ottawa foodies

Every two weeks, on blue box day, the local bums steal my empties from my blue box. They are non alcholic beer bottles and as a result, non refundable. I have followed them to make sure they do not end up in the garbage.

My discovery... they take them down to the river and soak the label off over night. Tommorow morn they will cash them in at the beer store.. since the beer store cannot tell that no deposit was paid on them. The province and the taxpayer end up paying.

I have complained to the province and to the beer store. My rant every 2nd Monday eve.

edit: oops, i read that to mean you take them down to the river. Still, good investigative work, and definitely worth sharing (perhaps not inc. the "bums" reference ... unless they self-identify as such?)

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ZING! haha, good thinking Yroc. I'll gladly subsidize your activities here (recycling economics seem more complicated than airline economics).

Yroc - As up-tight Ottawan I should be upset right... LOL, the entrepreneur in me however got the best of me with this post... Way to go Blue Box Boys!

Sorry, this is one case where I am cheering (and willing to pay) for the underdog.

Is bum the wrong term for someone who steals my garbage? Perhaps I am being politically incorrect. I should rightfully call them theives or crooks. They are ripping off the province to buy few cans of beer so they can get wasted the next day.

This without my mentioning the fact that they get so wasted, they often forget to put their pants back up after they go for a piss. Nothing like a drunk with his pecker hanging out stumbling around in the market...lol.

Perhaps I should call them emerging entrepreneurs.

In some ways I think it is funny, but in most other ways I don't. I am supporting the wrong type of activity and I am concerned in this regard.

I personally think the province was nuts to have bottles redeemed in this manner. Expecially considering we already subsidize a recycle program with our property taxes. It would have been better if they had used these funds to find markets for the recyclables that end up in the trash (in lieu of supporting the drunks & creating more duplication of service).

The old guy 2 doors down from my goes out in the middle of the night on recycling night and steals cans from everyones recycling. That's just as bad because the aluminum is a major source of revenue to support the recycling program

i'll let someone else rule in w/ the PC term (homeless maybe?), but one of the conventional definitions of "bum" is of someone who does his/her job poorly. Whatever you think of the "job" itself, seems like your man (men?) is doing it well?

so perhaps thief, crook or pecker-hanging-out-dude (phod) might work better (less ambiguous)?

I sort of dislike the term 'Politically Correct', as it seems like demurring over what 'name' sounds nicer for something we want to hate. Myself, like F&T, I'd call him a bum, and an entrepreneur. I find it interesting how easily we can be upset over the idea of someone who has essentially be left out of society ( for one reason or another ) trying to make their way by essentially 'picking up crumbs'.

As a side note, I was awakened late last night (1:00 am?) by a gentleman with a pickup truck and trailer, going through my neighbours garbage (for the aluminum BBQ shell). Of course in this case, this gentleman is enabling the recycling of that BBQ ( to the aluminum smelter ) rather than it being tossed in the landfill.

Yroc, although it doesn't change your particular dilemma, I'd venture to say that the problem isn't 'the bum', but rather the society and circumstances that produced him. I expect the P.H.O. sydrome will disappear by December ;-)

There is a homeless person that walks past my apartment building every night at 2:00 am with his grocery cart full of empty bottles. He stops occasionally to pick empties from other peoples blue boxes on his way past. He is usually just passing through however one night last week he must have had a field day since I heard him in the area until 5:00 am. I live downtown so there are lots of bottles to be found here. I personally don't mind since I feel he is earning his income and I am willing to turn a blind eye to it. However I still cannot wrap my head around people who dumpster dive for food.

Yroc, if you have a problem with it, call Bylaw Services, or 311.

Personally, I don't have an issue with it and once you put something out on the street it's fair game and what they want to do with it is their choice. Furthermore, someone can't be both a bum and a (successful) entrepreneur, because as Itchy said, a bum does their job poorly.

There are much worse things that these people could be doing to make a few bucks, and IMHO it's not our business how they spend it (yes, I know I've totally brought the oil. Who has the popcorn?)

Just my 2 cents; Garbage is still private property, not "fair game". It is illegal for someone to go through someone else's trash. Last year a lady on our street was going through our recycle for pop bottles. Nobody minded because she was going through a difficult time Financially and needed the $$. However a cop happened to pass by and she was fined 400$.

i don't have any issue with someone taking my recycling. i have a comfortable place to live and if my cans or bottles can help someone else, even if just a little bit, then take them. once i put my stuff out on garbage day i am done with it.

i think the beau's bottle returns around the city are a great idea. you drop your finished bottle in the bin and BottleWorks - part of Operation Come Home (formerly Operation Go Home), collects them and returns them to the brewery. the youth are paid a base wage and gain work experience.

I am not actually upset with the recycler. It's the province that needs to rethink.

www.cbc.ca

envirostats.digitalcitizen.ca

I see the whole beer bottle system as an example of incentivized conservation that actually works. Because of that measly 10 cents, people do a pretty good job of collecting and returning their bottles. You rarely see beer bottles hanging around and making a mess the way you do pop cans, plastic bottles, cigarette packs etc.

There are other examples where a tiny, almost insignificant, financial incentive gets people to change their habits...recycling of concrete and some types of construction debris works in an analogous way with similar success. When I was recently on a commercial fishing boat and I saw that the fisherman tossed back the garbage they brought up (which admittedly wasn't very much) I thought to myself "if governments paid for garbage the way people pay for sardines (i.e: a pretty small price), the oceans would be a lot cleaner".

Personally, I leave my empties on the sidewalk in front of my building and they are always gone in about 20 min. I live downtown; that wouldn't fly in a suburb of course. I am not a big supporter of panhandlers so I guess that is my way to give back a little...or more likely I am just lazy and I like to rationalize my laziness as philanthropy ;)

While they are YOUR empties, not every law has to be followed to its strictest interpretation possible. Who cares what other people do with glass bottles as long as they don't waste them.

Consider yourself lucky that you aren't the one who has to rifle through other people's refuse to earn a living.

the real crime here is the drinking of non alcoholic brew ;)

why is this even a post? I think it's kind of sad that you ratted them out. They are not doing anything that will directly or indirectly harm you so I don't know why you are getting all hot and bothered about it. I live in Sandy Hill and I'm quite aware that people go through our garbage. As you probably know, mental illness is one of the reasons why so many people choose to live on the streets. Instead of panhandling, some of them choose to make a living by collecting bottles and such - and YOU are going to rat them out?

Well what goes around comes around. Enjoy your stinky trash...

In fairness to Yroc, what s/he's saying is that the system is broken, and that these people (regardless of whether or not s/he reports them) can and may be fined.

Shag Me well I guess to each his own. I am in a couple of other groups (through yahoogroups) and the subject of trash does come up periodically. Usually in regards to items that are left at the curb or in the blue box and whether or not - legally or ethically - one can take these items. Even though Yroc may have resolved their issue it does prompt some interesting discussion. If this does not appeal to you then you can click on the "ignore this topic" button.

sure, it appeals to me. It reminds me of how cruel people can be. Ever heard the phrase "one man's garbage is another's treasure?".

Sure it IS private property and yes, they are breaking the law. But it is up to them whether or not they want to risk getting caught...I just think that ratting them out was cruel and unnecessary. but that is my humble opinion, right?

Mmmm... looks like Shag-a-delic is bringing the popcorn. I'm going to pull up a seat and get comfy...

Shag me--- Why don't I just stand at the curb and hand the person a $20 bill instead. That is in effect what is happening. Only diff is that everyone is paying a portion of that bill. This because everyone is forced to pay since the province of Ontario is shelling out the cash that we must ulimately pay (to recycle what we already paid to have been recycled). Keep in mind, for my bottles, I did not pay any deposit.

The province should pick one way to recycle all glass and stick with it in my opinion. Either a recycle depot that pays cash (like the beer store), or subsidized curb side pick up (ie. the blue box). Not both.

Does anyone on this site seriously ever put glass any where other than the recycle bin? I have never once in the last 10+ years put a piece of glass in the regular garbage.

Seems to me there is a disconnect between things like this and the taxes we pay (I realize it's peanuts, but it all adds up).

Yroc, you've inspired me to see what other glassware i can sneak past my local beer store. I'll report back.

Slightly (but not totally off topic)...

Lady who Brunches brings up a good suggestion: "...if you have a problem with it, call Bylaw Services, or 311."

Problem is, Bylaw rarely (if ever) attends to a problem I report. Except for that one time when there was a Christmas tree on the off ramp by my house - that was gone pretty quick. They never arrive in time to fine anyone for breaking rules / misbehaving and I often have to resort to my own vigilante justice (that's another thread altogether). I wouldn't bother the police with this stuff because they have crime scenes to tape off and people to taze...

As a last resort, you could move to the suburbs. I used to live near Bronson / Sommerset (yikes!) and since moving to the 'burbs in 2001, there is nary a vagrant in sight. Problem is, life is so much less interesting out here...

Lol... If someone started selling soda in beer bottles, or cooking oil and other similar items in wine bottles they would create a dilema.

I am sure it happens now and we don't know it.

The solution rests with the province, not the city.

Yroc, you think your bum is bad... sometimes I buy beer on the Quebec side and return the bottles in Ontario! *don't tell anyone*

Having just moved to a house, one of the things I don't miss is the regular sound of someone going through the building's glass recycling bin at all hours of the day and night. Entrepreneurs or not, I want my damn sleep!

Step back and there's a bigger problem than a few glass bottles...homelessness and of course the Provincial Gov.! Homelessness won't be solved because there are too many people making a living out of it (abit like cancer)...Prov. Gov. invent a problem and then throw money at it.
We (the royal we) only have ourselves to blame, we (the royal we) voted them in!

....End of rant....

smellanie - re: bylaw. i have always had success calling them for problems. i usually email the problem if it isn't urgent and when i do that i copy my city councillor as well.

This is hilarious. Mounting an overnight Columbo operation to catch hobos snatching recycling...LOL.

I leave everything out there and they can take what they want. My time is worth alot more than the 30 minutes it takes to go get a 3.45$ refund...
The guy in my neighborhood is an older gentleman who tries not to make noise and leaves everything clean. I consider it charity.

smellanie said: Problem is, Bylaw rarely (if ever) attends to a problem I report.

Try reporting it twice. Three times. Four times. Really, and truly, persisteance pays off (used to work in Bylaw. I'm kind of like the City of Ottawa's bike. Everyone gets a ride. Just don't take me on the o-Train ;) )

@Pete-in-Ottawa: shag-a-delic? I think that's the worst nickname every given to an OF user. Really now.

I agree that the problem lies more with province than the city, but that's not how Yroc originally made it sound.

Homelessness is like cancer? I think you need some therapy spud guy...

Pete, I don't think that he meant in terms of the illness, but rather in economic terms. But that's just getting way off topic.

spud guy - consider yourself favorited...

you took the words right out of my mouth.

Besides that, I was going to make a point of asking how much this problem is really going to "cost the taxpayer"? However, any point I could make in that argument would be defeated by saying that "it all adds up" and "it's the principle" (i.e. private property, by-laws, taxpayers money...). But like, Daft_Diner mentioned, allowing others to make a profit off of your refundables and, in this case, non-refundables, can be considered like charity. That is, until the government fixes the cracks in the system.

Forgive me, Yroc, for blasting you like that but I just feel like people are so quick to criticize and scapegoat unfortunate people without understanding the source of their problems. It just irritates me that this sort of thing would bother anybody when there are plenty of people living in this province making a living out of the underground economy. Recently, the point podcast was talking about the new underground economy that is taking effect due to the economic downfall, and they were talking about this lady who transformed her house into a profitable restaurant business. They described it as creative and they thought it was super - even though it is an illegal activity and could possibly harm the economy even more! But a couple of homeless people making a rough $10/day on people's garbage is COMPLETELY out of the question. Anyway, I'm going to stop now because I can see that I'm going on a rant...

So now, ladies and gents, I will stop blabbering on and get back to doing some very important "foodie" research :)

In my experience shooting a shot gun into the air makes bums scatter quickly. Barring that, since it is noisy, I like to perch atop my roof with my trusty air rifle. As part of my training as a Minuteman, I have learned that it is my given right to bear arms and use them to defend my trash.

jeeze why not give the guys a break and leave a couple of full bottles out there for them. or bake them a cake. Showing some generosity is always better than whining! As for bi-law officers - now thats a crime! Anarchy in the UK! -err Ottawa.

he he he.

Daft_diner -- not speaking for Yroc, but you can't undervalue or attach a direct price on this sort of work. Yroc had a hypothesis / problem, and in response, he formulated and implemented his methodology, carried out his analysis, documented his findings and made those available for peer review. That's how things are done here!

Shag Me: i share some of your sentiments (esp. re. scapegoating), but am not certain how quickly (if at all) "the province" will act on Yroc's findings. Any system has some degree of slippage / entropy, and underground economies tend (for better or worse) to be pretty adaptive.

Also, i'd ask if Yroc's exposure here might share (unintended) similarity, in some respects, w/ the Podcast you mention? i'm making grand assumptions, but suspect your Podcast also described the said practices in some detail? Perhaps w/ more empathy, but in the end, they're both revealing.

In any case, i would suspect the beer store itself is likely to catch on long before the province does?

Anyway, that's a major digression ... not that this thread had much to do w/ food in the first place.

Byward Market Panhandler Chutzpah.

My son and I were walking around the market last night, enjoying the warm summer evening and looking for Shwarma Palace.

This young fit man in his 20's comes up to my son and says he's hungry and flat broke so could he spare some change for food.

I'm skeptical, but my son says sure and takes out his wallet and gives him a toonie. I should add my son is 15 and has a part time job at minimum wage at a bakery, washing dishes and baking pans and the cooking implements, and also making bread dough by kneading (by hand).

The guy says "can you give me a lot more ?" I say "it's enough"

On the way back the same guy stops my son again, not remembering us, gives the same speech about being hungry and having no money. My son says politely "I gave you some money already"

And the guy says "Well can you give me more?"

Geez it takes my son an hour of dishwashing to earn $10, not including the cost in gas for me and my wife to drop him to work after school.

This guy looked perfectly capable of work, but here he is demanding money from a kid who earned it the hard way. It's chutzpah right ?

One day I had just picked up fresh fruit from the market, then ran into the LCBO at King Edward & Rideau.

A young guy approaches me in the parking lot and asks for money - because he was hungry. I offer him to grab some plums from the basket I just bought. He declined.

I guess he wasnt tooo hungry afterall...

Maybe is was hungry for something other than food.

And yet.....My husband and I were walking down Bronson one day and just outside a Pizza Pizza outlet a 50ish or so man approached us for money as he said he was hungry. He said all he wanted was enough for one slice of pizza. So, instead of giving him money, we offered to buy him some pizza. So in we went and said we would buy him as much as he wanted. I think he downed about three large pieces. An incredulous look came over his face when we asked him what kind of a drink he wanted. He said something along the lines of "pizza and a drink TOO"? Well yes, we said. Can't eat pizza without something to wash it down. When we parted ways he looked a lot happier than when we first met.

In a similar vein, I have also,purchased dog food for the panhandler that sits with his German Shepherd outside of the IGA at Bank and Somerset.

Bravo Felinefan!

This has prompted me to read the OP's comment. Wow. I have far greater taxing worries than some dude that "stole" my glass bottles and cashed them in at a Beer Store that isn't capable of recognizing bottles that have had deposit paid on them or not.

The time wasted between waiting for said bum to stroll past, following him to the nearest creek, watching them wash off the labels, calling The Beer Store and Province(?)....

Perhaps that time would have been better spent taking them out for a bite to eat and listening to their story. Or go live with them for a day and see how you feel afterwards. The problem isn't "the bum", it's that The Beer Store can't distinguish the bottles...but I'm sure there are enough smashed/never returned bottle/cans to make up for the small amount of "illegal bottles" that are being returned. In that vein; are you SURE they were paid for those bottles?? The Beer Store will take back any recyclable bottle or can, but won't pay for the ones that are from out of province or pop bottles etc....You did follow them in when they "cashed in", right?

If a guy wants to go through the bother of sorting thru my recycling box, he can have my empties. He clearly needs the money more than i do.

Some guys asked my daughter for money in the market, saying they were hungry. She had some sushi takeout, so he asked them if they wanted some sushi and they were really happy to have it.

On the other hand, I did work in the market for two years, and could tell other stories.

Once a guy in a suit ran up to a colleague and said "I'm from Montreal and lost my wallet, credit cards, ID, everything. Can you spare me $20 to get a shuttle to the train ? So he gives him the $20.

Two weeks later, on the way to work, same guy in the suit, same story about the lost wallet. :-)

Apparently there are orange parking meters in the Market, called "kindness meters". The city has put them in to discourage people from giving money to panhandlers. All the money from the kindness meters goes to legitimate shelters and services for the hungry and homeless.

www.givesmartottawa.ca/

Quote:

DONATE TO KINDNESS METERS OR SERVICES THAT HELP THE HOMELESS

Giving money to panhandlers often supports drug and alcohol addiction.
Help them make a real-life change by giving to agencies that make a difference.

Is it legal to put money in someone else's expired "kindness meter" ? ... and say: "I'm donating to charity".