Food vs. Service [General]
2009 Sep 17
I personally don't care about service at all and really only consider food when deciding whether to go to a restaurant, so much so that I find myself skipping over parts of restaurant reviews discussing the great (or terrible) service. Front of house conduct would have to be egregious in order to turn me off of a place for good.
I also don't tend to frequent many really high end places, so perhaps my service expectations are reduced because of that.
I also don't tend to frequent many really high end places, so perhaps my service expectations are reduced because of that.
2009 Sep 17
A restaurant really must have both. I will tolerate slightly off service if the food is good or excellent. If I get bad service, I will never be back, no matter how good the food is, it really ruins the whole experience.
There are just too many restaurants with good food AND good service to settle for anything less....
And if any servers are reading this...stop clearing plates until the entire table is finished.. (one of my biggest pet peeves) :)
There are just too many restaurants with good food AND good service to settle for anything less....
And if any servers are reading this...stop clearing plates until the entire table is finished.. (one of my biggest pet peeves) :)
2009 Sep 17
Unfortunately, that is bad etiquette on the diners part. Thinking of themselves (sitting with a dirty plate in front of them) instead of those around them who have yet to finish. This is a really bad North American habit. I will often not return to a restaurant if it is done by more than one server.
2009 Sep 17
I'm conflicted.
I've been the slower eater before and I feel really rushed if everyone else is done, dishes are cleared, and dessert menus are being passed around.
However, I have also eaten with a *painfully* slow eater and got sick of staring at my empty plate.
I think there is a line to be drawn on both sides.
I've been the slower eater before and I feel really rushed if everyone else is done, dishes are cleared, and dessert menus are being passed around.
However, I have also eaten with a *painfully* slow eater and got sick of staring at my empty plate.
I think there is a line to be drawn on both sides.
2009 Sep 17
I think we (collectively) are once again getting obsessed with rules. Should the server do this, or should they do that. For me, good service is when it revolves around the needs and desires of the client, not the ease of the server, or the establishment. Most times, ( I believe ) it is in the interests of the clients to not have plates removed until a détente has been reached by the guests at the table (which may or may not occur when everyone is finished). It seems far too often the server removes plates, not because it is 'time' but because they were walking by, and would rather not make another trip (although they inevitably would). I've been at places where, both plates were done, but myself and the missus were busy talking and staring into each others eyes, to be interrupted by the server reaching in, and removing plates from the table... very RUDE. Other times, I've been amazed as I suddenly wake up to the reality around me of a cleaned table that seemed to happen magically when I blinked my eyes. Really good service isn't stuff you notice, it's stuff that happens without you noticing.
Oh yes..the topic.. Food first, service a close second.
Oh yes..the topic.. Food first, service a close second.
2009 Sep 17
Good service is top priority for me. I had wonderful service in two restaurants that I would consider mediocre and that is actually what keeps me going back to one of them. (In addition said restaurant is close to home.)
As for plates I am also irked by waiters that take plates away before everyone is finished. I am a notoriously fast eater so I don't want my dining companions to feel they are rushed. I am very patient so I don't mind waiting.
As for plates I am also irked by waiters that take plates away before everyone is finished. I am a notoriously fast eater so I don't want my dining companions to feel they are rushed. I am very patient so I don't mind waiting.
2009 Sep 17
Ah yes, the "Plate Debate".... of course this was extensively covered in a previous post entitled Rules for Waiters - www.ottawafoodies.com
As for Food vs Service... I'm sort of middle of the road, if both are "acceptable" I will most likely return... If one is incredibly bad I won't be back... Both "amazing" and I will not only willingly come back, but tell EVERYONE I know.
As for Food vs Service... I'm sort of middle of the road, if both are "acceptable" I will most likely return... If one is incredibly bad I won't be back... Both "amazing" and I will not only willingly come back, but tell EVERYONE I know.
2009 Sep 17
being a Chef, former resto owner and former server at two 5 star - 5 diamond resorts, it's a quandry to me
Food is paramount but I take it for what it is
if it declares it's high end blahblahhearfinedining establishment and more than 25$ an entree, I'm expecting decent food, fresh and freshly cooked, need not be exotic readblahblahsumthingsumthing, and for gawdssake keep the list of ingredients to 10 or less and NO food porn (I've eliminated most of it from my menu)...it need not be there and is always subjective
if it says authentic, I expect there to either be family recipes or regional traditions adhered to... if it declares it Pesto Genovese it better be from Genoa otherwise it is merely basil pesto
as for service,
that is dictated by ownership and management (lordlyloo, I KNOW!!! GRRR) and I'm not so picky if the server/resto is swamped but chewing gum is a NO!, playing with your hair is a NO!, clipping nails...for freakssake. I want to see you wash your hands at least once while I'm there
SMILE!
you're a salesperson, at least take the effort to know the menu and beverages
and don't make promises before checking with the kitchen, I will change my order to another dish (as a Chef, I hate when servers do it...."sure the Kitchen will add blahblah to your dish....hmm, what happens if I don't have blahblah in my pantry/cooler?)
now, as for the plate clearingthingie, it's a personal choice and the server should ask first. I've quit jobs, because the owner has asked me to do so while the patron waves me away
*steps off soapbox and grabs a martini*
Food is paramount but I take it for what it is
if it declares it's high end blahblahhearfinedining establishment and more than 25$ an entree, I'm expecting decent food, fresh and freshly cooked, need not be exotic readblahblahsumthingsumthing, and for gawdssake keep the list of ingredients to 10 or less and NO food porn (I've eliminated most of it from my menu)...it need not be there and is always subjective
if it says authentic, I expect there to either be family recipes or regional traditions adhered to... if it declares it Pesto Genovese it better be from Genoa otherwise it is merely basil pesto
as for service,
that is dictated by ownership and management (lordlyloo, I KNOW!!! GRRR) and I'm not so picky if the server/resto is swamped but chewing gum is a NO!, playing with your hair is a NO!, clipping nails...for freakssake. I want to see you wash your hands at least once while I'm there
SMILE!
you're a salesperson, at least take the effort to know the menu and beverages
and don't make promises before checking with the kitchen, I will change my order to another dish (as a Chef, I hate when servers do it...."sure the Kitchen will add blahblah to your dish....hmm, what happens if I don't have blahblah in my pantry/cooler?)
now, as for the plate clearingthingie, it's a personal choice and the server should ask first. I've quit jobs, because the owner has asked me to do so while the patron waves me away
*steps off soapbox and grabs a martini*
2009 Sep 17
Nice rant Obi! I've seen gum chewing and hair twirling, both I could not tolerate while I was a manager, but NAIL CLIPPING??? THAT'S a story I'd LOVE to hear.
As far as food VS service...well...at a high end restaurant I'd expect both. Or what's the point of paying so much for lousy food or snotty service. Of course, fast food is what I can afford, but the cashier can at LEAST smile. Apparently it's free at McD's.
But if either happened when I (and my gf) go out to eat, I would give them a second chance another time just in case it was a "bad day" for the place. Buuuttt if I had to pick, ultimately...food. If you go back often enough, you can comment to the manager how bad service is and hopefully they'll do something about it.
As far as food VS service...well...at a high end restaurant I'd expect both. Or what's the point of paying so much for lousy food or snotty service. Of course, fast food is what I can afford, but the cashier can at LEAST smile. Apparently it's free at McD's.
But if either happened when I (and my gf) go out to eat, I would give them a second chance another time just in case it was a "bad day" for the place. Buuuttt if I had to pick, ultimately...food. If you go back often enough, you can comment to the manager how bad service is and hopefully they'll do something about it.
2009 Sep 17
Food is generally more important than service to me, but if the food isn't a bargain then the service better be good!
re: clearing plates
Isn't it obvious? Knife and fork spread apart means leave the plate on the table. Knife and fork together with handles pointing to 4 (or 5) o'clock means take the plate away. Let the diner decide!
re: clearing plates
Isn't it obvious? Knife and fork spread apart means leave the plate on the table. Knife and fork together with handles pointing to 4 (or 5) o'clock means take the plate away. Let the diner decide!
2009 Sep 17
I would like to clarify my previous post after reading some of the comments here. We don't clear plates away if people are eating or if their fork and knife are in the "don't clear me yet" position. However, if the fork and knife are in the "clear me" position... I'm going to take the setting away.
2009 Sep 18
Snoopy - Not to address this to you personally... but this has been raised in the previous Topic Rules for Waiters (see link above) and all the pros and cons were debated then... I will say the following, ONLY because it hasn't been stated here in this topic.
I don't like it when the plates are cleared away before everyone is done eating... I find it quite rude to my table mates who may still be eating. What I do like (and appreciate tip wise) is when I have "dressed my plate" (knife & fork located in the finished position) and the waiter comes by and says:
"Can I take that for you?"
To which then I have a choice... say YES
or, turn to my table mate (who is still eating) and say "Are you ok with that?" (if it is such that we have a friendly relationship... a more casual circumstance than say a business lunch, etc.).
This I find presents a clear path to the action happening, without my being overtly rude to my table mate.
It also satisfies the need for a waiter who is keen, or simplifies it for those who don't want to sit with plates in front of them. BUT it also gives ME the opportunity to say "NO, its ok, I'll wait until we are both done". (such as that aforementioned business lunch).
Simple solution to the Plate Debate, gives the power over to the Guest and not the Waiter, which is where it should be (remembering that these "etiquette rules" were originally based on how a servant conducted himself in the dining room).
If one pays attention, you'll actually see that this quick unpretentious, mostly overlooked conversation goes on in some of the finer restaurants. It is the classy answer to the problem... as it satisfies those who support one side of the Plate Debate or the other.
I don't like it when the plates are cleared away before everyone is done eating... I find it quite rude to my table mates who may still be eating. What I do like (and appreciate tip wise) is when I have "dressed my plate" (knife & fork located in the finished position) and the waiter comes by and says:
"Can I take that for you?"
To which then I have a choice... say YES
or, turn to my table mate (who is still eating) and say "Are you ok with that?" (if it is such that we have a friendly relationship... a more casual circumstance than say a business lunch, etc.).
This I find presents a clear path to the action happening, without my being overtly rude to my table mate.
It also satisfies the need for a waiter who is keen, or simplifies it for those who don't want to sit with plates in front of them. BUT it also gives ME the opportunity to say "NO, its ok, I'll wait until we are both done". (such as that aforementioned business lunch).
Simple solution to the Plate Debate, gives the power over to the Guest and not the Waiter, which is where it should be (remembering that these "etiquette rules" were originally based on how a servant conducted himself in the dining room).
If one pays attention, you'll actually see that this quick unpretentious, mostly overlooked conversation goes on in some of the finer restaurants. It is the classy answer to the problem... as it satisfies those who support one side of the Plate Debate or the other.
2009 Sep 19
I want good food and good service when I dine out at what is a "good" resaurant; I can forgive a server who clears the plates without asking if someone is still eating though it does bother me, leaving the dishes until everyone is done is best with me.
One of the restaurants I never went back to was Le Metro in it's first location on Elgin because the owner treated us with some disdain when we arrived and she seated us, and again when we left - that was so unforgiveable it PO'd the 4 of us none of us returned to any of their eventual locations, even though the food was really, really good. It was interesting to read some weeks later the Citizen restaurant reviewer had negative reactions to the same (I assume) woman's attitude to her and her guests.
In the end, the food matters most to me usually, but there are rare exceptions.
One of the restaurants I never went back to was Le Metro in it's first location on Elgin because the owner treated us with some disdain when we arrived and she seated us, and again when we left - that was so unforgiveable it PO'd the 4 of us none of us returned to any of their eventual locations, even though the food was really, really good. It was interesting to read some weeks later the Citizen restaurant reviewer had negative reactions to the same (I assume) woman's attitude to her and her guests.
In the end, the food matters most to me usually, but there are rare exceptions.
2009 Sep 21
"I will tolerate slightly off service if the food is good or excellent." - I COSIGN.
I can relate this to my experience with the Shoppers Drug Mart in my community. There are a couple of employees in the beauty section who are quite snobby and unattentive, but I love the shoppers optimum program and any other shoppers drug mart would be out of my way. there have been times where I wanted to stop going there but in the end, im saving money and they always have the products I need.
But if I were to receive outright rude service with okay food that can generally be found anywhere, then the answer should be quite obvious (cough *elephant and castle* cough) - I would never go back!
I can relate this to my experience with the Shoppers Drug Mart in my community. There are a couple of employees in the beauty section who are quite snobby and unattentive, but I love the shoppers optimum program and any other shoppers drug mart would be out of my way. there have been times where I wanted to stop going there but in the end, im saving money and they always have the products I need.
But if I were to receive outright rude service with okay food that can generally be found anywhere, then the answer should be quite obvious (cough *elephant and castle* cough) - I would never go back!
2009 Sep 24
HI, I generally stay out of the forum but since it's about service as a Restaurateur I have my opinions...
Don’t get me wrong, food is an important part of any successful restaurant but the food is rarely the main reason places become popular, lots of restaurants have opened with great food & failed, others have opened with a horrific product & stay afloat (I don't like to name places but I'm sure all of us wonder occasionally about different places & how they stay in business)
Service & comfort ability are paramount in our industry, from the initial greeting until you've received your cheque (personal peeve of mine is trying to hunt down a server for my bill).
As far as clearing plates, it's proper etiquette to remove all plates at the same time BUT more often than not the client is unaware of this practice My suggestion (which has already been mentioned) is if the diner has pushed his/her plate away with the knife & fork in the 'finished position' is to simply ask politely 'Shall I remove your plate?'
Thanks
Terry
Don’t get me wrong, food is an important part of any successful restaurant but the food is rarely the main reason places become popular, lots of restaurants have opened with great food & failed, others have opened with a horrific product & stay afloat (I don't like to name places but I'm sure all of us wonder occasionally about different places & how they stay in business)
Service & comfort ability are paramount in our industry, from the initial greeting until you've received your cheque (personal peeve of mine is trying to hunt down a server for my bill).
As far as clearing plates, it's proper etiquette to remove all plates at the same time BUT more often than not the client is unaware of this practice My suggestion (which has already been mentioned) is if the diner has pushed his/her plate away with the knife & fork in the 'finished position' is to simply ask politely 'Shall I remove your plate?'
Thanks
Terry
2009 Sep 25
I can relate this to my experience with the Shoppers Drug Mart in my community. There are a couple of employees in the beauty section who are quite snobby and unattentive, but I love the shoppers optimum program and any other shoppers drug mart would be out of my way. there have been times where I wanted to stop going there but in the end, im saving money and they always have the products I need.
if you're talking about a chain restaurant, then sure, your experience at SDM is relevant. but, if you're referring to an independent, where the manager is also the owner, then IMO the service becomes a lot more important, because there aren't these types of programs to keep you from ignoring the snobby twenty-somethings who are only making $11 an hour.
if you're talking about a chain restaurant, then sure, your experience at SDM is relevant. but, if you're referring to an independent, where the manager is also the owner, then IMO the service becomes a lot more important, because there aren't these types of programs to keep you from ignoring the snobby twenty-somethings who are only making $11 an hour.
Jojo
Which is more important to you - good food or good service? (Obviously having both being the best would be optimal...perfect world...)
I said that I would return to a restaurant that had B+ food and A+ service vs. the other way around. One bad service event will turn me off for good, but I could tolerate a less than steallar kitchen performance.
What do you guys think?
J~