The great pizza debate [General]
2007 Dec 13
Interesting topic, Pasta lover. I had actually just decided that if I had to eat only one food for the rest of my life, it would be pizza - simply because it is so versatile. I appreciate both thick and thin crust pizzas, depending on my mood, but my all-time favourite is the Alla Patricia from Woodenheads in Kingston.
The Alla Patricia (which I first ordered because my name is Alanna Patricia) is a thin, crisp wood oven-fired crust with a nice tomato sauce, sauteed cremini mushrooms, red onions, spinach and feta. Heaven on a plate! I've tried to replicate that pizza at home, but when I make crust myself, it's always a thicker, doughier crust.
The Alla Patricia (which I first ordered because my name is Alanna Patricia) is a thin, crisp wood oven-fired crust with a nice tomato sauce, sauteed cremini mushrooms, red onions, spinach and feta. Heaven on a plate! I've tried to replicate that pizza at home, but when I make crust myself, it's always a thicker, doughier crust.
2007 Dec 13
My fav in the city , and not the world , is The Verona from La Favorita on Preston.Verona: Five cheeses, red onions, tomatoes, (home made walnut/pine nut based)pesto. Onions and tomato slices on top of the cheeses......... $13.00s $18.00m $25.00l . Take out is different than one at the rest. Built differently.
I remember the first one, Nick Shallal, made for me and my new wife . (circa 4BC Before Childern or 1986). He had only been open a few days with his new wood burning oven and boy, was he trying to impress.
I have not seen Nick in years. I wonder if he is still trying to impress.
I remember the first one, Nick Shallal, made for me and my new wife . (circa 4BC Before Childern or 1986). He had only been open a few days with his new wood burning oven and boy, was he trying to impress.
I have not seen Nick in years. I wonder if he is still trying to impress.
2007 Dec 13
Great comments so far! Thanks for the tip off Alanna since I might be going to Kingston in the spring. Haven't been in ages and Woodenheads might hit the spot. I also remember going to a pub there a few years ago that served Dragon's Breath ale I just wish I could remember the name of the place...
Captain Caper have you been to La Favorita lately? I used to go there regularly about 10 years ago or so and recall enjoying their calzones. But a friend has been there "recently" which is probably more like a couple of years ago and she says the quality of pizzas seems to be declining... Just wondering if you had a more recent experience and could give your opinion...
Captain Caper have you been to La Favorita lately? I used to go there regularly about 10 years ago or so and recall enjoying their calzones. But a friend has been there "recently" which is probably more like a couple of years ago and she says the quality of pizzas seems to be declining... Just wondering if you had a more recent experience and could give your opinion...
2007 Dec 13
w.r.t. La Favorita, it's a long story with a short question : which La Favorita? There was the original on Preston which moved to Vanier. Then another place opened up on Preston with the same name. And then I recall my wife telling me recently that the original moved back to Preston now, and maybe even that the Ersatz one is still there.
We used to love their Calzones, too. About 4 years ago. Until we figured out how easy they are to make ourselves :-)
We used to love their Calzones, too. About 4 years ago. Until we figured out how easy they are to make ourselves :-)
2007 Dec 13
Hey Pasta Lover,
Sorry, but my pizza suggetion was based on past and fond memories. I'm willing to try La Favorita on Preston again. Both my daughters have been ... last month and had the Verona... said it was good.
To clarrify the multiple La Favorita's, from their current web page :
In 1986, when Nick Shallal came to Ottawa after years in the Mediterranean, he introduced the concept of gourmet pizzas after he opened La Favorita as a small takeout restaurant on Preston Street. Nick pioneered the woodburning oven to make his designer seafood pizzas and calzones among thebest in the nation's capital. Word spread quickly; within a few months rave reviews appeared in the Ottawa Citizen, Toronto Star and even the New York Times, bringing so many customers that he had to expand to meet the demand for his delectable pizzas, calzones, and salads. The great food, atmosphere and mood created by La Favoritals generous host and chef, Nick Shallal, has kept everyone coming back.
After a brief move to a larger location on McArthur Road, where hundreds of loyal customers followed, Nick is proud to be back where it all began.
To add to any confusion.. the people that took over Nick's original location kept a similar menu. La Dolce Vita
There take on Nick's original Verona is :
Cinque Formaggi (Five Cheese) $13.95s $21.95m $24.95l
Five cheeses, hazelnut pesto, sliced fresh tomatoes,
red onions, mushrooms
The only pizza I like, that I had recently, was a Carlo's Special Carlo's Pizzeria.
In the K/S , Colonnade , and does anyone remember El Torro's ???, style . The west end pizza joint were a black dressed Italian Mama would serve you. Now home to the Britainia Pub on Richmond near Carling. ohh those were the days... before 2 for 1 pizza and cheese by Dupont.
Sorry, but my pizza suggetion was based on past and fond memories. I'm willing to try La Favorita on Preston again. Both my daughters have been ... last month and had the Verona... said it was good.
To clarrify the multiple La Favorita's, from their current web page :
In 1986, when Nick Shallal came to Ottawa after years in the Mediterranean, he introduced the concept of gourmet pizzas after he opened La Favorita as a small takeout restaurant on Preston Street. Nick pioneered the woodburning oven to make his designer seafood pizzas and calzones among thebest in the nation's capital. Word spread quickly; within a few months rave reviews appeared in the Ottawa Citizen, Toronto Star and even the New York Times, bringing so many customers that he had to expand to meet the demand for his delectable pizzas, calzones, and salads. The great food, atmosphere and mood created by La Favoritals generous host and chef, Nick Shallal, has kept everyone coming back.
After a brief move to a larger location on McArthur Road, where hundreds of loyal customers followed, Nick is proud to be back where it all began.
To add to any confusion.. the people that took over Nick's original location kept a similar menu. La Dolce Vita
There take on Nick's original Verona is :
Cinque Formaggi (Five Cheese) $13.95s $21.95m $24.95l
Five cheeses, hazelnut pesto, sliced fresh tomatoes,
red onions, mushrooms
The only pizza I like, that I had recently, was a Carlo's Special Carlo's Pizzeria.
In the K/S , Colonnade , and does anyone remember El Torro's ???, style . The west end pizza joint were a black dressed Italian Mama would serve you. Now home to the Britainia Pub on Richmond near Carling. ohh those were the days... before 2 for 1 pizza and cheese by Dupont.
2007 Dec 13
Thanks for the feedback Captain Caper. I also have past fond memories of La Favorita. I guess I will have to pay a visit to Preston Street over the holidays and check them out! I would also vote for Carlos - completely forgot about them! - although I don't know El Torro's. It sounds intriguing though...
2007 Dec 13
Pasta Lover - Dragon's Breath Ale is served by and brewed by (?) the Brew Pub. I was there for lunch in fact a couple of weeks ago!
Pizza - I work over in Hull and we often go to a pizza place here called Naples Pizza. It's basically the hull version of Colonnade with the pizza served on the raised platters and a very casual decor. Crust is thick but light and crunchy. I always get bacon and pineapple and it's delicious.....
If anyone is interested in trying it, it's at 70 Rue Montcalm which is the street parallel to and west of Eddy street.
Other than that I can second Woodenheads - we have friends in Kingston so are there all the time - awesome pizza!
Pizza - I work over in Hull and we often go to a pizza place here called Naples Pizza. It's basically the hull version of Colonnade with the pizza served on the raised platters and a very casual decor. Crust is thick but light and crunchy. I always get bacon and pineapple and it's delicious.....
If anyone is interested in trying it, it's at 70 Rue Montcalm which is the street parallel to and west of Eddy street.
Other than that I can second Woodenheads - we have friends in Kingston so are there all the time - awesome pizza!
2007 Dec 13
"El Toro is still in Ottawa. It's now a food court spot at Minto Place downtown. Still tastes the same though. Or at least it did two years ago when I was last there."
Oh no. I don't think it tastes the same at all. When I started working in the Minto Place building years ago I was on cloud 9 when I saw the El Toro stand. I loved the El Toro restaurant on Richmond Road and can still taste the sauce. I confirmed with the owner that they were the same family, heaped massive praise on their previous incarnation and took a couple of slices back to my desk for lunch where I was severely let down. The pizza was good but not even close to the original recipe.
Oh no. I don't think it tastes the same at all. When I started working in the Minto Place building years ago I was on cloud 9 when I saw the El Toro stand. I loved the El Toro restaurant on Richmond Road and can still taste the sauce. I confirmed with the owner that they were the same family, heaped massive praise on their previous incarnation and took a couple of slices back to my desk for lunch where I was severely let down. The pizza was good but not even close to the original recipe.
2007 Dec 13
Actually, that doesn't clarify the "La Favorita" mystery, because there was 2 of them in operation at the same time. It started on Preston and when they moved to McArthur, the the people who bought the original place on Preston kept the name "La Favorita" as well as a very similar menu. So there were 2 of them but they didn't have anything to do with each other. But apparantly the original guy moved back recently from McArthur back to Preston, and I guess when that happened the other one on Preston changed their name to La Dolce Vita. That's my understanding at least. My wife and I have been following the soap opera for a number of years now.
So if you say "it was the one on Preston", it unfortunately still doesn't answer the question "which one did you go to?". You'd have to know where on Preston and when you went there.
Yup, confusing as hell ... I suspect the website over-simplifies things because there is likely a huge soap opera behind the real truth to the story.
I only know that I've never eaten Nick Shallal's food. But I've definitely eaten quite a bit at La Favorita on Preston.
So if you say "it was the one on Preston", it unfortunately still doesn't answer the question "which one did you go to?". You'd have to know where on Preston and when you went there.
Yup, confusing as hell ... I suspect the website over-simplifies things because there is likely a huge soap opera behind the real truth to the story.
I only know that I've never eaten Nick Shallal's food. But I've definitely eaten quite a bit at La Favorita on Preston.
2007 Dec 13
With all this talk about the Kingston Brew Pub and Woodenheads... ahh I couldn't resist... I love both of those places. I have fond memories of both from my years in Kingston.
La Favorita was good the last time I went on Preston, which was years ago... and they've moved since and perhaps have changed management. If they use the same recipe, it's good stuff. La Pergola used to be excellent, but after a few years of declining quality, I think they finally closed up shop. Pavarazzi's made a good pie the last time I ate one there, again, it's been years... I've stopped eating a lot of Ottawa pizza because I find it's been taken over by the ultra-doughy, super-vulcanized-rubber-cheesy, waaay-too-sweet-tomato-saucy... just not good-y.
I have to say, I am a fan of the Oetkers frozen pizza (the funghi one the most), and I'm also a fan of the PC Chicago style deep dish pizza. Yum.
La Favorita was good the last time I went on Preston, which was years ago... and they've moved since and perhaps have changed management. If they use the same recipe, it's good stuff. La Pergola used to be excellent, but after a few years of declining quality, I think they finally closed up shop. Pavarazzi's made a good pie the last time I ate one there, again, it's been years... I've stopped eating a lot of Ottawa pizza because I find it's been taken over by the ultra-doughy, super-vulcanized-rubber-cheesy, waaay-too-sweet-tomato-saucy... just not good-y.
I have to say, I am a fan of the Oetkers frozen pizza (the funghi one the most), and I'm also a fan of the PC Chicago style deep dish pizza. Yum.
2007 Dec 13
I like thin crust and thick crust pizzas equally...when I saw the title of this topic, I actually thought that the "great pizza debate" had to do with topping placement....for me it's everything on top of the cheese (except pepperoni, which I don't like but I usually get one for the kids). Toppings CLEARLY belong on top of the cheese, where they can be seen (looks nicer) and removed by picky children(practical).
Also, for thin crust pizza try making a pita dough recipe...in my pre-pastry days I worked as a line cook for the Canal Ritz, and the dough we used for the pizzas make excellent pitas (I have actually heard from someone that this is the secret of their thin crust pizzas, pita dough). When we got tired of pizzas we would roll out one or two of the doughs and make pita sandwiches for ourselves. We also had a tradition of Saturday morning sit down breakfast, when one dozen eggs (broken) and a couple of pounds of bacon (dropped on the floor ;) would mysteriously end up on the Waste and Spill sheet.
Also, for thin crust pizza try making a pita dough recipe...in my pre-pastry days I worked as a line cook for the Canal Ritz, and the dough we used for the pizzas make excellent pitas (I have actually heard from someone that this is the secret of their thin crust pizzas, pita dough). When we got tired of pizzas we would roll out one or two of the doughs and make pita sandwiches for ourselves. We also had a tradition of Saturday morning sit down breakfast, when one dozen eggs (broken) and a couple of pounds of bacon (dropped on the floor ;) would mysteriously end up on the Waste and Spill sheet.
2007 Dec 14
I like both thin and thick crust - both have their place. Toppings I'm pretty flexible though I'm not a big fan of less traditional toppings like pineapple.
Lately I've been doing something that a lot of the guys on my brewers mailing list have been doing - keeping fresh pizza dough in the fridge. I always have some on the go in there, and after using some I replenish it. Really develops a wonderful sourdough flavour.
Usually my pizza goes like this :
- dough
- sauce - typically just out-of-the-jar pasta sauce, either home made or bought
- meat / pepperoni or similar
- mushrooms / olives / onions / peppers
- cheese - mozza, cheddar, hard cheese (grated parmesan or similar)
I mix it up slighly differently for the boys - they don't like onions or peppers
Gonna make pizza tonight in fact
Lately I've been doing something that a lot of the guys on my brewers mailing list have been doing - keeping fresh pizza dough in the fridge. I always have some on the go in there, and after using some I replenish it. Really develops a wonderful sourdough flavour.
Usually my pizza goes like this :
- dough
- sauce - typically just out-of-the-jar pasta sauce, either home made or bought
- meat / pepperoni or similar
- mushrooms / olives / onions / peppers
- cheese - mozza, cheddar, hard cheese (grated parmesan or similar)
I mix it up slighly differently for the boys - they don't like onions or peppers
Gonna make pizza tonight in fact
2007 Dec 14
Fav toppings, not grouped, meaning, I don't put all them on at the same time, just some of them. They do have groupings that go well together.
Meats:
Usually not 'pepperoni' but a quaility salami, say Genovese
chicken
left over fajita meat
tried smoked meat once... weird
various hams
oil packed anchoivies
Veg:
the usual peppers
purple onion
validalia onion
shallots, roasted garlic
mushrooms.. all kinds except dried or shitake
tomato slices (when ya can get the good ones)
Kalamata or Spanish or nicoise olives
Capers
Fresh basil, parsley, greek oregano (as opposed to my Nicaragaun oregano)
Cheeses:
Buffalo Soldier.... whoops.... Buffalo Mozza
Provolone
Feta (espaically with the sun dries tomatoes and caper berries... mmm...)
Almost any hard cheese even gouda.
I save my Stilton and Gorganzola for better things , like a bottle of good plunk
There are others but can't recall all them now.
Strangest thing I tried, was the smoked meat (Schwartz's). How about you fello Foodies, What's the strangest topping you ever had on a pizza ??
Meats:
Usually not 'pepperoni' but a quaility salami, say Genovese
chicken
left over fajita meat
tried smoked meat once... weird
various hams
oil packed anchoivies
Veg:
the usual peppers
purple onion
validalia onion
shallots, roasted garlic
mushrooms.. all kinds except dried or shitake
tomato slices (when ya can get the good ones)
Kalamata or Spanish or nicoise olives
Capers
Fresh basil, parsley, greek oregano (as opposed to my Nicaragaun oregano)
Cheeses:
Buffalo Soldier.... whoops.... Buffalo Mozza
Provolone
Feta (espaically with the sun dries tomatoes and caper berries... mmm...)
Almost any hard cheese even gouda.
I save my Stilton and Gorganzola for better things , like a bottle of good plunk
There are others but can't recall all them now.
Strangest thing I tried, was the smoked meat (Schwartz's). How about you fello Foodies, What's the strangest topping you ever had on a pizza ??
2007 Dec 14
N8: I made my own for a while with my food processor, but since then I've switched to buying it from Nicastro's. I freely admit that it's because I'm lazy and hate cleaning out my appliances, but I'm sure it only works out to an extra buck or two a pizza.
All you have to do is knead it a bit, proof it, and roll it out. You do need a lot of extra flour, I find. It's pretty sticky when they give it to you.
All you have to do is knead it a bit, proof it, and roll it out. You do need a lot of extra flour, I find. It's pretty sticky when they give it to you.
2007 Dec 14
ksw thanks for the name of the Brew Pub in Kingston and I'm pretty sure they sell their own brew - as a matter of fact I think (but don't quote me) that the only brew they sell is their own.
Mousseline also had a great idea of placing the cheese on top first then the toppings. Don't know why I didn't think of that. I often do that with my soups especially when eating cream of cauliflower - I just put a few shavings of stilton in the bowl then pour in some piping hot soup.
As I mentioned earlier my favourite purchased pizzas are from the Colonade, Bread and Sons and Carlos. But if I make my own I usually use one of those Pita Break breakfast pitas, tomato sauce (usually home made) then whatever I have in the fridge. Right now it's roast veggies but I have also used a black olive and chopped pepper combination with a blue cheese on top and other times carmelized onion and mushroom combination with emmenthal on top.
Thanks for posting your replies it's always fun learning what other people like!
Mousseline also had a great idea of placing the cheese on top first then the toppings. Don't know why I didn't think of that. I often do that with my soups especially when eating cream of cauliflower - I just put a few shavings of stilton in the bowl then pour in some piping hot soup.
As I mentioned earlier my favourite purchased pizzas are from the Colonade, Bread and Sons and Carlos. But if I make my own I usually use one of those Pita Break breakfast pitas, tomato sauce (usually home made) then whatever I have in the fridge. Right now it's roast veggies but I have also used a black olive and chopped pepper combination with a blue cheese on top and other times carmelized onion and mushroom combination with emmenthal on top.
Thanks for posting your replies it's always fun learning what other people like!
2007 Dec 14
Oh, if you like thin-crust pizza but don't want to make your own, we've done this a lot. Just get a flat bread and load it up. Works extremely well! Cooking time is shorter though, so keep your eye on it at first. You can use all manner of flat bread from wraps on up to the thicker greek style ones.
2007 Dec 14
to buy pizza dough, try the grocery store or one of the bakeries on preston. i have bought it at the bakery near the bridge under the 417. Also, you can buy it at parma ravioli. i usually split the pizza dough in half for two pizzas. if you have a cast iron frying pan, it makes a great deep dish pizza, just oil it a little first.
2007 Dec 16
ksw, I have been to Naples in Hull and it was AWESOME! My friend (a hull native) took me there a couple of years ago and we had the bacon pizza - just bacon, cheese and sauce - it was perfect.
I like a thick crust if the pizza is homemade (i.e. not a thick pizza hut style crust) and a thin crust is good, too depending on mood and level of hunger.
My favorite pizza right now is the Eggplant Pizza from House of Georgie's on Gilmour. It is somewhat non-traditional (let's say exercising their poetic license) because it has a spiced meat sauce (kind of like what you eat in a moussala), garlic and eggplant slices COVERED in cheese. They also make their own garlic sauce which is tremendous.
This pizza is so good that BF and I actually call it "The Magic Pizza". As in, "Do you think we should order The Magic Pizza?" since it's one of those things you just can't have every day.
I like a thick crust if the pizza is homemade (i.e. not a thick pizza hut style crust) and a thin crust is good, too depending on mood and level of hunger.
My favorite pizza right now is the Eggplant Pizza from House of Georgie's on Gilmour. It is somewhat non-traditional (let's say exercising their poetic license) because it has a spiced meat sauce (kind of like what you eat in a moussala), garlic and eggplant slices COVERED in cheese. They also make their own garlic sauce which is tremendous.
This pizza is so good that BF and I actually call it "The Magic Pizza". As in, "Do you think we should order The Magic Pizza?" since it's one of those things you just can't have every day.
Pasta lover