ottawa foodies

Is it possible to find grass fed beef in Ottawa? Must be ONLY grass fed, no grains at all ;)

Thank you!

See this thread ottawafoodies.com/forum/1858
and call a few farmers to ask.

My farmer is www.saffirefarms.ca and he does grass fed only. But he only sells to customers of his CSA. The beef is incredible - we had some steaks last night in fact, and I just ate some leftovers a few minutes ago.

Yes. Dobson Farms www.dobsonfarm.com is one, there are others as well, but be careful since some finish on corn/grain before slaughter in the winter months.

I'm glad you brought up Saffire, Zym, since now I know that they do small shares, as well.

Since fear of too many vegetables has been a big factor in our decision to not get CSA, a small share would be just the ticket.

Another bonus with Saffire - one of their pickup points is my driveway, and a lot of the brewers are subscribers too. It is known as "Thursday Night Beer and Veggies" :-) We share homebrew samples on pickup nights.

"some finish on corn/grain before slaughter in the winter months" -- that's why I said "no grains at all", because I am aware of these practices. These practices definitely greatly degrade the meat nutrition value and quality. Thank you for addressing this.

Saffire does not currently finish on grain, but starting this year he is going to do both types. He will continue to do some that is all grass, and will start to do some that is mostly grass but the finished on grain. He said mainly because a lot of people ask for it (good marketing from big beef producers, making people desire an inferior product). The grain finished would also be a bit cheaper I think he said.

He assured me I'll still be getting my 100% grass fed beef from him if that's what I want :-)

After speaking with some of the farmers re: finishing on grain, I had some varied responses to my 'Why?' from better tasting meat (due to higher marbling), to dwindling/low supply of grass feed during winter months.

I guess "better tasting" is subjective :-)

I really like the gamier flavour of grass fed.

The taste of grass fed beef is an interesting discussion. Dobson warned me to try it before buying in bulk. Good thing he did - I found I don't really like it that much. It tends to be tougher (ok for a slow roast/braise, not great for steak) and a gamier flavour. My personal preference is for grain finish beef, although I understand the ethical dilemma associated with that choice.

I certainly would not associate the word "tough" with any of the cuts I get from Saffire.

Could I get a reference on the nutritional difference between grain fed and grass fed beef? I am quite curious from an ecological POV on the difference.

I believe O'Brien Farm in Greeley is grass fed
personally I like the flavour of beef finished with corn but only corn

I don't think O'Brien has grass fed beef. I had a steak from Brian's Butchery last night and it was from from O'Brien's. If it was grass fed beef then disregard my next question. Does anyone know where I can get grass fed beef in small quantities that has not been frozen?? A small quantity would be four rib steaks and two skirt steaks for an order.

I do believe grass fed beef are pastured so you would have to get this just after slaughter if it is not to be frozen...

I thought they were supplemented with hay in the winter in the pasture. So they only slaughtered once a year?

Yes they eat hay in the winter. There are as many slaughters as the farmer has demand for. But I think you'll have a very difficult time finding stuff that has never been frozen since typically the butcher flash-freezes it before it goes back to the farmer. And I doubt you'd notice the difference anyway, really.

There are places that sell in small quantities but you'll pay dearly for it. There is a place in Ashton - though I'm not sure if he finishes on grain or not.

I don't mind paying dearly. I want to see if I like it before buying a larger order. Zymurgist did you have the name of this place so I can ask them some questions over the phone?

Check the local vore thread (I'm purposely putting a space in there so that this thread does not show up when I search on that term) - I think it is one of the Campbell brothers but not sure. They operate a walk-in operation on the outskirts of Ashton (not "downtown")

There is a farmer on the Quebec side, near the Nakkertok X-Country Ski Club trails, about 15-20 minutes from downtown. He speaks English. His beef is grass fed, organic.

Amyot Maurice
819-568-0735
359 ch de Bellechasse
Gatineau, QC J8V 3Y4

p.s. Here is a good slate article on grass fed beef: www.slate.com/id/2152674/

Zym Ashton Glen Farm only has frozen cuts of beef and will not have any until summer. Just wondering if there is anywhere on the Canadian side that sells smaller orders of fresh not frozen grass fed beef.

Dobson's grass fed beef is in (or near) Cobden. In the summer they are at the Carp Farmer's Market. I have purchased roasts and steaks in small quanities but always during market months. Good luck.

If you do find someone who is selling unfrozen meat, be sure to ask if it was previously frozen.

Ken V, I am somehow doubtful you could tell the difference between fresh and frozen.

zymurgist you already mentioned that point. Everybody has their opinion.60% of meat weight is water and when that water freezes it creates ice crystals. Ice crystals damage the cells of meat on a microscopic level. This changes the texture taste and juicyness of the meat. Just my opinion though. Still looking for fresh grass fed beef around the Ottawa area.

Tee hee. I find it funny that Ken V presents things as facts, such as "Ice crystals damage the cells of meat on a microscopic level. This changes the texture taste and juicyness of the meat." Then he tries to describe them as his opinion.

Oh yes, I know I am a mature lady who brunches.

I know it is an opinion - I just don't think you could tell one from another in a blind taste test

Hey wasn't there supposed to be a blind coffee taste test? How about a frozen beef blind taste test?

Anyone know how often previously frozen beef is sold thawed/"fresh" in butcher shops?

Yeah, my coffee roaster has become way too inconsistent to be used in a blind test chimi. I'm saving up for a better roaster, and when I get it, I'll be bumping that thread. Though at the rate google ads are going on my site, it is going to be a while ...

That might be something that Public Health Inspectors would keep tabs on...? Or would be aware of?

Thanks LWB always look forward to your helpful posts. I don't know what i would do without your "funny" of the day. I guess there is no place around that has unfrozen grass fed beef. Zym we get it you can't tell the difference between frozen and unfrozen beef.

Oooo, brilliant short snapper Ken! You really got me with that one!

In fact, no I don't see a difference. And again, I doubt very much you could in a side by side blind test. For one, you have not yet told us what the difference is that you can see and feel. You told us what happens at a microscopic level, but unless you are superman you cannot see that with your eyes, or feel it. So which of your 5 senses do you use to tell the difference between fresh and frozen beef, and in what manner do you use them? What characteristics do you look for?

Let me ask this : where do you currently buy fresh, never been frozen beef that is not grass fed?

Given what freezing does, I would suspect the freezing process (done properly) and the thawing process (also done properly) would serve to tenderize the meat by slightly breaking down the muscle fibre. Properly thawed, it shouldn't affect juiciness, and I fail to see how it could affect flavour unless you're trying to eat something that was freezer-burned.

From the Canadian Beef Info Centre: www.canadianbeef.info

Scroll down to Frozen Beef and see "myth 1". ;)

Glad to have been to service, Ken!

Refashionista, that was the same initial link that I got from someone at public health, but more for "safe practices in beef thawing" though they said they would look into it some more as well.

If you know that it was frozen, and truly believe that the taste is not going to be as good, then it will not be as good. Isn't it all about our perception after all and not about the actual reality? If Ken wants fresh, let him have it.

i think the problem lies when butchers thaw, sell the meat, and then a customer brings it home and freezes it in their own freezer. i don't like to (re)freeze anything except for ground meats. it's just not the same. my perception at least. i think many would agree.

i work on a JIT system for most perishable food (especially meat) as best as i can.

Respectfully, you guys need to get the difference between an objective fact and a subjective opinion straight if you want to engage in an intelligent debate.

An objective fact: water expands when it freezes and destroys cell walls. Freeze some lettuce if you need a visual example. Better yet, get frostbite in your fingers...it's excruciatingly painful for a week or more after.

My subjective opinion: Frozen meat doesn’t taste as good. Fish is fishier, lamb is gamier, turkey is skunkier and beef is tallowy for lack of a better word. Don't agree? Great we are all entitled to our opinion.

Another subjective opinion: Ken was being diplomatic in offering his opinion and got a whole lot of snark in reply. Someone shouldn’t have to offer up a whole lot of provisos and preemptive apologies when offering an opinion on food...

^ agreed. i don't know why this discussion needed to break down into hostile bickering...

Big hug!

freeze the popcorn for later ...

You are right but wrong Trachino. You are right on objective facts versus subjective opinions.

You are wrong that Ken offered an opinion. He did not offer anything to say why he wanted unfrozen. I was just trying to fish that out of him. For example, you've provided your reasons why you do not like frozen. Ken did not.

But you are right again in that there is no reason for him to have to give his reasons. Personally, I just like to have reasons for the things I do, and when I see someone doing something for no apparent reason, it sticks out to me as odd. Often I'll just grin and move on, sometimes I'll ask them about it.

The only "snark" above that I see was Ken's comment on me not being able to tell the difference, and my immediate response to that.

And believe it or not - I also like being proven wrong on things. There is nothing I dislike more than going around believing lies, and the more someone else can prove me wrong, the happier I am because it means all the few lies I'm going around believing.

I'm still not convinced on this one though - would be nice to have a blind taste test.

EDIT: p.s. I think moltar said it the best - if someone thinks there is a difference, then there is. In which case it is all in their head. Which is sort of what I was getting at in the first place ... but s/he said he way better.

Rolling Acres Ranch, just outside Shawville on the Quebec side, sells grass-fed beef. Frozen, vacuum-sealed packets. When I used to frequently visit the area, I'd stock up on T-bones, sirloins, filets, ground beef. I believe they also sell at the Piries service station on the 148 in Shawville

Oops, not 100% it is grain-free. It is delicious, though

Hi guys,

I'm friends with their daughter, so I might be prejudiced, but these guys do grass only beef (hay in the winter), 100% grain and corn free.

www.totallynaturalbeef.ca/

All I was asking was if anyone knew where I could get fresh grass fed beef. I didn't think i needed a reason. I did get snarky replies but have had same type of reply in the past by the same people. My opinion is that fresh beef tastes better than frozen. I am still looking for fresh grass fed beef if anyone can help without the snarky remarks.

Snoopy: I don't think mentioning that they do grass only beef is prejudice at all.

I guess our definitions of "snarky" are not the same.

In any case, more to your point and request ...

Given the nature of the beast here, I think really your best bet is to call around to all the different grass-raised farmers and find out when their next slaughter is, and try to arrange to buy some at that time. Not ideal, by any means.

Surely you see the basic problem with your request? It is almost an oxymoron. Your request exists at the intersection of 2 very small niches, which makes it a far, far smaller niche than either of the intersecting components individually.

I think it will be very difficult to find a reliable, steady source of fresh, unfrozen grass-raised beef where you can walk up any time and just grab a steak to go. By definition the stuff does not keep long because you want it never having been frozen. So by definition, you only want small amounts - enough for a few days at most. So for a farmer to supply that to you, s/he'd have to find a very large number of similarly-minded people before slaughtering an animal. But grass-raised is (currently) a VERY small, niche market whereby the only reasonable way for the farmer to be able to do it is to slaughter the animal and immediately freeze it. The alternative would be for the farmer to slaughter, and then try to sell it all before it went bad. Which I suppose is actually longer than a few days - I know a carcass can get hung just above freezing for 4 or 5 weeks before being butchered. So that is a reasonable-sized window.

With that in mind what I'd suggest is calling around to the old-school butcher shops in town, to see if you can find one that does 100% grass-fed. Remember to include muslim shops - and there is no shortage of those around so maybe your chances of finding something is bigger than I originally thought. I know that Aljazeera near me has a big walk-in fridge with carcasses hanging in there, and most people make requests that get cut off the carcass as they wait. And I think this is the norm for muslim shops. So you just need to find one of those places that has grass raised. Or convince one of those places to carry it.

I also know that if you develop a good relationship with a farmer and/or a butcher, they will be more-and-more likely to accommodate requests like this. So find a place that seems willing to work with you, and stick with them and hopefully you can bring them to where you want them, over time. As I went through the thought-process in this post I realised afterall that it should not be difficult for someone to do. All you have to do is convince them there is a demand for it. Incidentally, the muslim shops tend to be extremely reasonably priced, to boot.

Hopefully more helpful, if a little wordy :-)

Thanks zymurgist. I have started a relationship with a butcher and he calls me when he cuts his dry aged beef which is about once a month. I will ask him if he has any requests from other customers for grass fed beef. I have a friend that I work with that is also a farmer but he is old school and trying to talk to him about grass fed beef results in a lengthy debate. He says it takes to long to get the animal to weight and prefers the taste of grain and corn fed beef. He says grass fed is tougher and less tasty because of the low fat content. I don't agree with him but we all have our opinions. I have called and e-mailed around with no luck. When I'm in the U.S next I may try to see if I have better luck.

Ken... did you try the link that I posted?

Ken, you mentioned lengthy debates...I have found this same issue. I say take a couple of cuts/purchaes and try them I have only be able to purchase frozen cuts...Keep us all posted...

Snoopy loopy I read thought the site you posted and it says all meats are frozen in butcher paper. I will send them an e-mail to check anyway but they are sold out until summer at the moment.

W.C The debates are educational to say the least. My farmer friend is very sceptical about organic certification. He tells me stories about Stew his nicknamed steer that will be ready in a few months. The weight management regiment he has the animal on is interesting. He seems passionate about his grain and corn fed Stew. No changing that ones mind even after all the websites I send him to read he always finds something to contradict them.

Oops :) I didn't see that you wanted fresh and grass fed only. If you find... let us know... Right now I buy everything frozen... but that's because I don't have the time to be able to do JIT cooking.

I don't want JIT - I'm preparing for the armageddon :-)

Came in handy when I lost my job - had enough food on hand to feed the family for a good 9 months.

snoopy loopy: thank you. that looks great. the site is very straightforward. explains everything. accepts paypal and delivers. amazing.

Oh man, totallynaturalbeef.ca is backed up with orders until end of summer! Must be really good beef then :)

hey folks,
I just bought some grass fed beef (it does not look like it was previously frozen) at Sasloves Meat Market. They have both all grass fed as well as the kind that is finished with grain. They have all kinds of meat.
www.saslovesmeat.com/

Make sure to update and let us know how you like it after you try it...

You can get it directly from the farmer in Gatineau (was $3 a pound cut up, when I was eating meat). You can choose your animal. He takes them east to a place on the Ottawa side for "conversion". He doesn't even chase them. He puts some hay into a special pen and when the right animal goes in there he just closes the gate. The weight of meat from an animal is about half it's live weight, if I recall. If you don't want the whole thing he finds other people to match you with for sharing it.

MAURICE AMYOT
359 ch de Bellechasse
Gatineau QC J8V3Y4

(819) 568-0735

I believe Aubrey's advertises grass fed beef.