Ottawa Food Inspection Reports Online [General]

2009 Apr 15
Awesome.

ottawa.ca


2009 Apr 15
Ollie - amazing, my SO just told me about it. Thanks for posting that!

2009 Apr 15
not sure if i want to read some of these...

best one so far:

No room with food used for sleeping purposes
* No food preparation or storage area is to be used for sleeping

tinyurl.com/cvyxct

2009 Apr 15
Ollie- thanks for the link. I can't wait for more of my locals to be auditted. So far, looks like we've dodged some bullets... but it is surprising how many local institutional daycares are non-compliant.

2009 Apr 15
Fantastic!!! I've been wishing for this for a long long time. Thanks ollie!

This is a very good way to make restaurateurs take food safety seriously. It also helps taxpayers see some value for their money.

2009 Apr 15
about time!

2009 Apr 16
Read some of the Somerset street resto's inspections and was concerned that they do not meet with compliance, they do not state if problems have been solved so we could not be geting acurate information.

2009 Apr 16
Fantastic, thanks!

2009 Apr 16
Da Butcher, is that your kitchen? heehee

2009 Apr 16
Wow. I am thrilled to see it. I'm up there but my report isn't yet. I've been inspected and passed since January? I'm sure it'll post soon.

I could spend hours looking at the info there. For example, all the Wendy's in town passed but the one on Bank. They had a refrigeration problem that was solved at the time of inspection. As disgusting as fast food is...it is usually 'safe' food...

My instincts have proved right too. There are places just behind me on Somerset that I wouldn't set foot in that have major problems. One was improper disposal of liquid waste...yuck.

I saw an up coming newsflash last night so don't know the source but there is a youtube type video out there of kids working in a domino's(I think that was the uniform) sneezing on a sub and flicking boogers. It made us both gag, and my bf said we are never eating out again...a little drastic. But there have been plenty of times we have eaten at home not just because it's cheaper and I make it better, but because of the things I have seen that the health inspector would never catch or is even expected to look for.

Being able to check a places inspection report will definitely get us in the door.

The OliversRock Process for selecting a restaurant:

Step One: Check Ottawa Foodies Review

Step Two: Check Health Inspection Report

Step Three: Look at restaurants web site.
A)Try to find a pic of kitchen or kitchen staff. B)Review menu online. Analyze for slow sellers and if the menu is too big for the size of the place. If I'm going for the house special I'm not as worried.
B)Also look for evidence of convenience food, I don''t eat it at home so why pay someone else to make it for me.

Step Four: Site visit (also known as dining out).
Honestly I didn't realize I am this bad until writing this but I check the corners of the dining room and have even been known to check out the washroom before ordering. (If the public loo is gross the place the staff is expected to use is a million times worse, never mind that the kitchen cleanliness is in serious question).

Step Five: If on that trip to the loo I can peek in the kitchen I will. I look at who is working. ( I worked with a guy who had a 6 inch goatee, and didn't wear a chin net. I had nightmares of someone finding 'pubes' in the food). I also clock the work surface for anything that is sitting out that shouldn't be, and for general tidyness.

If you think I am really nuts, consider that on my first day at one job I found a box of eggs in the fridge that had expired three months before! And the same woman tried to convince me that one week old pollack fillets were 'still good'. At another place they cooked the hamburgers at three days old and then just reheated them for the next four. I had to admire that, although it was too gross for words, it was actually within guidelines. The fact that the potato peeler was hidden in her garage and ran off the garden hose was not though.

If I can look at the menu with appetite after all that, then we get into whether the food is actually good or not. LOL

2009 Apr 16
cakelady usually inspection does a follow up visiting within 3 months, unless the problem can be corrected on the spot (ie. no paper towels in the dispenser).

what really shocked me was that yangtze is storing food less than 15 cm off the ground (ottawa.ca). i can't wait to see how other restos fair.

2009 Apr 16
glad to say my resto is not on the list
I gladly greet my inspector every 3months or so on his regular swing by
theoretically it's supposed to be every 3 months but it's more of a quarterly cycle whereas it's whenever the computer throws a dart at the list of resto's
once last year, Robert, the inspector in my area stopped by in July then again early September
kinda keeps us on our toes
Have always had no deductions at this establishment and only one in last 5 years which was due to the building replacing a hot water tank that day and setting the temp way too high
BTW, LWB, follow ups are supposed to be 2 weeks after the inspections
inspections every 3 weeks

bit of FYI for peeps, the farther away from the downtown core a resto is, the least frequently they are inspected
while they will deny it, the inspection territories makes going to resto regularly difficult and they tend to respond to complaints more than do actual inspections

the food safety service is sorely undermanned
Last year, when Robert when on holidays they had to borrow and inspector from another city to do his territory

2009 Apr 16
Poutine> haha, nope not mine, google search "dirty kitchen"
That photo reminded me of moving into a place in dawson city yukon when housing was tough to get. I cleaned tha dump for 5 days before moving anything in!!!

2009 Apr 16
I'm so glad they've made these public. I was just thinking about it last weekend when Mr. Nanookie was getting a sandwich in the market, and not one of the employees was wearing a hairnet or hat. I didn't even want to think about what else they were doing wrong!

I really want to see a follow-up on Vietnam Palace. The food is so good, but the things in the report gross me out.

ottawa.ca

2009 Apr 16
it's great to have this info available. i like your own restaurant inspection checklist, OliverRocks. some of the restaurants i was wondering about weren't up yet, but i'm sure in time, they all will be. this was a big story on cbc radio news today.

2009 Apr 16
chef obi, you're right i did mean to say 3 weeks for follow-up, because that was the practice that i was familiar with.

however, i do believe that inspections are to be done on a regular, but unpredictable basis. whereas you make it sound like you know when your inspector is coming.

also, unfortunately only the inspections from january 2009 to the present are being made available at this point. i'd love to see how various restaurants pass/fail over time :)

2009 Apr 16
the city is doing a huge push for food inspectors right now, its seems theyve dropped the ball and lots of inspectors are really unsatisfied with their pay grade. there are only a few schools in ontario that offer food inspector certification/diploma program ( you can also take an diploma program in environmental health ). there was a article in one of the local papers the other day about it, it seems that the city is willing to subsidize the cost of student fees if they commit to working for a certain amount of time afterwards. coincidently macmaster has just announced the distance education program for their environmental health diploma program ( this would allow you to work as a health food inspector from what ive read ).

seeing as im done my degree this summer im thinking of applying in september, its equivalent to one full year of a bachelor degree I believe..
I cant find anything on the city website about the student subsidy program if anyone has any info on who to contact about it definitely please drop me a line.

thanks!

sv.

2009 Apr 17
LWB
I go about business as if the inspector is coming every day
once you start practicing good habits it's easy to maintain
it's correcting bad habits that is difficult
and many a new workers I've had to point out certain matters to
ie letting dishes air dry rather than wiping them dry with a rag
(which seems to be a common practice up here :s )

2009 Apr 17
Obi - to true. The laws aren't there to annoy us in the kitchen but to protect people. Jeeze. I was working in a B&B out in the sticks North of PTBO. We got inspected once a year. Usually right before the snow, so we had the whole busy summer to kill people if something really was wrong.

One day I had just finished washing my hands and used up the last paper towels. The inspector literally hit me with the kitchen door as I was running down to the basement to get some. Chef and I had to good naturedly argue with him that we weren't out of towel when he got there. To 'punish' us he let the towels go but he said our pots and pans shelf needed a new coat of paint! It was pretty funny.

Obi - How come no one turns off the taps with the paper towel they used on their hands? I thought it was common practise? You just contaminated the tap, right?

2009 Apr 17
So which is better? And why? Air dry, or rag? Not clear from your comment Obi.

2009 Apr 17
OliversRock - I have a HUGE issue with cross contamination, be it from or to food, and with clean to dirty and vice versa. It comes from years of working with Youth Camps, where they are really strict about food handling and cleanliness rules (like the 3 sinks to wash dishes, and storing meats at the bottom of the fridge, etc).

Anyways, suffice it to say, I run things pretty much the same at home... I literally go thru a lot of paper towel (can't stand dishtowels, dishcloths etc). It will be a good day when the Green Box Program gets underway in Ottawa LOL.

Years ago when I was much younger I used to work in a restaurant, I shudder to think at some of the things I saw. Girls brushing their hair in the kitchen, people handling the garbage and then serving a customer without washing their hands, etc. But some things were just not being taught properly... for example, many a day the dishwasher was on the fritz, or people were too busy to load / unload it, so lots of times the working tools (pots, pans, slicers, knives, etc.) just got sprayed off with really hot water... no soap... and well I don't want to know about the food particles that stuck on, dried on, and stayed on to see another day. The dishwashing sinks were for famous for being used for everything but dishwashing... it was routine for people to spray out the garbage cans and then stand them upside down in the sinks to drain... why do this (easy)... if you used the proper janitorial sink (which by the way was all of 5 feet away at the other end of the room) you'd actually have to work at getting water into the garbage can (not to mention adding soap or disinfectant).

Funny thing... this place always passed Inspections... of course the place looked ship-shape... it was not so much the cleanliness of the place as the cleanliness practices that were lacking... and unless one was there when it happened, one would never know. Needless to say I don't eat there.

As for the Inspection Reports... I looked up a couple spots I like... a few of them are "non compliant" I see, when I read why they all seemed to have minor infractons things like - dusty baseboards, and another had not cleaned under the stove. Those two make me laugh... I may cook in a kitchen with spotless counters, and a clean fridge, but gosh don't look under my stove.

;-)

2009 Apr 17
Zy - It is illegal in Ontario to towel dry dishes!

Stuff that comes out of a proper industrial dishwasher is dry as soon as it is cool enough to touch. But the stuff out of the under the counter sanitizers stays wet for ages. Standard practise is to grab a clean towel and dry that stuff (the logic being any invisible schmuck on it that you are smearing around to the next plate is already sanitized too, I guess.) But you really are supposed to let the rack dry.

However, I have never understood how glass and cutlery polishing are okay. It's the same thing.

2009 Apr 17
Obi - I sous-ed in a kitchen on a resort where my kitchen had everything going but the hot water. They had renovated an old farm house and it was now the fine dining place.

The work crew came over in the aft, while we had been preping like crazy and turned off the cold water too.

And broke it.

Friday night.

Full Bookings for opening night.

Plumbing store 2 hours into PTBO.....

So they brought us jugs of water to wash our hands and we sent all the dishes over to the main kitchen in bus bins in a pick up truck! I can imagine what the inspector would have thought of that!

2009 Apr 17
Yikes, I'm not sure I'll ever eat at the airport again

2009 Apr 17
rdmsgirl - Not sure I follow the airport comment (having not read the full report), perhaps you could supply a link.

I am however still in shock with the entry that Monty referenced... that is one place on the DO NOT TRY LIST (and so noted on my Profile Cross References).

2009 Apr 17
O'sR;
thanks for fielding those questions while I was at work

as for the handwashing and drying question: it's mere laziness or ignorance as to why peeps dry their hands with the paper towel then toss it and turn off the tap

I dry then use the soiled papertowel to turn off the tap
if in the lew, it is also used to open the door before discarded
just an old habit from days when I thought I wanted to be an MD

the silverware and glases, ditto
dishrag issue is once used always contaminated til sanitized again and the dishrag is rarely ever used on dishes first
I've sent home cooks for wiping their faces and hands with the same dishrag they wipe down their stations with
then send them to a Sanitation course ASAP

My suggestion to all chefs and chefs in training or joeshmoelinecook: Take a Tuesday off and take a sanitation course!
no arguement no denial no hmming and haa-ing

F&T, personally I don't care for the 3 sink method
why?
I prefer, the rinse sink to be empty and the dishes rinse with free-running clean water
detergent can build up in the rinse sink and over a certain concentration can cause the runs similar to food poisonings (ergo, so can it build up in the sanitation sink, just a personal quirk and some baggage left over from a relative that never fully rinsed dishes

Zym, whether sanitized by high temp or chemical (ie bleach, oxygen or silver), until it is dry, it can be contaminated far easier than if it is dry

(nothing takes into account, dust particiles or fruit flies as the plate sits there waiting to be used but meh


2009 Apr 17
Food and Think - I just started reading all of the reports, starting with "A" - Airport restaurants were among the first few :)

2009 Apr 17
Actually, my gf worked at the airport for a couple of months, and when I showed her the online reports, she said that's one of the reasons she left. Just ONE. People aren't properly trained there. There are a few stories she has told me, but I will spare you guys...if you wanna hear a few, just PM me.
Most of the concessions share the same kitchen, so most of the infractions are one in the same.

An airport isn't really a place you want to have a nice lunch or dinner, but now I am guessing a lot of you won't even risk eating a Timbit there.

2009 Apr 17
I wish we had the same system as Toronto. They post on the front door/window whether a restaurant has passed or failed. While it looks a little gaudy, it certainly comes in handy and gets places to clean up their acts FAST.

2009 Apr 18
Obi - I hear ya, it is just is the 3 sink method we were supposed to do at camp... at home I'm a scrape, rinse, wash, rinse, air dry kind of gal... if and when I'm not using the Dishwasher, which of course combines all 5 functions.

As for fine glassware, I usually end up handwashing those, rinsing and letting air dry. I find that if you do it properly the first time then spots and lipstick are never an issue.

2009 Apr 18
LOL- just flew out of Ottawa today. Fortunately, all I ate there was a diet coke and a bag of pretzels.

2009 Apr 18
Great information, ollie!

Out of my curiosity, I found that the following restaurants are not compliant to the safety standard AT THIS TIME:

PHO BA GA 2
ottawa.ca

PHO MI BO GA
ottawa.ca

PHO THI FUSION RESTAURANT
ottawa.ca

VIETNAMESE KITCHEN
ottawa.ca

FUSCHIAN VIETNAMESE RESTAURANT
ottawa.ca

MONGOLIAN HOT POT
ottawa.ca

MEXICALI ROSA'S (the one in Orléans)
ottawa.ca

D'ARCY MCGEES (the airport location)
ottawa.ca

TUCSON ROADHOUSE
ottawa.ca

MEKONG
ottawa.ca

JADELAND
ottawa.ca

BEN-BEN RESTAURANT
ottawa.ca

CATHAY RESTAURANT (LOWER)
ottawa.ca

ROYAL BUFFET
ottawa.ca

WING HING CHINESE FOOD
ottawa.ca

KOREA GARDEN
ottawa.ca

TOTOYA
ottawa.ca

HINO
ottawa.ca

Made in Japan (2 locations)
ottawa.ca

BOKO BAKERY
ottawa.ca

BOMBAY GARDEN INDIAN CUISINE
ottawa.ca

HORN OF AFRICA
ottawa.ca


2009 Apr 18
That's a solid list there, Ashley.

My own criticism of the site is that they don't allow you to search by any other variable besides area and keyword. So, I can't just search for non-compliance. And I can't search for a restaurant by area and then by when their last inspection was.

Which brings me to the second point: While this list is extensive, it is not exhaustive. There were several restaurants that were inspected prior to January 2009 which do not have their information online at this point. I imagine this list will be much more fascinating in the next few months as more inspections are added and we see how some of our favourite fare.

Another thing that could be potentially useful, and I don't know if this is an avenue down which Fresh Food wants to venture, but there could be an opportunity to include a link to the vendor's inspections on vendor pages. Whether or not that's too much watchdog, I'm not sure (plus I don't know how frequently one would have to update such links).

2009 Apr 18
EDIT / REWRITE

At first I thought that the list that Ashley provided was for just the Restaurants that have been described as being "Non-Compliant" in the FOOD SAFETY (Critical) Category... Which is what we as Customers would be most interested in.

However, the aforementioned list seems to be incomplete in some aspects, in that it lists some Restaurants and not others (when it comes to Non-Critical Issues).

When it comes to these Inspections a Vendor can fail either on FOOD SAFETY (Critical) or be found to be "Non-Compliant" in other (Non Critical) categories, such as maintenance.

Of the list that Ashley has provided, only the following Vendors were found to be Non-Compliant when it came to FOOD SAFETY (Critical):

*Pho Mi Bo Ga
*Vietnamese Kitchen (so bad they were closed)
*D'Arcy McGees (Airport)
*Tucson Roadhouse
*Jadeland
*Ben-Ben Restaurant
*Royal Buffet
*Wing Hing Chinese Food
*Boko Bakery
*Bombay Garden Indian Cuisine

The remaiing Vendors on Ashley's list (along with several others in the database) were deemed to be "Non-Compliant" on non-critical issues.

2009 Apr 18
Thank you for being a voice of reason F&T, on "non-critical" maintainance issues. I've been cringing for restaurant owners ever since these inspections have become available online - not because the public doesn't have the right to know, but that the general public does not nessecarily understand what they are looking at when they read the report, and there is therefore much room for sensationalism and misunderstanding of how serious (or not) "violations" are in relation to thier food. I wrote a response to a review in the buzz section that renounced a restaurant that had recieved "non-compliance" on a a couple of issues, nd I felt compelled to set the record strait for those who do not work in restaurants and do not neccesarily have an inside view of what these "violations" really mean. Sorry to re-post, but I felt it was important to explain these nuances in the forum as well for those that don't read that particular review. Enjoy:

To be fair - the issues cited in this inspection are non-critical non-food related issues, havng to do with maintenance, and do not nessecarily indicate that there are unsafe practices going on. For example, a kitchen that is not equipped with a separate hand-washing sink (as deemed ideal by this governing body) will be marked as non-compliant unless they install one. This does NOT mean that the staff does not wash thier hands at one of the other sinks, it just means that the restaurant does not have the suggested "special hand-washing" sink that is deemed ideal. The suggestion on the inspection report would probably state something like "Ensure proper hand-washing procedures are regularly followed to prevent contamination" - again, this does not mean that the staff are NOT already alredy washing thier hands, it is a request to ensure that extra special care is taken based on the abscence of a "special" sink.

In the case of this specific inspection report, one offence cited is that they do not have the ideal "dipper well with running water" and it is suggested that they therefore take extra care with thier set-up to ensure there is no bacteria growth - again it is NOT stating that they are keeping thier equipment in a bucket of sewage currently, it is just pointing out that the set-up is not ideal and extra care will need to be taken. The other issue cited is a floor problem - this could be as small as a few tiles being broken or a puddle of water on the floor - which does not affect the food at all - remember that these inspections also take into account the safety of the employees, so non-compliance does not automatically mean non-compliance in relation to your food - it could just mean that there is a tripping hazard somewhere for an employee.

2009 Apr 18
FOOD is HOT - No problem. I thought it important that if we are going to read and discuss these Inspection Reports here on the OF Forum, that is important that everyone understands what they mean.

As for Non-Critical vs Critical... as I said earlier I am less concerned about non-critical issues at a place that I eat (usually maintenance) than I am about FOOD SAFETY (Critical). What goes on with my food, and it's preparation, is very important to me... and ulitimately, that will make or break my decision to eat somewhere... having dusty baseboards, probably not.

When it comes to FOOD SAFETY (Critical), I remain concerned even if the issue was "corrected" while the Inspector was present. For me that is a "Red Flag" about a place's practices of food handling overall. To me, it signals that either they are sloppy in their practices, or they don't train their staff well.

What I think is most important, is places that have larger ongoing violations, or those that are not immediately corrected. These most definitely will have me concerned enough to change my habits of being a patron.

As to whether both types of "CRITICAL" FOOD SAFTEY issues should be linked to a OF Vendor's Page is up for debate I suppose. As I said, Issue One for me is a "Red Flag", Issue Two means I won't visit. But I am concerned about the "permanence" of such links on the OF Vendor's Page... what if the problem has been corrected? Or the Inspection Report is an old one... will the Inspection Reports be linked together by the City of Ottawa so that we know what the issue was in the past, and that it has been rectified. No one wants the possiblity of holding to old info a year from now, especially if it is no longer relavent.

Where I think we'd all agree is that IF a location is deemed by the Inspectors to be FOOD SAFETY (CRITIAL - UNSAFE CLOSED)... then that info should be put up on the OF Vendor's Page and we should keep an eye on what happens afterwards... Does the Restaurant Clean-up their act and Reopen, or do they close-up shop. If they Reopen, I think it is safe to continue to monitor them on their OF Page.

Just my thoughts.

For the Record, the only place that I am aware of so far that falls into the last category is Vietnamese Kitchen - Vietnamese Kitchen and from what I can see on the Inspection Report they are CLOSED. No info on whether they are still closed, or have reopened.

Anyone live or work in the area? Any news as to what appears to be happening over at the Vietnamese Kitchen ?

2009 Apr 18
F&T-

I think Vietnamese kitchen is actually closed due to fire damage from the Tommy and Lefevbre fire. I walked to Arum Thursday and noted that VK looked in rough shape.

2009 Apr 20
Food&Think Vietnamese Kitchen did in fact close because the premises was affected by the fire at Tommy and Lefebvre as Pan Bagnat noted. However on the subject of their food I am not surprised at the failing grade in the health inspectors report. I used to eat there regularly from the day it opened until about three or four years ago. Although the food was not spectacular it was pretty tasty IMO and reasonably priced. However the last year or so I frequented VK the soup (and a number of the main course items) was getting pretty greasy and the spring rolls (my favourite item) were not as good as they used to be - the wrappers were a little dried out and the filling ingredients not as fresh. It will be interesting to see what happens to the menu if/when the re-open.

2009 Apr 20
VK's last inspection was March 31. The day after the fire. Whether or not it was in compliance before then is difficult to say because the reports filed prior to January 1 are not only.

Pasta Lover (and others...) I can understand that the quality of the food has gone down, but I don't think that correlates to their food safety practices necessarily. MacDonalds, Starbucks, et cetera all produce mediocre (although occassionally crave-worthy) foods but they're up to snuff. Similarly, I can attest to vendors not being to code, but that their food was gourmet level. To assume that not complying with food safety correlates to poor food quality is unfair to the restrauant owner.

2009 Apr 20
Lady Who Brunches - LOL did I read that right...

"VK's last inspection was March 31. The day after the fire."

I'd be guessing that the "wrappers were a little dried out" (as per Pasta Lover said)... sorry I couldn't resist my wacky mind just connected the two posts.

:-)

2009 Apr 21
lady who brunches you make a good point. I guess I was just used to their food being of a certain standard and on my last few visits they just didn't meet my expectations.

Food&Think LOL! I missed that as I was typing my reply - maybe they are going for a more bbq'd style?-;)

2009 Apr 21
Sorry I didn't have time to read this entire thread so this might be redundant, but here is a related story about the alleged unfairness of the website:

www.ottawasun.com

2009 Apr 21
mmmfood not redundant at all. I just wish something like this was published in the Citizen (Ron Eade? Where are you?) that is a bit more widely read, and highly regarded.

While I think that health and safety inspections are a vital part of regulating the food industry, how much of this comes down to job creation? How critical is what they are considering to be critical, or non-critical? General housekeeping? We've all been to places that have nasty washrooms, or gum under the table, but where the food is well cooked, in regards to both taste as well as sanitation.

2009 Apr 21
Mmmfood - Interesting article, thanks for sharing, as I hadn't seen it.

Ok here is my take...

I don't see the Website as being "unfair"... what I think is "unfair" is that the Public isn't told how to read, understand and interpret what the Reports are about (see lots of previous discussion here between myself and FOODisHOT). In the very least there should be a preface at the beginning of the WebPages to explain what they are, and how they work... what do the ratings mean?

Also, based on the article in The Sun if the Vendors themselves are unaware of what is said in the Reports... then that is "grossly unfair". The article said that the Restaurant had always had an excellent record in the past, and had all their "certificates" signed off by the Inspector to prove it. Yet with the change to Internet Reporting, they no longer receive a Certificate (or any sort of Confirmation of the Report) if that is true, that is just wrong. It isn't "fair" to find yourself Non-Compliant (Housekeeping) on the Internet along with everyone else... nor is it fair not to be told why you were "Non-Compliant" at the time of the Inspection.

The more I think about it, the more I think this whole project need some reworking.

Leave it to TPTB at City Hall to screw up something that could have been so relatively simple!

2009 Apr 21
The funny thing is that most people commit worse crimes in their home kitchens.


2009 Apr 21
good point, Pan. I'll echo Trudeau's words -- keep them inspectors out of my bedro ... er, kitchen.

my own criminality noted, i wasn't going to comment on this thread (much better insights above), but i'll simply lend my support to Mrs Le and echo the Ottawa Cit. article's perspective. I mentioned in my own review here that she runs a tight ship, and i can attest (as a customer for 4+ yrs) that her's is a restaurant i'd feel very comfortable bringing anyone to.

2009 Apr 22
On the note of worse crimes, I'm going to bump another OLD thread that I saw while searching for that other info ... just a sec

2009 Apr 22
One thing I'd love to see them do is implement a definition box that pops up when your cursor hovers over the infraction, so you get an immediate explanation of what that type of infraction entails. Not redirect to a definitions page or a help page, but something immediate that the person sees right away.

They already added the disclaimer, which they didn't have the first day. Hopefully that means that the City is truly interested in promoting this as a public education tool.

2009 Apr 22
Nanook - Yes I logged in for a couple of days running, the disclaimer (click here to accept these conditions box) was added later. Lets just hope that the Reports remain both User and Vendor friendly, and they serve a positive purpose in the end.

2009 Jul 30
I'm bumping this forum topic up as there has been a lot of discussion about food safety in Ottawa lately, in both the forums and the reviews.

Personally, I do not see a link with commentary about the vendor's most recent inspection to be the equivalent of a review. In fact, it's not. You're review an inspection that was performed, that people can access if they choose.

I think that this type of information belongs in the general information of the vendor, and not in the review section. It has nothing to do with my trust or issues with public health inspectors (disclosure: I work in Public Health currently, and I have the utmost respect for PHIs). It has to do with the fact that inspections are unbiased information, and by including it in the reviews section with an editorial, you are giving bias to the information.

Perhaps once Fresh Foodie returns, there can be a discussion of how to best include this information on the site (such as a link somewhere to the inspection report, or to the home page of the PHI on the Ottawa website).


2009 Jul 30
Idealy the link to Restaruant Thing reviews would be expanded to give a link to the heath inspection information. Although folks like to think only the most recent review counts, I don't belive this is the case. One should have the opportunity to review a restaurants performance history in regard to health inspections and decide for themself.

The fact that I commented on Light of India likely gave rise to this post. Do you not think folks should know about their performance in this regard? They are in my opinion the worst case in Ottawa. So bad that the city closed down the restaurant on two occasions.

2009 Jul 30
I know LWB is going to disagree with me, but in my experience, the PHI do a thorough job, one might say too thorough. I find that the younger ones especially are way too anal. Granted, they did just graduate from college and are out to prove a point. Common sense should prevail. Applying the strictest regulations to festivals and fairs for instance seems a bit overboard IMO. Anyway, my point is, take all these reviews with a grain of salt.

Think about it this way. Before all these reviews went online:

1) Did you go to the PH office and ask for all their reviews before you went to a restaurant?
2) They were pass, conditional pass and fail a la Toronto. Did you ask the restaurants who "passed" for a full report before you ate there? Could it be possible that you ate a passed restaurant who didn't have enough water in their dipper?
3) 10 years ago... did you even care?


2009 Jul 30
Snoopy, I don't disagree at all. I think the PHI have an important job to play, but their lives don't begin and end with restaurant inspections. I think that the frequency of the inspections is appropriate, and that the thoroughness could indeed be a bit more lax (like I said with regards to Bridgehead...dirty floors do not equate dirty staff)

Yroc, your comment was part of the reason why I bumped the topic back up, but ny no means the only reason--another discussion was being held in the "Worst Dining Experience" forum with regards to minor infractions, and I think that this forum is a better venue for the discussion.

Yroc said, One should have the opportunity to review a restaurants performance history in regard to health inspections and decide for themself.

I agree. Which is why any data after January 1, 2009 is posted on the City website. With regards to decid(ing) for themself, by adding an editorial to your review, you are biasing their view of the restaurant's inspection.

I really think that if inspections are going to be posted in the review section of the website, then it ought to be in the general information as a direct link to the Ottawa Inspection Reports website.

2009 Jul 30
Zmy posted: Look Yroc - read the thread in the forums. We already agreed that we don't want people just posting the stuff from the health inspections. That is not what this site is for. Anyone who wants that info can go find it.

Where is said agreement?

Why not post this info? It's not like I am posting untrue info. It is relavant public info for anyone who might want to go to that restaurant.

2009 Jul 30
You sir, are fearmongering.

2009 Jul 30
LWB: agree your chastising of Yroc is not unwarranted, and that these type of posts have no business being in the reviews section - however - just yesterday you posted the following on Mekong's entry (???)

ottawafoodies.com

2009 Jul 30
Monty: fair enough. I would delete and move, but Pete posted after me.

At the time, I was seeing my post as counteracting the review about their not being compliance. Clearly, this type of thing ought to be all or nothing, and I would rather it be nothing (I know that this discussion was held, and we came to such an agreement but cannot seem to find it in the forums).

Apologies for the posting.

2009 Jul 30
Well, I'd have to go digging but we discussed here in the forums and that's what I recall we came to an agreement on.

If everyone just uses this site to start posting links to heath department info for every restaurant, it would greatly diminish the usefulness of this site.

2009 Jul 30
I don't think this info is relevant to my own dining decisions or my Ottawa Foodies experience.

I'm glad the city collects this information. I'm also glad that they make it available to us--it shows that they will actually close someone down if they put our health at risk (ie if they find repeated critical violations).

The problem is that these reports are provided with no context and very little explanation, meaning it's easy to misinterpret and/or overreact to them. Some inspectors are probably more strict than others, but you can't tell that from the city's website. For me if an inspector visits and allows the place to stay open, it's probably ok to eat there. They may have to fix this or that, but on balance it's safe enough to remain open.

When I read Ottawa Foodies I do it to hear about vendors/foods that are new or what other foodies think is really awesome. I don't want to read a bunch of nit picking about whether the dishwater in a restaurant was 82ºC or not. It just seems a bit petty/lame and it would take some of the fun out of this website.

If someone requires that level of information to decide where to eat, they know it's on the city's website.


2009 Jul 30
I agree with you Urban.. however I must point out the health inspectors closed this place down (after it had multiple violations over a short period of time). Not exactly a routine thing in my mind.

I should point out .. that health inspections do affect my dinning choices. I used to take out Shawarma from a place on Bank st. I never stepped foot in the place again once I read an article about them and their inspection record in the Citizen a few years back.

It is mentioned here www.zabihah.com/ds.php?id=714

2009 Jul 30
This might sound a bit naive, but are restaurants not required to post their reason for their closure (ie. Health Inspection) in the same regard that buildings violating a building code or liquor license do?

2009 Jul 30
Lady Who Brunches & Zym - Ok I took the time and read thru this entire Topic... I'm not sure if we came to any conclusions (here in this topic)... it may have ended up being further discussed in a Review that was written at the time that had another reference to the Inspection Reports being available on-line... (there were certainly a lot of them). I will continue to look... I know there were a lot of discussion both in this Forum Topic and in the Reviews as there was an abundance of links that were posted into Reviews at the time that this all came about (April 2009).

Anyways, the discussion portion here that relates to the "misinformation / misinterpretation" of these Inspection Reports start in this Topic with April 18th and Ashley's post... which was followed up with both FOOD is HOT and myself explaining how this misinformation is harmful to a Restaurant when someone doesn't comprehend the different categories of the Inspections (not to highlight Ashley's misunderstanding, it was just that her entry starts the chronological discussion... at the time there were many misinterpretations... both higher up in this Topic and elsewhere in the Reviews).

It is my recollection that we all agreed that this "histeria" was not beneficial to either Ottawa Restaurants in general, nor to the purpose of the Ottawa Foodies Community... and that the Inspection Reports were overshadowing all other aspects when it came to Reviews at that time... we stated that further discussion about the Inspections should happen in the Forum.

As to whether a link should be provided on each Vendor's page... that was discussed, but I think the primary issue was that it would have to have an explanation or the misinterpretation / misinformation would no doubt continue (as at the time the Ottawa Website didn't have anything to explain how to read / interpret the Inspection Reports), our fear that was in having such a link on the Vendors pages, would in the end just have more of the same errupt in the Reviews.

Think that the issue just died out over time... as the Inspections lost front page coverage.

2009 Jul 30
Good recap, Food & Think. I appreciate you taking the time to collaborate all that. I think, while no conclusion was ever reached, many people felt that as you stated, and that the Inspection Reports were overshadowing all other aspects when it came to Reviews at that time...

That said, I think something that would be useful and appropriate, would be a link, in the Wiki, to the OPH Public Health Inspection site. This is certainly the bare minimum of what people are suggesting and I think that it is an important part of the Ottawa food experience.

2009 Jul 31
to be honest, when the reports first came out, i looked up all my favourite restaurants, read them (was shocked by a few) and then promptly forgot about the whole thing - which i bet is the typical thing that happened with other people.

2009 Jul 31
Lady Who Brunches - I checked out the OF Links Wiki, the entry is already there (so no need to add) believe it is called EatSafe Ottawa.

HipFunkyFun - Indeed that was also my experience, and I found that most spots that I frequent were in compliance... and if non-compliance then it was because the floor was dirty (No CRITIAL issues in regards to food safety / handling issues)... Nothing that would turn me away (off) as a Customer.

To be honest, I haven't even looked at the EatSafe Ottawa Website since April.


2009 Aug 1
Light of India, for example, is one of those situations where knowing about a long history of critical food-safety problems is useful and does turn my off as a customer.

2009 Aug 2
My post on Light of India was removed.

My comments are not welcome here, nor is honest information. Way too much censorship for my taste.

Regards folks.. I won't be back.

2009 Aug 2
Yroc - In regards to one of your previous comments (here in this Topic, higher up...)

"Idealy the link to Restaruant Thing reviews would be expanded to give a link to the heath inspection information. Although folks like to think only the most recent review counts, I don't belive this is the case. One should have the opportunity to review a restaurants performance history in regard to health inspections and decide for themself."

"The fact that I commented on Light of India likely gave rise to this post. Do you not think folks should know about their performance in this regard? They are in my opinion the worst case in Ottawa. So bad that the city closed down the restaurant on two occasions."

Personally, I agree, I do think that everyone should have access to that info, BUT the primary issue is how to incorporate it into the OF Website. I like the idea of it being treated similar to the Restaurantthing links, as you said "idealy"... but I think there are some technical issues with doing that for each and every Vendor here on OF (otherwise, it would have been a higher priority back in April).

Back in April, when these Inspection Reports first went on-line, this Website was "over-run" with info on the Inspections, to the point that that was ALL that was being discussed / posted into the Reviews Section. No one was actually posting Reviews based on eating experiences, they were just pasteing links to the Inspection Reports (many of which highlighting items that were Non-Critical... and as the City had at that point chosen not to explain to the public the difference, between a Critical and Non-Critical issue, there was a feeling of histeria here on OF that 100s of Restaurants in Ottawa were non-compliant... or actually as the mis-information spread... "dangerous" places to eat). That just wasn't correct info. The whole issue grew to the point where many regulars stated something had to be done... so all the links to the Food Inspections were removed from the Review section (now yours has joined those ranks) and discussion was agreed to in the future take place in the Forum.

You are correct in stating that when a Vendor is indeed non-compliant for CRITICAL issues and is ultimately shut down because of it... that is important info, and should be made available to OF Members. I don't think you'll find anyone on OF who would argue that point.

You are quite welcome to discuss Food Inspections in this particular topic (which has been around since mid April), or even start a new one about Light of India here in the Forum. As an example... if you entitled it "Light of India CLOSED for Health Reasons" then when someone did a global search for Light of India that topic would also come up on the Search Report... I know it would catch my eye.

As for your most recent post:

"My comments are not welcome here, nor is honest information. Way too much censorship for my taste."

I don't believe that to be correct... as already stated this is more a Website functioning issue (a website BTW that is FREE to join, and run voluntarily as a "hobby" by Fresh Foodie.. so it isn't like there is tons of money for fancy upgrades... most OF Members are very happy that the site exists and that we get to play here due to his generosity). There was lots of discussion about the Food Inspection Reports back in April (unfortunately you weren't a member at that time). The Membership found the best solution was the one I outlined above. So your comments about censorship are unfounded.

Others have tried to explain all this to you, you weren't happy with the explanation given. I have chosen to elaborate on it further with this post. Whether you choose to understand it is up to you.

2010 Sep 22
Bumping this up because I am now following @restowatch on twitter. According to their bio: "Monitoring City of Ottawa restaurant inspections for reports of critical safety deficiencies." They are posting links to updated inspection reports as they are added to the City of Ottawa website. I thought it might be of interest to some.