ottawa foodies

OK, I just got back from a local butcher shop - not to name any names - and they are going to seriously consider taking me on as an apprentice.

I've been doing a lot of googling and it looks like there is really no way to get any serious training in this area. No more community colleges or anything like that - all the training comes from the huge factory meat suppliers.

I know there are one or two butchers here on the site - care to share any info? Tips? Whatever?

While I was waiting to talk to the butcher, one of the cashiers told me she has heard of local sport hunting groups offering seminars where they bring in a freshly killed animal and run you through how to butcher it. Anyone ever hear anything like that? Know any details?

thanks,
-Zym

Wow, looks like one of the only places left to study this in the country is in Quebec. Everywhere else you seem to be stuck with learning it at a big factory, or if you are lucky, from a small butcher shop directly.

www.cicic.ca
www2.inforoutefpt.org

I checked the agricultural colleges both in Kemptville, and in Nova Scotia. And other community colleges, too.

i know Tom Henderson's does alot of our beef, but they are in chesterville.

Hi zymurgist,

The "Centres de formation professionnelle" are a good option for learning trades. My husband studied in one when he decided to go back to school (car related training though, not food). Most of the students are adults, the teachers have practical experience in what they are teaching and the schedule makes it easy to work evenings if you have to. Best of all, the tuition is really low (about 150-200$ per semester if I remember correctly), as those are public schools and heavily subsidized by the provincial government. Though I think because of all that subsidizing you may have to move to Quebec to be admitted to those schools (not sure...)

Obviously, if you can get in as an apprentice for a good butcher near where you currently live, that's even better, but I'm just giving you more information if you are looking at the different options.

Apprenticeships will probably be best, learn on the job, learn the tricks... I think basic butchering is part of the chef program at Algonquin, maybe someone can attest to that or not? You're right, asking some hunting buddies who are familiar with field dressing, etc. are also good resources to tap into. I have not heard of workshops, because some of these guys make good $ providing that service. I'll ask around though.

As far as books are concerned, you might want to check out Basic Butchering of Livestock & Game (J. Mettler) for starters. Good luck!

Zymurgist,

A friend of mine did exactly what you did and after getting experience and also being jerked around at various local butcheries, later applied to be a butcher at Loblaws just to be with the United Food and Commercial Workers union, comprehensive medical, dental and eyewear benefits, pension to support her family. She then became Meat Dept manager within 2 years. Just sayin'...

XOXOXOXO KC

KC, if it were just about making money I'd stay in IT. I'd probably make 1/3 as a butcher as I do in IT. Even as a meat manager I'd make half what I'm used to in IT.

This is most definitely not about money. But yes, I do still need to support a family. Though our needs are pretty modest by most people's standards so I think we can manage.

I was emphasizing STABILITY rather than money. Good luck to you and I mean it.

XOXOXO KC

Let me tell you something about stability - it does not come from large corporations. A whim from the CEO and you are gone. A bad quarter financially, and you are gone. Stability comes from planning for the worst but hoping for the best. It comes from self-reliance, not relying on others. It comes from living a modest life with no expectations. When you expect nothing, everything you get is a bonus.

I've been out of work 3 months now and the only things we've needed to go to the store for are things like milk and eggs, and we've barely put a dent in our food stockpiles. And we still eat just as high on the hog as ever. People who always teased me about preparing for armageddon suddenly understand. I'm unemployed, and perfectly stable.

And that is not even to mention that being a butcher for Loblaws would not give you any degree of personal creativity whatsoever. I'd like to work at a place where I could - gawd forbid - introduce a new product or something. Or improve upon an existing one. I'm not even sure they do any amount of butchery in their stores anymore, do they?

zym... have you read Heat written by Bill Buford? If you haven't you should, besides being very entertaining, it is almost everything you are talking about. The complete title is:

Heat: An Amateur's Adventures as Kitchen Slave, Line Cook, Pasta-Maker, and Apprentice to a Dante-Quoting Butcher in Tuscany

www.amazon.com

If I can find my copy, I'll loan it to you if you like.

Zymurgist,

Again, best wishes and good luck to you.

XOXOXOX KC

Zym - In the Citizen & Ron Eade's blog lately, I found similar parallels between your situation and the co-owner/operator: communities.canada.com

Algonquin used to have a meat cutters course in the '80s but discontinued it. My husband returned to his former life as a meat cutter/butcher when he was laid off from job in high tech. Warning, many of the major grocery stores (in Ottawa) do not do in house meat cutting with a few exceptions like Metro. Most, Farm Boy, Loblaws, Sobeys all get their meat processed in a central location and shipped to their stores. The handful of meat cutters they have just sort of repackage. Also, most meat cutters are not very highly paid, around $30k to $40k.

Yeah, I saw that guy Chimi - many of the same ideas I've had. I've actually fantasized for some time about butchery, and thought what a great thing it would be to serve meat where the purchases knew which farmer grew it! I want to go talk to that guy actually. If I'd had severance money from Nortel I could have probably afforded to go to Cordon Bleu to learn it too :-) Ah well.

Ritz, I know it will be a lot less paying than what I'm used to. No problems with that.

Hey Zym !!!

Here's your big chance ... to become a butcher .... at one of your new favorite meat suppliers .... Lavergne Western Beef.

They are looking for a person with no experience to be trained as a butcher ! Ta da !!

"Looking for 2 full time butchers; 1 with experience, 1 with no experience that is willing to learn the trade. Competitive wage, day shift, & benefits. A great opportunity to join a stable, growing company."

Unlike Nortel, they are " a stable, growing company".

ottawa.kijiji.ca

marioe@lavergnewb.ca = mario e at Lavergne Western Beef dot ca

Hope Navan is not to far to pusure your fantasy.

Zymurgist, I know one of our local butchers is good about teaching people who want to learn things. If you want to get into contact with them, let me know, and I'll give you more details on that. I know he does this for farmers, if I ask him, he might help you out.

For years, my husband and I (and many other organic farmers) have discussed opening a specialty meat processing facility. We envision a place that organic farmers can bring their meats for quality processing without risk of contamination from conventional meats, along side a facility where non farming folks can go use the commercial kitchen to make their own sausage, schnitzel, etc, and do their own curing and smoking.

There are a few of us working on this plan, and it would benefit from future butchers like you. I think the best butchers are those who love food, and in a way they are like artists: Looking for the perfect cuts out of a side is like looking for the sculpture within the piece of marble.

Thanks Captain - just sent my resume!

good luck zymurgist - that would be a fantastic learning experience!

I know of a sausage and smoked meat shop that processes meats for hunters in Ottawa.
I shop there sometimes and they make around 1/2 the items in house (the rest is stuff like imported cheese and packaged items).
Not sure if they train or hire though.

Bank St Sausage co says on their website they process meats for hunters at their store. not sure how that works.

Any new here Zy ?

Nothing yet - recontacted both Lavergne and Saslove. Saslove is actually hiring someone but not a butcher - I put my name in for it anyway. I talked to the owner of Lavergne just before xmas and he said he'd be hiring early in the new year and would keep me in mind.

Got my fingers crossed for you ... as an ex-high tech person myself and entering a new (less lucrative but much more fulfilling) field ... I wish you all the best.

Just got a call - I start tomorrow morning at 6am at Lavergne!

Congrats on your new job! A new year and a new occupation....best of luck.

Congratulations Zymurgist. I think you may have discovered this already...whenever Lavergne is mentioned, it's almost always followed by (a deserved) "They're great."
No doubt you will be a very nice addition. Best wishes.

Congratulations, zym! It sounds like a perfect match. :-)

congratulations on the new career zymurgist!

i will be patiently waiting for the soon-to-be-instituted Ottawa Foodies discount at Lavergne Western Beef :)

Very cool, good luck with it.

Wow, that's awesome! 6am...no worry about hitting traffic!

Congratulations Zym!

They must have watched your Christmas video! haha

Well Done!

Hey Zym ... congrats !! Instead of 'coding', you are now helping to bring joy to many dinner tables throughout the Ottawa area. I'm in awe.

Check my Nov 26 entry in this thread ... I stumbled across the Levergne ad and thought of you. I'm glad I posted the info. ... Maybe a little hanger steak 'finders fee' would be in order ? (... and I did cross my fingers for you yesterday as well.... that alone is worth a hamburger patty ;-) )

I do recall without checking that you pointed me at this position Captain - thanks very much for that! I'm sure a finders fee of some sort might be in order ... :-)

Yes congrats! Now just don't come up with some kind of weird offal brew video at home (unless its a soup). mmmmm brain stout.

That's terrific! I hope that the experience meets up with your expectations

Yes, my expectations. I've been thinking all day about those :-)

My expectations are :
- a lot of hard work
- a lot of repetitive work
- not being allowed to do "fun stuff" for a long time
- a lot of hard work
- being surrounded by a lot of fantastic food all day
- a lot of hard work
- not much^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hno glory
- humbling myself frequently
- learning tonnes of stuff
- a lot of hard work

We'll see how it goes tomorrow!

you forgot to add -being near delicious meats...

You'll learn a lot of neat and new things- different ways of sausage makings and honestly, I love the feeling of coming home tired because I worked hard. The cool thing is that they picked you to share their knowledge with. The average joe around the city can't even pay to learn what you are going to learn.

Such a cool change of pace. Congratulations and best of luck with butcher life.

you also forgot....standing on your feet all day. You will definitely be tired, but a good tired.

Yup, good tired.

What a day!

Started off at 6am cutting the heads off pigs with a hacksaw.

Then stood in a line behind the guys on the bandsaw, taking the side pork (bacon) and ripping off the thick layer off fat from the inside. They were first cutting the whole pig down the middle into two halves, and then cutting each half in half again lengthwise into the ribs and the bacon.

Then I was at the table where the front shoulders went. Had to cut each into half, and then ... um ... things get foggy here exactly what all I did but I know at one point I was deboning picnic roasts. And I learned what constitutes a picnic roast! picnic + butt = shoulder. Who would have thunk that the butt comes from the front quarter? Not me!

Then I was working on the back quarters - skinning them, but not deboning.

Got to watch a few deboning procedures - interesting to see different butchers with completely different methods of achieving the same goal.

Then I did it all over again.

And during breaks got to wander around the sausage making and smoking rooms and ask a few questions.

Good times ... good times!

Started off at 6am cutting the heads off pigs with a hacksaw

can't they use a bandsaw for that? or is that the initiation for rookies? ;)

It is actually easier that way monty due to the space. It is a small space for the volume they put through there, and getting the pig on the band saw to do that with the position of everything else around, just does not seem to me to be feasible. You'd have to put it on sideways compared to how you saw them down the middle.

And it is surprisingly easy to do anyway - only takes a few strokes since they come with a huge cut around their necks anyway, all the way around.

p.s. good eye :-)

Started off at 6am cutting the heads off pigs with a hacksaw

If I had a nickel for every one of my days that started off that way ...

Got to do an hour of knife practice today - clearing all the meat out of different portions of beef neck. Very difficult!

It's the "snatch the pebble from my hand" exercise - I love it!

I LOVE MY JOB!

Just out of curiosity, what brand of knives are they/you using? Are your hands tired/crammped at the end of the day?

I checked the brand today but forget it already :-( Something I'd never heard of.

No, hand are not cramped and tired at the end of the day. My body is generally sore all over, but a good sore.

Miu France brand? Forschner? They're really (dirt) cheap, can be honed & sharpened until there's almost nothing left, and the handles are really comfortable (ergo molded plastic). I own two chef 10" knives by Miu France, they are used in commercial environments because they're cheap workhorses & can be easily sanitized.

At class the chef told us to shift your weight from leg to leg (not back and forth, but throughout the day)
and not to round your back over the work table.
This helps save the knees and back.
He had been working in the kitchen over 30 years and it he felt it helped him.
Good job Zym

birkenstock clogs help tons if your knees/feet start to get sore. most chefs wear them.

I checked a bunch of knives today. Mostly Capital but a few Nella

EDIT: as far as staying comfortable goes while standing all day - my years of Aikido training come in very handy for that. I don't even notice it. My main sensei would sometimes put us into a stance and say "OK, let's see how long you can stay there - if it gets uncomfortable, you arent doing it right, so figure out how to do it right"

Not surprising... almost every I go in Ottawa I see Capital knives, be it kitchens, butcher shops, delis... my kitchen :) they have a good thing going for themselves.

Snoopy - I wonder if they're rebranded for them; the chef knife is exactly the same as my Miu France except for the colour of the handle.

I'm not sure... the handle seems a little different, the bolster (where the handle and the blade meet) is 90 degrees, whereas for the Miu France, it's slightly angled.

Some trophies I made today which I just had to take home with me because it was the first time I was able to debone a pork shoulder without any help, and even reasonably quickly. I'm pretty pleased with my progress in such short time - but I guess I've been at the same station the whole week so it is getting drilled into my head.

Congrads Zym - I am looking forward to the many videos that you will be putting out

Hey Zym- was wondering do they sell beef cheeks at Lavergne? What about sweet breads?

Beef cheeks not sure - call and ask. We don't deal with beef heads directly where I am but that does not mean we don't sell them. I cut out pork cheeks almost every day and they usually go to a particular use, but if someone called and asked for some I'm pretty certain we'd set some aside and sell them like that because we do that for other stuff.

If you look at the website for Marche Outaouais there are a few vendors that have beef heart, toungue, tail..other parts.

marcheoutaouais.com

Coeur | 2.18$/lb (4.84$/kg) Le poids par paquet est d'environ 1,0 lb (0,45 kg) | Prix : 2.18$
-beef heart, not sure if you want that too?

Pork, different cuts and organ meats ect:

marcheoutaouais.com

I have only tried the Cretons from here and they were very good.

You could try emailing these farmers and they can probably help you out!

Cool! Thanks Zymurgist and Prettytasty.

I just got a couple of new cookbooks. One is the Fresh Canadian Bistro Cookbook:
www.amazon.ca

It has all kinds of well known Canadian chefs' recipes but I'd really like to try out a recipe for beef cheeks. Sweetbreads have been on my list to try for awhile- I've seen them frozen at The Butchery in Bells Corners.

I like that I'm now working for a place where "trimming the fat" is a good thing :-)

hmmm I had awesome beef cheeks in SF many years ago. The chef was from france, and emailed me the recipe, but I never found a source for cheeks. Now I'll have to find it again.

BTW beef heart can be quite awesome. I had it done at mado in chicago. It was a very beefy flavour, I think it can be tough but this preparation was sliced thin.

In the summer, I enjoy grilling beef heart (halved) over a super hot charcoal fire until it is slightly crispy on the outside, slice it very thin against the grain, and then eat it with an Italian salsa verde or chimichurri-type sauce.

I agree with you SD, heart has a very beefy flavour that can be occasionally lacking from the more tender cuts, such as tenderloin.

What-cha ya do wit da bones ? Stock ?

The kids making noise in the background is the best part of this video !

No, the bones just went into the compost. I only brought them home to make this video.

My typical Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Breaking Down a Pig - urbanhippy.ca

Thursdays and Fridays are usually centered on beef.

I gotta say the sentiments above are correct that I am really privileged to be where I am! Holy moly the Lavergne family is synonymous with meat! I work with at least 4 family members that I know of so far who have all been cutting meat since they were about 7 years old! Three in their 50s and 60s and 1 in his 20s. Yowza! And does it show! Just incredible what they can do.

Even the master butcher training me (not a family member) is impressed, and he is not impressed easily from what I can tell. Today he told me to take 10 minutes and just watch the young guy cut. Then after watching him skin and bone a whole shoulder (both halves) in about a minute - the master butcher looks at me and says something like "I don't know, I do all the same moves and I used to consider myself fast - but that is something else". It's like poetry in motion watching that guy cut meat! And I'm not kidding nor exaggerating!

Every family has a ninja in it. I'm mine.

I am really enjoying following your training. Thanks for these posts!

glad to see you are enjoying yourself...it must beat sitting in a cubicle staring at a monitor slowly going blind!

I absolutely LOVE my job Spud Guy, and I don't think I have ever really done that.

Zym,

I'm glad the someone, who happened to come across the ad for a butcher, passed the lead on to you. ;-)

Don't worry Captain, I haven't forgotten your finder's fee :-)

Zym ... You know, I've never had a true hanger steak during BBQ season.

en.wikipedia.org

Hey, I"m doing well - I took one look at it and said to myself "that looks like a skirt steak" - and sure enough they say that is another name for it :-)

I'll see what I can do for you Captain. Was going to offer you some freshly roasted coffee but then I recalled that you already roast your own.

Zym, I keep forgetting to ask, but Cap'n has reminded me: so does that mean that you guys cut/sell fresh hanger steak? I've only seen it available here in cryovac form.

I dunno yet to be honest momo but I'll find out tomorrow :-)

Momo try giving Manotick Village Butcher a call early in the week and ask. They can usually cut anything you want when they get a side in.

We cut to order too Ken V and usually have 6 to 8 quarters hanging at any give time. I'm just curious about this particular cut because it is from the diaphram and may not be typically attached to one of the quarters since that is from the middle of the abdomen.

The suspense is killing me :-)

I just turned down my 3rd high tech job since starting as a butcher almost 2 months ago. This latest one was almost tempting since Adobe is within walking distance of my house and that is a pretty huge criteria for me in terms of getting a job because then I could get rid of my car.

But dammit Jim, I'm a butcher!

I used the skinning machine today for the first time. The most fearsome machine in a butcher shop judging by the reaction of the other butchers. Imagine every other machine in every other industry that has been redesigned with safety in mind to not catch and pull in the operator. Now take all of those design changes and reverse them and put them all into a single machine whose sole purpose is to catch and pull stuff in, and then shred it.

I also learned what "button ribs" are (never heard of them)

And a few days ago I learned what "gams" are, and low-and-behold they were not actually what we used to call "gams" as teenagers!

hope you don't mind being the go to guy for meat questions.
Can you tell me why grocery stores carry pork picnic and shoulder but not pork butt?
I know I should probably ask the meat department, but just wondered if there were specific reasons for this.

I don't know for sure but maybe because they use them for other things like sausage. But supermarkets these days even the people working in the meat department would not know if you did ask - they probably would not even know what a butt is.

You can walk in at Lavergne and buy a butt. It won't be in the case out front but just ask for it and they'll get a butcher to cut you one if there is not already one cut.

Or of course you could buy a whole shoulder at the supermarket and cut out the butt, but then you have picnic you did not want.

Adobe you say. I worked there for a while, when they took over JetForm. Great company, great benefits....but no meat or knives. I still know quite a lot of people that work there and are quite happy. You must be really happy to not consider an Adobe position. Congrats!

I remember back when Zym said that one of the reasons he stayed in high tech (before his layoff) was due to the 'golden handcuffs' he had on.

See the last entry in this post (dated Aug 18 2008):

Forum - Beau's is Hiring

Good to see what true freedom from those cuffs has brought.

"Doing what I passionately want to do sure beats doing what I can do without any passion ... even at a cost"

Zym ... Master Butcher !! Master of his destiny !!

I'm a butcher's apprentice Captain - far away from a master butcher at this point.

And yes, I truly am free. For more information on that idea - I don't think I posted this link yet in this thread so here it goes.

urbanhippy.ca

I like that my income is now 100% food. I've got a few more ideas too. For example, the recent knife discussion has made me realise that in a few short months I'll have enough knowledge to open a knife sharpening business. Right now I'm just on the cusp of being able to keep my knife properly sharpened, so in a few months I think I'll be comfortable enough to open a business doing that.

My goal for the last few years has been to reform my income such that I have 4 or 5 sources of income, each one coming from something that I really enjoy doing. So if any 1 experiences a downturn I won't fell the pinch.

Our local beer club is currently starting up a study group to take the BJCP exam next year - so I hope to be able to find the time to participate in that as well.

Note to self : learn to cut off pig heads with right arm. Left bicep becoming noticeably larger

what do you do with the heads? sell them?

Some heads get used for our in house head cheese, and some get sold. Some end up discarded as there is never a market for all the heads.

I had my first professional injury yesterday and gave credence to the old saying "you never cut yourself with a sharp knife"

They guys say that 3 and a half months and only 1 cut is doing pretty good :-)

Sorry I have not really kept this thread up to date - sadly this will be my last post in it. Last week I severed one of my bicep tendons, and would be out of work for quite a few months as a result. And if I did decide to go back to butchery after having it repaired, there would be a very high liklihood that it would happen again.

So that's it, that's all. I was having the time of my life doing what I was doing, and I'm incredibly disappointed at this turn of events. But that's life. I need to move on.

So back on the job hunt :-(

It's a somewhat long story how this managed to come to pass - I'll do a blog post on it soon and drop that in here.

Ouch. Sorry to hear it.

Very sorry to hear that Zy. I really have enjoyed your enthusiastic posts about what you were learning and can't imagine what a blow this has been. Thank you and Good luck going forward.

Return to your first love - brewing. Can't the Kitchessipi guys do something for you? Close to your house! Combine your enterprises - coffee porter on the way. Sorry to hear the butchery days are over, good luck on your recovery.

Problem with brewing is that it requires heavy lifting. That's precisely why I cannot do butchery anymore - no more heavy lifting. I supposed technically I could be a meat cutter a la supermarket variety, but there's no fun in that if I can't break down animals.

I'm sorry. I too enjoyed reading your posts.

Deep sympathies; that seems a horrid turn of events. I hope at least your coffee roasting can continue.

How about a job cooking in a meat centric restaurant?

Maybe I shouldn't have sent you the info on the butcher apprentice job at LaVerne's . Yeesh. Heal soon.

Would you have to do any heavy lifting if you oversaw (managed) the brewing at the new Mill St. Brew Pub down by the river ? ( ..... and you could walk to work).

Brewmeister = Brewing Manager = Controls/orders inputs, oversee production runs, Quality Control, Cleanliness Control, Inventory control, yeast propagation, new product development etc.
No washing ... ANYTHING, the technicians do that.

Very sorry to hear about your injury. Explains why you'd been posting during business hours lately. Hope you can turn your new-found passion into something less physical. Loved your posts and learned lots from them. Thanks.

Ouch! Sorry to hear this, Zym.

I'd certainly become a Mill St. drinker should Captain Caper's scenario ever become a feasible career path for you!

Small brewpub always have heavy lifting and usually just a single brewer with no "master" who does nothing but direct underlings. I could go talk to them in any case.

Today I had an interview with Farm Boy for meat cutter at their central facility on Walkley. They do not break down whole animals which means on the one hand no heavy lifting so it should not be a big worry with my shoulder, but on the other hand that was a significant portion of the fun factor of the job at Lavergne. I got a tour of their facilities too. There would be some upsides to working there versus Lavernge, but more down sides. Nonetheless I may end up taking it if I am offered a job. We shall see ...

Best of luck!

Sniff

Remember the time I became a butcher?

whelp...
going to miss all the good information and stories