying is that I can't find a decent falafel in this city. Every shawarma place insults it. Kamal's is good, Hamie's diner in New Edinburgh is...fine. But please there has to be an outstanding falafel somewhere!! :)

CharityCase, that sounds good. The most effective way to do what you want is to add the food "Falafel" (you did that, good) then post a comment on "Falafel" saying that you're looking for other vendors for that food. That way your request appears in the most useful place, where the right people are likely to notice it.

As soon as I click on an unread thread in the discussion forum, the rest of the unread items lose their highlight.

Last night ottawafoodies was kicking me out every 10 mins or so of idle time, is that normal? I had to keep signing back in.

The first problem is bugging me too but it's a compromise I consciously made. I'm thinking about ways to fix it -- better forum handling might be a nice project for Christmas vacation. ;-)

For now, try reading your unread threads in *reverse* chronological order (start at the bottom of the list). That works fine as long as you don't post anything... give it a shot.

The second problem is directly my fault. I was adding some security code to the site last night and went through a few debug cycles. Each installation cycle would have signed you out. I try to restrict that stuff to quiet times of the night but I wanted to get to sleep! So, no, it isn't normal, but it was expected. Sorry about it! :-)

I found the forum stuff doesn't lose it's highlight as long as you hit the back button instead of clicking the "# forum topics with new posts" link. (And as you said as long as you don't post)

How do I get a 'to try' section on my profile page? That's a useful feature, given how often I'll browse on-line before deciding where to eat -- while having forgotten about the sixteen places I wanted to try last time I was thinking about going out.

kmennie, the "To Try" section on your profile appears once you start adding vendors (or foods) to your wish list. You add them to your wish list by clicking on the "push pin" icon at the top right (next to the "gold star" for marking favourites). If you hover your mouse over the icons, a tool tip pops up and gives you a hint as to what they do.

Handling of unread topics in the forums is now improved: each topic is tracked separately (as you would expect) and when you view a topic any new posts are marked "NEW."

Please let me know if you encounter any problems! :-)

Not a gripe, more of a 'oh I noticed this problem' thing...

Sweetgrass is currently listed under the Top Vendors section, which is great! Except, it also says 'try Dessert'. Only problem is that if you click through to see what rating dessert at Sweetgrass has, you find it is -1!

Perhaps this could be changed to only recommend food@vendor if the rating for that food item is >=1?

Yeah, you raise a good point, Candice! The Top Vendors section lists the vendors that have the most "thumbs up" overall. The top-rated menu item at a vendor is listed on the "try Dessert" line, even if it has a poor rating. Cases like the Sweetgrass one look pretty strange (after all, why does the place have a good rating if they don't have any highly ranked menu items?). Anyway, I think it's best if I just get rid of the "try Food X" line next to the Top Vendors. It isn't terribly useful and is confusing.

I'll keep the "at Vendor X" bit next to the Top Foods though -- that seems to make more sense.

Thanks for pointing this out!

I also seem to be required to log in every time, despite clicking the box. It happens both at work (using IE6.02something and Windows XP) and at home (Safari and Mac OSX).

flyfish, please check out this forum discussion: ottawafoodies.com/forum/94

My work computer won't accept cookies from any of those places, presumably because it's not happy with their privacy policy. But it does accept cookies from other food fora (e.g. SeeMeCook.Com and MouthfulsFood.com)

Mark: Thanks for the revamp of the 'Top Vendors' section! Seeing the top 15 without specific foods linked to them is great. :D

Having a hard time with the site. Regardless of what I do, everytime I leave the site I get signed-out, which is annoying and in truth limits my posting. This is on work and home computers, both Macs and PCs...
Any ideas?

I have the same issue...

LOL, I agree, but I always saw this as a convenience so one didn't forget to log out, a part of the "time out" feature... but as someone who oftentimes minimizes the OF site while I do other things on-line, at times it can be a pain to keep relogging in whenever I want to post something.

hmm same here, but only at work. i think it's IE v6.something?

i use firefox at home and it's all gravy!

We've covered this before and I *think* the solution was to change your bookmarks to be just ottawafoodies.com rather than www.ottawafoodies.com . It has something to do with the site's "login" cookie not sticking because your browser thinks it's from another site. I never use the "www" myself so this was never a problem for me. The use of "www" doesn't really make sense now that the Web is ubiquitous and "http" already indicates the protocol.

Please try it without the www and let me know what happens. Here's the link: ottawafoodies.com

As you suspected, if all is working correctly you should never have to log in unless you've manually logged out or have cleared your browser's cookies...

^ i'll check it out tomorrow FF

you're right my bookmark at home is just "ottawafoodies.com"

My problem is - this site doesn't deliver food (especially the extra delicious stuff everyone takes photos of) directly to my door!

Otherwise, I quite enjoy it. Oh, and nobody uses Yaplet?! People. Use Yaplet!

for the record, removing the www has worked and my account remains logged in.

there goes my productivity!

I've always wished that the 'login success' screen had the highlighted bar at the top that says how many new messages I have, and that there are new forums. Further, not sure whether it's a security thing or not, but from a usability perspective, it would be nice if the default cursor location on the login screen was the user name. I always have to mouse to the login name edit box, instead of every other site that automagicially drops the caret there when you open the page. Too picky?

Chimichimi, I don't even use Yaplet! :( I leave it there because it's harmless, but I consider it to be somewhat of a failed experiment.
monty, thanks for letting me know!
Pete, your wish is my command. It works in my sandbox now and I'll "go live" with it later tonight once there's a lull in site activity.

Awesome FF! You totally rock!

Okay so I've got the cookies working on 3 of 4 CPUs, so good to go. But now the buzz section it at March 2008 entries?? Is there a way to clear that so that it gets to current??

Daft_diner... you want the "Mark ALL comments as read" button at the bottom of the buzz page.

Nice thanks!
(now I feel dumb);)

I love the RSS feed for the comments about vendors, and I would love it if I could get one for the forum too. Possible?

Mers, that's already in place. (Man, I love it when I can say that.) I get a choice of two feeds when I click on the RSS icon, but in case you don't here's a direct link to the forum RSS feed:

ottawafoodies.com/rss/forum

Thanks Fresh Foodie!

Not a gripe but an idea (and this topic came up when I searched "Site layout")...wondering if having "Online now" at the top, then "Recently active" second, then the "Photos/Recent comments" box third (which would align it with "Changes" on the right-side column) would be better.
It would be in my mind. :-)

I can see your point, AMR! I do have two reasons for the current order:

1. I like to see photos of food near the top of the page.
2. The "Recently active" list can look quite chaotic sometimes so I prefer to have it at the bottom.

I understand what you're saying though, and will try to consolidate the Photos and Changes if I ever get around to reworking the layout!

Fresh Foodie: have you ever considered adding tags along the lines of "delivery available" or "cash only"?

These are sort of the nice-to-knows along the same lines as "wheelchair accessible" (does that tag exist?) or "online reservations" that I think a lot of us (or maybe it's just me?) would like to see on the vendor pages.

That way if one is looking for Chinese-Canadian food in Westboro, but wants delievery because they're just too damn lazy, it makes the process of calling up the individual restaurants. The cash-only tag would be useful because I imagine a lot of people use this site right before going out to eat (I do...therefore everyone must, right?). I know I've been caught without cash at Pub Italia or Coriander Thai.

I guess that's my gripe for the month :)

LWB, there's already a Delivery tag for the one purpose you mention. The cash-only tag is a useful idea, although since I can't imagine anyone *looking* for a cash-only restaurant (unless they're trying to spend counterfeit money) the cash-only info is probably best placed in the vendor's Description rather than as a tag. Again, something I can easily add upon request.

How about forcing new user's to choose a user name instead of the default New User XXXX?

Ollie, I like that 'New User xxx' moniker. It makes it easy to ignore the drive by posters... Heck, you could even make it so you ONLY get that name until you've had enough experience points (on the site) to earn a REAL name.

This isn't a gripe, an observation...when I'm finished reading a post in one of the forums, I find it quicker to use the back arrow button on the browser than the forum button on the site? Perhaps its my computer??? Perhaps a geeky-foodie type could explain.

Wow spud guy, great point! Having the stuff at the top also repeated at the bottom would actually be a HUGE help! This is a common problem with a lot of forum software and I'm surpised I have not suggested it yet myself.

zym, the stuff at the top *was* repeated at the bottom for quite a while, but there was some problem with Internet Explorer that was only fixable by removing the second navbar at the bottom. It was a pain to figure out and seemed to be CSS related. I'd love to be able to bring back the second navbar. Maybe I can look into doing it for non-IE browsers only...

spud guy, your observation makes sense because when you hit "back" on the browser it simply loads the previous page from its cache, which is super fast. In contrast, when you hit the "forum" button on the site, your browser sends the request to my server, which in turn runs software that queries the database, generates the page, and sends it back to you.

Is it possible to revisit the idea of more tags for neighbourhoods?

e.g. right now my wife and I would like to go out for supper at the spur of the moment. Would really be nice to get a quick list of places within walking distance, but there is no tag to do that for us. A "Hintonburg" tag would be very helpful.

I second that comment. Because as much as I'm sure that Zym wants a place in Hintonburg, I want to go out to a place within walking distance of Westboro (which is a really big area according to OF, at least for walking).

As a new (again) resident of Westboro I third this!

I would fourth this!! I would love more such as *Preston* *Hintonburg* *Westboro* .. because I definitely wouldn't walk to a place on Bronson from Parkdale for dinner! When I lived on Preston there was some stuff that was a little too far west for us to walk to as well.

*Welcome to the area Ollie!

The location tags are a bit of a pain to keep organized already and increasing the granularity would only make that job more difficult.

I'm thinking a more useful approach might be based on proximity via postal code or even a more visual google maps mashup. Anyway, rest assured that I recognize the flaws in the current location tags and plan to address the problem once time and inspiration make themselves known to me!

Something like that would be great! City Centre drives me a bit bonkers because it covers so many different areas... I end up not trying as many places near me because I end up going to the usual haunts instead.

just a thought, but why not let your gold-star foodies take care of the address updates / entries, as a supplement (if not replacement) to google and your other web-services?

I know (or think) you consider addresses a messy business, but addresses are actually the most stable attribute in this whole mix -- e.g., addresses change less than ownership (etc.), so once an address is entered, it can become a lookup for successors (to the original restaurant), or supply the base address for proximate restaurants. And, once you have address "stubs" nailed down, perhaps you can layer other options on top (e.g., restaurants in this area?).

If you can do this w/ a pure (and free-beer) web-services approach, great. But, in the absence of that solution, why not leverage your human resources to supply the necessary hooks like postal codes, etc.?

I would love to see addresses on the site. I understand the reasoning behind using a link to Google Maps, less maintenance, but way too frequently have I clicked on a Google Map location link that doesn't find the restaurant in question.

I also think that a small group of moderators would be able to handle this task, freeing FF to spend his time on more important site matters.

I agree with letting google handle the addresses because they will do a far better job than we ever will. But there should be a better way to use the google API, which should be able to query whether or not google knows the address, and if not, then have it locally.

I also agree with FF about making better use of google instead of expanding the tags. What would be really fab is having every establishment in here mapped out onto a google map. Then we could just flip to the map and zoom in on the neighbourhood we want, and have a quick visual of restos nearby.

Can you have that by yesterday FF? :-)

Fresh Foodie I appreciate your concern about breaking down the tags into smaller groupings but would you consider narrowing it down a little bit? My pet peeve is the "City West" one since I always consider "City West" as Barrhaven, Nepean, etc. However some of the shops I frequent are Kowloon, New 168, and Lucianos which is a short bus ride/bike ride from my home downtown and I would probably overlook them completely if I were planning a Sunday afternoon shopping trip and looking for somewhere centrally located. Just my two cents...

Fresh Foodie - Not a gripe... but I realized tonight that it might be nice to have more categories in the Forum Topics column... right now we have Food / Vendor but it might be great if there was a Wine topic for all us resident wine lovers (might make searching for wine topics easier).

And knowing full well that the Beer & Alcohol fans might not be happy, although Wine would be my first pick, I suppose we could just call the new category BOOZE
:-)

Ha! You know how my mind works. I was thinking "booze" before I saw your second paragraph.

Is it possible to have a chat box? Or a shout out box? Really, for no other reason that that it is fun...

hey snoopy - there is a chat function! check the main page just above the 'Top Vendors' listing.

you can usually find @chimi holding the channel.

/kick #ottawafoodies monty Respect teh Sysop!

A big thing that is missing I just discovered - very few of the restaurants have a little blurb at top giving a few sentences on the place. Just to give you an idea for what the place is all about. I know that I have always tried to do that myself whenever adding an establishment.

My wife just told me she is taking me out for my upcoming birthday, so I'm trying to figure out where to go. I went through the "Westboro" (cough,cough) list and opened 5 or 6 places up into their own window, but when I went to read up on them, most of them did not have a little blurb. So I still don't really get a feel for what the place is like :-(

Yeah, I could go down and read a bunch of comments, but that first little blurb should be there, and it should tell me enough to know whether or not I want to read down further into the comments.

Agreed. I wonder if people who have been to restaurants that don't have blurbs could send a little blurb to Fresh Foodie in the hopes that he can copy paste where necessary.

I feel the same might be needed for some specialty and ethnic foods.

Maybe he can do something programmatically - have a button that gold members can click on that shows a list of places that do not have the blurb. Then allow a gold member to create one

use the +See something wrong or missing? Click here button to have FF update vendor details

the problem with a blurb or write-up on the vendor is that it can essentially become a subjective review. most of the necessary details are there - website (if avail), location/map, and tags describing the offerings. reviews should fill in the gaps.

Zym & LBW - This is a tough one... Monty is right all too often (in the past) these blurbs have become mini Reviews, either put up by Members not familiar with the OF Format, or Newbies (Owners & such) who have used the space to blow their own horns... it is a "delicate" line between what is acceptable (the original thought process that the space would be an "intro blurb"), and what isn't... Which is why I think that a lot of Members when creating a new Vendor or Food Page just leave that whole section blank... they are at a loss to know what to put in the space.

I myself, try to do a bit of research before I create a New Vendor Page... usually after a visit where I've garnered some info on my own, and then I take a look at their Website and pick up some more info... and sort of combine the two aspects which is why you'll see on entries I've made I typically add something along the lines of... "Compiled from info (and name my source)".

Although I think it would be great if all Vendors and Foods had these "intro blurbs" I think that it would be a fair bit of work to go back and fill in the blanks (although I agree it is something that a dedicated team could certainly volunteer to undertake... I'd be willing to help out)... BUT, it also means a lot more work for Fresh Foodie, as it is, he seems to have to carve out a niche every once in awhile just to get a bunch of the Approvals done for New Pages. Going back and editing, or adding info (which only he can do) means more site maintenance time (something I'm guessing he doesn't have a lot of these days).

It would be nice (IMO) to have contact information (phone number at a minimum) actually somewhere on the page. Same goes for address. Most places have a link to a Google map which is linked to find "'Restaurant Name' near: 'Ottawa, ON'", but sometime new places aren't found, restaurants with multiple locations map all the locations (if found), whereas usually the listing is just for one location...

AD - The topic of Addresses in particular have been discussed several times before here on OF. Here are two links you might find helpful

1) Fresh Foodie's most recent response in this very topic (see June 2nd above) ottawafoodies.com

2) How NEW Restaurants are handled, both before and after the APPROVAL stage, see Forum topic entitled "Addresses of New Restaurants" ottawafoodies.com/forum/173

FYI, anyone who is looking for something within walking distance of a given place, here is an easy way.

Go to google maps and input your address of where you want to walk from. Then just use the search function and search for businesses, and input "restaurant" and that's it.

It will show you a bunch of dots with lettered labels on some of them. On the left bar will be the key code for the letter, and you can page through. But I found it easier just to click on each dot and it will tell you what resto that is. Then you can either read the reviews right within google, or come to this site and read reviews, or both.

Great job you're doing with this website, Freshfood! I used to be a lurker but I see the site has blossomed and taken off. Kudos to you for helping make Ottawa's foodie scene even more vibrant.

My one suggestion for improvement: because of the high turnover in management/cook/wait staff the quality of a restaurant can vary tremendously in a span of a year. However, the current rating system gives the same weight to a "thumbs up" from two years ago as it does to a rating from someone who ate there yesterday.

I don't know how best to address this. Have an expiry for old thumbs? Any thumb older than two years gets a lowered weighting?

Thanks for listening.

ChipDip, that would address your concern, but it would also create another problem. That being that often users don't review a restaurant each and every time they visit it. For example, I go to La Bottega pretty well bi-weekly, and unless I find something new and wonderful, I don't post a review. I also don't post a review if my review was the last posted (personal preference I imagine).

So, if you were to review a vendor two years ago and you still use the site and feel exactly the same about it, your opinion is devalued. Also, a lot of vendors on here have turnaround times that are long and others that have shorter turn around times. Picking an arbitrary time is a bit useless.

The site, you will likely find, is well moderated within its community, and often times people will post when a new manager, chef, or major components of its staff change.

Chip Dip - the ratings are not really a comparative 'best in city' measurement. It's more a measure of how popular it is among the users of Ottawa Foodies. In this light, the high rating just means that many Ottawa Foodies enjoy the place, not that it is 'better' than another because it's number is higher. This is because the ratings are binary, and blind, in that we don't know the trustworthiness of the individual thumbs. The ratings in fact might say more about us, than about the restaraunt...

That being said, it's better to be liked by many, than disliked by many, regardless of whether they like you for your attractive staff, innovative bathrooms, or actually the food!

Good point, lady-who-brunches. The perfect scoring system is an ever-receding target.

Not sure if this counts as a gripe, but I previewed my 8000-characters-exactly "masterpiece" and the last hundred characters or so were truncated out. I'm not sure if this means that they wouldn't be posted if I just pressed "Post reply" instead of "Preview"?

Gripe! Or, more...a question?

Is there a time limit placed on someone transitioning from newbie --> bronze --> silver --> gold?

Has the rating system changed recently??

IMHO, there would be merit in adding something like this. As much as I love it when users join the site and go straight into posting reviews, I found it a bit odd that KatieButtercup, one of the newest users, posted 16 reviews and was immediately ranked Silver (even though she has no favourites yet).

This isn't a gripe about her, or about anyone else who is really involved in the site off the bat and then calms down a bit. It's more about recognizing that one's opinion is more valued (and that is, in part the purpose of the rating system) the longer they are a member.

It seems merely a bit strange that someone who is brand new to the site has the same level of street cred as say, Pasta Lover (who only received her Gold rating recently) or Martha, who have been around for quite a while and have garnered respect from other Foodies.

I noticed the same thing. KatieButtercup posted a number of reviews and presto got a silver rating although she does not have any friends yet and has not participated in any of the forum discussions. Fresh Foodie I thought it was based on a combination of things?....

I'm still waiting for people to favourite me so I can get gold =)

Done snoopy loopy.

Sweet, one day I'll be able to vote... now a question about that... can you mark your own comment as questionable? =)

snoopy.. no you can't. And of course "gold" users are subject to judgment by others.

LWB, as you can see the approach is simple and arguably flawed. On the other hand there's no solution that would satisfy everyone and, let's face it, anyone who posts a whole bunch of comments is by definition making an investment of their time and that shows they care!

My beef with the situation is more the fact that it's quite easy for someone to come in, spend an hour, write 10-15 reviews in that time and has silver status. They're investing time, but significantly less so than other members with silver/bronze status.

Part of the problem with your argument (that they're investing time) is that time has a variable worth.

Sure, 90 minutes is an investment, of sorts, but I also know I've spent half and hour writing a review before (granted, I think this only happened once). Quality or quantity? And is 90 minutes (or however long) in one sitting more of an investment than 120 minutes over a month?

I don't think the system is perfect, and I don't think it ever will be (and I don't think you're touting it as such). But I do think this could be an issue worth revisiting, and if nothing else, it's worth mentioning.

I think Fresh Foodie should track our IPs and grant rankings based on time well wasted here!

Haha. I'm wondering, maybe, if it would be possible for our profiles to display (optionally) the number of reviews and forum posts in addition to votes?

I know there are a lot of people who post in the forum, but don't review and vice versa, and a lot of people who post reviews don't always vote... Just a thought?

I would forum post pad for sure then! =) Nothing says awesome than having the highest forum post count...

In all seriousness though, not a bad idea. It then lends some sort of credibility to what you are saying. Senior posters as opposed to juniors.

I agree with LwB, but will phrase it differently. I don't have a problem with someone firing off 15 reviews in an hour, as it seems to be a newbie thing to do, but it does seem like an easy way to play the system. It would be interesting, if the algrorithm was such, that you need X reviews, spread over a minimum of Y number of days to get to the next level. For example, if it takes 15 reviews to get silver (which seems to be the magic number? ;-)), maybe it should also take 10 days. That doesn't mean that 15 reviews all in the same hour don't count, but the user promotion(from newbie to silver) would not occur until the time limit had also been met. The point of this being, to decouple the user's figuring out 'when' they can get promoted by just cramming more reviews into the site... the feedback would be delayed, so they wouldn't really know when or what caused the promotion. It might also be interesting if promotion didn't occur unless the user was logging in from time to time. Of course, maybe if I complain too much, I'll get demoted... ;-)

Of course, maybe if I complain too much, I'll get demoted... ;-)

Haha. Were that the case, Pete, I think I'd be down to bronze at this point ;)

And, this is precisely what I was trying to say. It's as much the staying power of the user as it is the number of the reviews that should (IMHO, and it is so humble at this point) count.

It begets the question :)

Who cares who is bronze / silver / gold? Other than the awesome power of being able to flag inappropriate material, what does gold buy you? Really, I can't say I put more weight in LWB's comments (sorry LWB) on a restaurant than a newbie. I take the reviews on the merit of their individual content and general tone.

I visit the site 10x a day (loser, I know, but my work is often boring), and post only when I have something either relevant or profound. Neither occurs often. My post count is certainly not a reflection of the amount of time I spend on OF, nor should I think it should be a factor in determining the credibility of my review of a particular restaurant.

Just my two BRONZE-ish metal discs with arbitrarily assigned value.

It's more aesthetically pleasing to be gold =) Silver and you sort of blend in to the white background. Bronze is a bit too harsh. Gold seems to have that nice blend of contrast and complimentary.

Dear Fresh Foodie,

I really, really, really, like the tag feature on Ottawa Foodies. In fact, I like it *so* much that I often like to apply more than one tag. But, it's frustrating to choose two (or more) tags and come up empty handed. Is there any way of doing a preview of how many results one finds with certain tags?

I'm sure I'm the only one who uses the tag function, to be honest, so I don't expect this to be solved anytime soon. But, if FF is really bored one day...

How challenging is it to code in "next page" and "previous page" to navigate through forum topics?

I ask because I've always wondered what topics we've covered in the past, apart from the 30 that are displayed on the forum page.

The search is useful for paging through things, but sometimes I just want to browse, y'know?

Oh, and Google searches of the OF site throw a 403 error, stating something like this:

Your client does not have permission to get URL /custom?domains=ottawafoodies.com&q=black+cat&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=ottawafoodies.com&client=pub-0475538914427546&forid=1&channel=9747156910&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&flav=0000&sig=i22HpXDmZ0XNgOkX&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en from this server. (Client IP address: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx)

We apologize for your inconvenience, but this request could not be processed.

Yeah - browse would be nice

it is actually pretty easy to implement that "next page" stuff.

I don't know if someone has brought this up already (as I am still officially a n0000b) but I find the ways to link to a vendor or foodie in a post to be a little tricky, and I know a little coding. I have clients whose heads would pop off at the thought of having to write code in a post, no matter how simple.

Links in a post make it much more useful, so I'd like to see this made easier. I know you don't have the resources of Chowhound, but when posting on their site, you can search existing vendors and leave a list of links at the bottom of your post.

Just a thought - generally its amazing that you've done all this, I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work!!

Actually he just fixed that one daniella - check this out. I just copy the URL from a vendor, and paste it here :

The French Baker

If you just want to browse through old forum topics, you can just select the "Archives: ALL" at the top of the forum. You get the following page:

www.ottawafoodies.com

and you can just select the month that you want to graze through.

But, Inkling, note that these are sorted by when the forum was last commented upon, not when it began.

Which is why it took me a good forty minutes to find this topic. I was searching for FF's first post in 2006, rather than the most recent one, and in searching keywords, I forgot he had mentioned "gripes".

I agree with Food is Hot. Don't get me wrong, I love this site. I love a site that takes food seriously and to be surrounded by people that like to review food, enjoy food, and discuss it..HOWEVER..when I see AHORA near the top of ratings..it loses credibility...and for a review site, that's pretty huge.

Maybe I am missing something, but I wish that this site kept me logged on all the time because it seems to take a long time for me to sign in when I want to comment on something.

iheartsamosa - your dislike of ahora is completely personal. i do not think the 57 thumbs-up votes ahora has received lose credibility because you personally didn't like your meal. look at the number of fans the restaurant has, your bad experience shouldn't be expected to override the 57 good experiences other people had. this is a fun site, not a professional restaurant review site. what credibility can we lose if we are just here sharing experiences?

Cait: Have you tried the "Remember me on this computer" checkbox?

HFF: Well. Said.

agreed hipfunkyfun

iheartsamosa the problem is simply not enough people are voting. Ahora only has 59 votes! these 59 thumbs-up make it the 2nd highest rated restaurant on the site. that's a pretty small sample. i wouldn't really use the Top Vendors as a barometer for "the best" in Ottawa, so to speak.

Simply speaking from a aesthetic perspective, how long have those photos been used as banners? Could be integrate some of the awesome photos on here (from Cait, Pej, myself, and others) into new random banners? It's a small thing, but I think I've seen that same sandwich/fry platter a hundred times.

My biggest gripe is pretty much the only one that cannot be fixed easily - it is so SLOOOOOOWWWWWW sometimes. Which of course means it is busy. This is a price we pay for success :-(

My gripe is and was always the amount of censorship on this site (it is why I don't use it). These forms are however fantastic in that they are active and a great collection of relevant information.

I know users will attack this post (and I really don't care since I don't visit often). The fact that users are able to completely remove negative comments make the remaining reviews a diluted reflection of how people really feel about vendors.

I suggest you allow such comments to be marked as "questionable" and that you might even grey them out so they are a lighter font when many agree. You cannot however completely remove them in the manner they are removed now if you wish someone like to me to contribute.

Um. Your review wasn't so much negative as not a review, if I recall:
Forum - Ottawa Food Inspection Reports Online

It wasn't removed for being negative, but for not being a review.

Cait: If applicable, try changing your bookmark to ottawafoodies.com (no www in the URL). That seems to fix the problem with persisting cookies.

Yroc: I delete posts extremely rarely, likely less than one per month, and only when they are off topic or abusive. Other users may only delete their own posts, and only when nobody has yet posted a reply.

Zym: I share your gripe about the speed; I don't get preferred treatment so I feel your pain directly. The issue is more with computing power than with bandwidth, and I'm expecting to upgrade the server this year.

Wow, seriously? What the heck are you running on, a 486? :-) Good news at least - as the problem is solvable!

Zym, it's a P4 1.6GHz with 512 Mb of memory. An outdated machine to be sure! I would replace it with at least a dual core CPU and lots more RAM.

You could always try a public donations ledger like the veritable Homebrew Digest!

hbd.org/ledger_table.shtml

They update their hardware and link fairly regularly as I recall.

FF could you change the 'link' codes to allow for upper and lowercase characters? noticed that if i do a link to username using a capital U, it won't show up

ex:

warby
warby

^ there are two tags here - [ [u3] ] and [ [U3] ]

thanks!

Well monty, I'll change it for the 'u' code but it's a little inconsistent because the codes sometimes need to be case sensitive. e.g. [ [ f1 ] ] refers to food #1 while [ [ F1 ] ] refers to forum topic #1.

I find the site really (really) slow and I get frustrated and leave... I might check it once a week or two weeks due being slow. If it was faster, I might be here daily.

@ Fresh Foodie: It's not the posts, but the reviews I am making reference to.

Unless things have changed in the last year, reviews marked questionable by several users disappear. As a result, users remove all the bad reviews making every vendor look good (until you go eat there).

Defeats the purpose of reading reviews on this site.

I think you'll find that the only reviews that get blocked out like that Yroc are ones that seem completely unfair and just someone with an axe to grind. When negative reviews get posted in a fair way they do not get marked unquestionable. And the ones that do, do not get removed they just get blacked out. You can still see them if you highlight them.

Question for everyone: I just added a new vendor (Bio Pizza) filling out all the necessary fields. When I clicked "save" then viewed it I clicked on "website" and "location" to give it a test run. The link to the website works but when I click on "location" it leads me to a marker somewhere in Michigan... Is it possible to change that? Bio Pizza is actually located in Gatineau - their menu looks really good actually - just want to make sure to send everyone to the right place-;)

The "Location" feature simply uses Google Maps to do a search. If a company is listed in the phone directory, this works fine. In the case of Bio Pizza , I don't see any phone listing via Canada411, likely because the restaurant is new.

In these cases, I usually suggest adding the address in the Description field. I've done that now, although if the address is easily obtainable via the website (as is the case here) I like to think that people can figure out where the place is anyway.

Would it not be cleaner to have a manual over-ride for location?

Fresh Foodie Thanks for that! Bio Pizza is definitely new hence no listings in 411.

As for adding the address to the vendor listing I like having it there for two reasons. One reason being that some of smaller places don't have a website so if there is no address in the description it would be helpful knowing where exactly the vendor is located. For example some restaurants in Chinatown aren't necessarily located right on Somerset. My other reason - and a purely selfish one at that - is when I am visiting a neighbourhood and someone on OF recommends a place I like to swing by, check the place out, pick up a take-out menu, etc. It would be helpful knowing where exactly I can find these places. Even a manual over-ride such as zy suggests would be useful. Just my two cents.

So, question... why is it that I can preview nicely a reply post like this one, but I can't preview a New Topic post? Sure, I can edit after, but if someone posts a reply int eh time it takes me to re-read and notice changes need to be made, the Edit button won't work anymore... or am I blind and not seeing a preview possibility in New Topic posts?

This is really trivial, but ... I guess that is the sort of guy I am :)

The login brings you to the welcome screen (posted here). Would anyone have any objection to skipping this screen and having it open to the Forum page directly? I remember reading once that you should get value at every click.

Yeah.. I don't always check the forums, but I always check buzz :)

Going to the buzz is just as good.

It could be settable in your profile, which one to go to.

I understand why FF does not allow you to edit a post after someone else has commented - I've been on a site where one user went into major 'revisionist' mode while engaged in an argument with another user. Yeah, that sort of thing is rare, but I do not begrudge him for doing this.

However, a more reasonable approach might be to, in addition to the status-quo, allow a person to edit their own post up to (say) 1 hour after posting it. No matter whether or not someone has replied to it.

Niall, there's no preview for the first post in a topic because the main point of previews is to prevent the situation where you post a reply and then discover that someone else has already replied while you were typing.

mybluestar, the "Remember me" check box on the sign-in screen is supposed to prevent you from needing to sign in on a regular basis. If this isn't working for you, try changing your links to ottawafoodies.com (NOT www.ottawafoodies.com). That said, I understand your point and may move to a pop-up screen for logins to streamline the usability.

zymurgist, I like your idea of allowing editing within a timeframe, even if followups have been posted. Look for it one day soon! :-)

At work they lock pretty tight the internet settings, they block email sites such as gmail and even the lcbo site. The "Remember me" thus is a "Forget Me".

Is it not possible for the site to link to the buzz or forums directly after logging in skipping the welcome page?

Fresh Foodie, I like the idea of a preview for first post because it would allow me to check more the layout and proper working of links and formatting than it would spelling. :)

mybluestar, I like the "check-in page" because it allows to check mostly if I have messages waiting for me. Like you, work does not allow me to retain a cookie for this site (yet it does for other sites, go fig) so I must log in each time. Mind you, I never get messages or comments, but still, I understand the principle. I like the idea of where you go after login being user-settable.

Can you get rid of the Adam Sandler and Tom Cruise bobbleheads on the left? Enough already!

Sigh.

I'm all for ads still. But man, those are annoying!

Fresh Foodie - I think that there's something going on that's preventing all of my unread forum topics from being displayed. This may be intentional, since not everybody wants to read the whole forum from topic 1 to topic 3000 (or whatever), but it weirds me out that I go look at something and find a forum topic I haven't seen before.

Let's pretend this is a real bug report so I'll write out some steps to reproduce the thing, since I'm terrible at explaining ;)

1. Let's say that I want to find something on Quince.
2. Search for "quince" in the find box in the upper right, click "find".
3. One topic comes up (hooray!)
4. Click on that topic. Read it.
5. Check the next unread topic that shows up at the bottom.

Expected behaviour:

Next unread topic is "Later unread topic - Fresh Brands buys the Works" (that's the earliest unread one I see on the main page)

Actual behaviour:

Next unread topic is "Earlier unread topic - recipe needed: steamed green onion buns"

Is there a way to filter the forum by read/unread status, so that it only returns things I haven't read? I've clicked "mark everything as read" more than zero times, so I'm surprised that I still have things marked as unread.

Hope that makes sense; I can try to explain in some other fashion if need be!

Hmm, thanks for the info. I definitely made some compromises on the forum thing (in the name of improved performance). For example, it only looks forward and backward 30 (or so) topics in time from the current one to suggest the Later/Earlier unread topics. When you are reading recent articles that makes good sense; but less so when you visit an old topic via search. Also, for efficiency, the notification of new forum topics actually only checks to see if you've read the most recent topic. If you have actively ignored that topic, you won't get notification of new topics until there is a newer one that you haven't ignored. But you weren't complaining about that so... ;-)

Given your experience, you must have older unread topics that don't show up on the main page. The problem is therefore with the "Mark everything as read" not behaving as advertised. Now, I just looked at the code and it couldn't be any simpler. It literally goes through every single forum topic and marks it as read by you. Perhaps you didn't let the action finish after clicking "Mark everything as read"? It could take some time to go through all topics. After you see the message, "Caught up reading all topics" it is done.

zymurgist, I also find the bobbleheads to be annoying (although I appreciate the smoothness of the animation). I'm still looking for an ad solution that covers my hosting expenses but doesn't involve receiving money from local businesses. :)

Huh! Maybe? I was pretty sure that I have see the :caught up reading all topics" message at one point or another.

This is delving deep into database-fu that I can't possibly understand, but does it mark everything as read in order of forum number, or just as it runs across them in the DB (which may theoretically not be in order?)

I ask because I went back through the month-by-month archives to see if I could find a pattern in what was read and what wasn't, and didn't see one. For example, I had an unread topic in November 2006 (when I wasn't a member of the site), and four unread topics in April 2009 (when I was most definitely a member of the site).

But maybe those are the only topics that I haven't read yet, you never know! Once I get through these I'll be in touch to receive my platinum rating ;)

that its addictive...stop it! ;-))

'Thumbs down' only appear when a user is signed in - is this normal?

It's normal when they number less than 4'ish. The idea is that one or two thumbs down are not really relevant and should not cause a comment to look bad to casual (i.e. not logged in) users.

Once enough thumbs down have been applied they will become universally visible.

I've noticed the site has been changing. There are fewer and fewer direct contributors and less photos shared and a switch to more blogging users posting bits and using this site as a portal linking to their own more informative and elaborate sites. Nice to see custom work and gorrrrrgeous shots everyone is doing. Really seems like the trend on fashion blogs and others I read as everyone wants to generate some money from ads and traffic. NOt sure its a gripe but I think things are thinning out. MAybe people are cluing in to articles on now to make money from your own blog!!!!!

XOXOXO KC

I agree with KC there seems to be a lot of what I call "drive-by-blogging" going on - people dropping in for no other reason than to pimp their own blog. I am certainly guilty of it from time to time, though most times I reprint the entire blog entry here but provide a link back to the original. Sometimes when I'm rushed I just drop a link. Or if I think the entry is a bit tangential.

Let me tell them something about making money from a blog though - it just doesn't happen. Sure, sometimes. But almost never. My google ads over the last 18 months or so on my 2 sites are about $300. And that is with one site that is one of the best online resources for making your own beer. And that one still generates 5x the income as my blog.

BTW, I never post restaurant reviews because I never go out to eat. Especially now that I am unemployed - but even before then it was a rare thing for me to do.

I did a little write-up under Blogs and Reviews. So you can read my blogger two cents worth there.

Further to the thinness of reviews of late, my eating out has mainly been out of town over the last while. I am guessing no one wants to read about Nick and Nat's, The Bauer Kitchen, Rise and Shine Family Restaurant, etc since they are some 500 kms away. So not relevant to this crowd. My sense is that Kingston is generally considered out of bounds too.

Maybe it is useful to have a 'if you are a blogger and want to share with Ottawa Foodies' manual. Something that helps to not make rookie mistakes and makes the information sharing a win-win for both readerships. I don't have experience with making money from blogs so I don't understand that dynamic well enough to comment on how money making bloggers should conduct themselves on OF in a fair and teamy way.

Some interesting points - thanks. I do not make money from my blog - I just like to write, take sexy food shots and to share them with anyone who is willing to read them (yes, I have an ad on my blog, but it does not generate revenue for me). I was born and raised in Ottawa and love to share my knowledge of our fair city. I do my restaurant reviews to share my experiences - mostly good, with my readers.

I also choose not to post the entire review on the message board as they can be lengthy - so, I put a snippet and if Ottawa Foodie readers like, they can click the link for my blog and read the entire blog and see all the photos. I agree with another Ottawa Foodie who blogs, that sometimes the reader just wants a link to that particular blog and not the ENTIRE content. This might be the case if people just clicked on the blog link attached to the member's profile.

I just wanted to share my $0.02. If the readers here find putting blog links with reviews distasteful, I shall happily cease and desist.

Cheers!

I kinda prefer jojo's approach, just my 2 cents.

I am not sure what Jojo's idea of a snippet is. Just a tickle? A complete but edited version of the blog entry?

As I stated under Blogs and Reviews, I have come to the conclusion that the review being posted by bloggers (of which I am one of them) must stand on its own for completeness. I reader should not HAVE to go to my blog to get the entire story. They can come for extras - maybe pictures/more pictures, flowery prose, some quaint story, etc.

A reader on the Ottawa Foodies site should be able to browse down all the reviews posted for that particular place without exiting out every entry to read someone's blog as they try to follow these 'tickles'. Imagine if every entry for a place was just a 'tickle' snippet? I am sure that would drive me just a wee bit crazy. Also this is very text-based for the most part, so a page load doesn't take forever. I have been to blogs that are heavy on photos and graphics that take forever to load. It just doesn't seem kind to the Ottawa Foodies reader to be going through this site like it is some sort of food blog aggregator. I am fairly sure that this is not its original intent. The set-up here that Fresh Foodie created allows for quick access and the chance to do a skim style of reading thus gleaning a lot of info in a quick pass. So all that to say, I am not for snippets that are tickles but snippets that are complete reviews (whether they are copies of the blog or edited versions, matters not.)

If people prefer reading shorter reviews than longer ones (as raised in the discussion over in Forum - Bloggers cross-posting to OttawaFoodies), might the "snippet" idea that Jojo suggests above be a good way to keep things streamlined?

I envision it as being like the "X topics are hidden" feature that currently keeps long discussions a bit more compacted.

I mean, sure, I like long-form reviews, but if it keeps people happy I don't mind clicking a "read more" link to read long reviews.

That'd be nice, also, still supporting the idea of commenting on comments, such that the commentary is suppressed to just a "X comments" visual cue to show users if there's any discussion on a certain individual's review. KnowhatImsayin?

Fresh Foodie I was wondering if you would consider adding a "back to top" button at the end of each thread? I realize some of the longer ones are - ummm - collapsed (if that is the right word?) Sometimes I want to go back to something that was said in the collapsed part then have to scroll alllll the way back up to continue/log out/whatever.

Pasta lover you are reading my mind! Earlier today I was wondering how I could find this very thread so that I could make a similar request! It actually needs all the same links across the top to be across the bottom as well

zymurgist Great minds think alike! Now if we can only persuade Fresh Foodie to add such a button...

warby would rather see an artificial limit on the length of a forum discussion... I kind of expected people to start new discussions rather than keep adding to old ones. After all, nobody wants to go back and read 180 posts. Perhaps controversially, I'd argue that once 50 people have posted under a topic, there is nothing useful left to say.

Oh crap, did I just refer to myself in the third person? :-O

I know I'm beating a dead horse but the Location link on a good amount of vendor pages redirects me to something like this:

"Your search for "The Burbs Pub" near Ottawa, ON, Canada did not match any locations."

...which is exceedingly frustrating.

I understand the idea behind leveraging Google Maps but I don't find it works in practice. Would it be possible to add an address field to the page, maybe in addition to the Location link?

Granted there would be a lot of back-fill required but at least new entries would be ahead of the curve.

The vast majority (80+%) of Location links work. For the remaining 20% you will find a link to the Webpage that always contains location information. There are probably fewer than 5 approved entries where both of these fail, and in those cases I have put address information (if I can find it) in the Description field.

So in the cases that need it, the address is in the Description field. Please let me know if you see any that are missing via the See something wrong or missing? link on each vendor page.

This isn't as much a gripe as a question, regarding the Thumbs component. I've noticed that sometimes, the thumbs shown (up or down) are different when I just visit the site without logging in, compared to when I've logged in with my userid. In particular, I "thumbs down"'ed a post, and when I review that forum topic while logged in, I see my thumbs down "coloured" along with another thumbs down (total 2), and there is 1 Thumbs up. But when I come back to the site without being logged in, only the 1 thumbs up is shown, and the 2 thumbs down have vanished. Is there a reason for this? FF, do you "approve" thumbs up/down, and my disapproval of the forum post was itself disapproved? Or is it some weird technical glitch?

Regarding location, I would love a gmaps app that plotted all of the vendor entries with the little flags. I find fairly often I am heading out on an errand to a part of town I rarely frequent, but swear there is a recommended resto... and I can never remember what it is or how to find it quickly.

You don't see thumbs down against you unless there are 3 or more. Fresh Foodie told me this was intended to keep tempers down or something like that. Prevent tit-for-tat contests.

I still wish the whole thumbs down thing would go away. If you disagree with someone, tell them so and tell them why. Don't just click a disapproving icon and then move on with your day.

I wonder how many clicked thumbs down on your post just for iorony there? Personally, I dunno, but I don't like how cynical everyone seems to be of new reviewers. I know, we do get a fair number of shills, or trolls, but still. I'm sure we've driven off alot of new users by being immediately suspicious. Maybe, I dunno, after two weeks and no furthur posts/reviews, then we can start the castigation? Not jump down everyone's throats right away?

James C., I invite you to join me in giving a thumbs-down to those who unfairly slam new reviewers. :-)

I've been using Reddit a lot lately. The thumbs up/thumbs down is very similar to the Upvote/Downvote.

Currently, posts are sorted chronologically. Perhaps to make the thumbs more relevant, you could add the option of sorting by popularity, i.e. highest net thumbs up.

The difference being that Reddit is presented in such a way as to support multiple thread responses to an initial post. Re-ordering OF, particularly on a factor as unreliable as coward clicks, would render conversations unreadable.

I find myself looking for a thumbs down button on Facebook and RedFlagDeals...not that I use it very often, but the odd time I would like one. Mind you, the last time I read the Citizen paper, I found myself looking for ctrl+f...

not a gripe per se, but really wish there were a mobile app. Android.

I really wish there were a mobile app too. I've toyed with the idea of writing one (for iPhone) but it's a sizeable undertaking and it would be platform-specific, which kind of sucks. Not to get your hopes up anytime soon, but if I do anything mobile, it would likely be a mobile-optimized website at this point.

The problem is that the regular website is *just* usable enough on a mobile device that I haven't been able to convince myself that a mobile site is necessary. :O

Fresh Foodie, I think I will do that, and I encourage others to do so too. Also, I wish I had skills to code android apps, cause I'd offer em free of charge, because I'd love having this site on my phone. Cause if I was in a certain area, I could open it up, and check what restaurants are good around me.

Is it just me or is this site craaawwwwllling recently. I don't notice other web sites being this slow, so I don't think it's my ISP. Someone needs to feed the hamsters running on the little treadmills. Run faster hamsters!

Right now at 9:37 am Sunday it is lightning fast, but yeah it is often pretty slow

It varies a lot for me too... there are times I'm waiting for a page to load and thinking "Oh man, people must hate this!" and other times it really is like lightning.

The performance seems to be highly dependent on the number of people accessing the site. Stop telling your friends about us! Hahaha... okay I'm off to make hamster food. Hamstir-fry?

FF do you monitor site stats with something like munin? To be certain there is a coorelation between the slow times and high use? Munin is really easy to install and dirt easy to write plugins for too. e.g. you could write a simple plugin for # users

EDIT: could also easily plot page load times provide the language you use for the site implements something like that, the way PHP does

The ads on the left should pop out a new tab instead of stealing this one.