BYOW Ottawa/Hull [Food/Vendor]
2009 Apr 17
Cool... sort of. I am offended by a $20 or $25 corkage fee. For that, they should let you keep the glasses too! For all those offenders who have $20+ corkage fees in Ottawa, you'll find that this Ottawa Foodie is less likely to visit your establishment. And for the ones that offer BHTR (Bring Home The Rest), but only on particular days, shame on you too. Does your re-corker only work on certain days? I find a moral difference between paying for the service, and paying a restaurant their obscene markups on a bottle I've brought myself. Of course.. just my opinion. I'm particularly amused by Helsinki, and how they charge more corkage for champagne, than they do for wine. I guess it's because of the added insurance costs for flying corks... Helsinki also 'requires' a per person food order of at least $25 just to give you the privilege of letting them open your bottle and serve it to you. Maybe if I say the name Helsinki enough, with unhappy comments, they will notice. On the other hand, I've never been there, so I can't complain not being a customer.
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The final irony here (for you restaurants that are listening) is that I have very rarely brought wine myself, and am more likely to do it only on special occasions. Otherwise, I order wine off the menu. However, I will feel less compelled to go to places whose policies I don't like, regardless of whether I've used their BYOW service or not. And Beckta does not get off the hook, just because they are Beckta.
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The final irony here (for you restaurants that are listening) is that I have very rarely brought wine myself, and am more likely to do it only on special occasions. Otherwise, I order wine off the menu. However, I will feel less compelled to go to places whose policies I don't like, regardless of whether I've used their BYOW service or not. And Beckta does not get off the hook, just because they are Beckta.
2009 Jul 28
Here here P-I-O. $25 is crazy.
Also, everyone, to avoid shame to ourselves remember that when tipping your server (if the cork fee is not crazy) that you should tip for the service. Tip as if you had bought the wine there. And subtract the cork fee from the tip if it is crazy (well, i am kind of joking about that last part)...
Also, everyone, to avoid shame to ourselves remember that when tipping your server (if the cork fee is not crazy) that you should tip for the service. Tip as if you had bought the wine there. And subtract the cork fee from the tip if it is crazy (well, i am kind of joking about that last part)...
2009 Jul 28
Play doesn't seem to be listed on the website, but I guess that is not really definitive. I saw an interesting comment on their FAQ regarding a concept called "bring a bottle buy a bottle". If an establishment offers this, it means that if you buy a bottle from the restaurant, they will waive the corkage fee on the bottle you bring. I think this could be a pretty good compromise for the places that have high corkage fees to prevent profit loss.
2009 Jul 28
Play does indeed offer BYOW, though they don't make it obvious on their website. Unlike Beckta, BYOW is available at Play seven days a week, and the corkage fee is lower ($15). Sounds good to me, and I fully intend to try it before long. BTW, the BYOW policy is mentioned here: www.playfoodandwine.com See under 'Dining Style'.
I'm seriously considering taking a screwcap bottle (I've got some good'uns in the cellar), to see if they can still charge a "corkage" fee with a straight face. :-)
I've only done BYOW once in Ottawa - that was at Beckta. I took a bottle of Robert Mondavi 1990 Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon. I don't remember what we ate (though it was certainly very good), but the wine was superb! The $20 corkage fee didn't bother me - if you could find that wine at a restaurant today, it would cost upwards of $200, so the fee was a pittance. No point taking a bottle of plonk to a place like Beckta, say I.
Most of the other Ottawa restos listed as BYOW don't interest me much, so I haven't tried them. I wish more of the better ones would offer it... kudos to Steve Beckta for taking that leap at Play.
I'm seriously considering taking a screwcap bottle (I've got some good'uns in the cellar), to see if they can still charge a "corkage" fee with a straight face. :-)
I've only done BYOW once in Ottawa - that was at Beckta. I took a bottle of Robert Mondavi 1990 Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon. I don't remember what we ate (though it was certainly very good), but the wine was superb! The $20 corkage fee didn't bother me - if you could find that wine at a restaurant today, it would cost upwards of $200, so the fee was a pittance. No point taking a bottle of plonk to a place like Beckta, say I.
Most of the other Ottawa restos listed as BYOW don't interest me much, so I haven't tried them. I wish more of the better ones would offer it... kudos to Steve Beckta for taking that leap at Play.
2009 Jul 30
To me the corkage fee should be in relation to the cost of the meal.
I personally would not have a problem with a $25 corkage fee at a place like Beckta or Le Bacarra because these meals are extravagant and I understand that the sale of alcohol helps make such places profitable.
The way I look at it, I could buy, with the price of a corkage fee included,a bottle that would run me in total $60-75 which is probably 30-50% less than what that bottle might cost me if I ordered it from the restaurant. When I go to a high end restaurant, my wine budget goes up and therefore, I would be willing to accept a higher corkage fee. However, restaurants not in the class of Beckta should not be charging that kind of money for a corkage fee IMO.
Regardless of the cost, I would expect any restaurant to treat the bottle and the serving of the bottle as if it was their own. There is no excuse for poor service IMO.
An amusing story. I recall when Splendido in Toronto announced their participation in BYOW, they asked that people only bring wine that respected the quality of the food or words to that effect. BTW, they now have a $30 corkage fee per 750 ml which I would be fine with if I ever go back.
Cheers
I personally would not have a problem with a $25 corkage fee at a place like Beckta or Le Bacarra because these meals are extravagant and I understand that the sale of alcohol helps make such places profitable.
The way I look at it, I could buy, with the price of a corkage fee included,a bottle that would run me in total $60-75 which is probably 30-50% less than what that bottle might cost me if I ordered it from the restaurant. When I go to a high end restaurant, my wine budget goes up and therefore, I would be willing to accept a higher corkage fee. However, restaurants not in the class of Beckta should not be charging that kind of money for a corkage fee IMO.
Regardless of the cost, I would expect any restaurant to treat the bottle and the serving of the bottle as if it was their own. There is no excuse for poor service IMO.
An amusing story. I recall when Splendido in Toronto announced their participation in BYOW, they asked that people only bring wine that respected the quality of the food or words to that effect. BTW, they now have a $30 corkage fee per 750 ml which I would be fine with if I ever go back.
Cheers
2009 Jul 30
Monty and Snoopy ... I'm sooooo there already !!
see ---> ottawafoodies.com <---
.... and if you read down the postings, maybe we can revive the "Slumming It Ghetto Night" idea.
see ---> ottawafoodies.com <---
.... and if you read down the postings, maybe we can revive the "Slumming It Ghetto Night" idea.
2009 Aug 3
Lady Who Brunches - Sorry, but I am laughing girl... a honking 3L jug of Californian Red, gosh I thought that practice ended in the 80s.
So here's another good laugh... I'm standing in line at the local LCBO on Saturday (small Wine Release) and I'm next to the "Cellared in Canada" section when what do I see... but a huge box of wine (ya know with the inner bladders) and an LCBO sign that says "Keeps 6 Weeks after Opening"..... Ick, like anyone would want to drink a glass of plonk that's been open for six weeks. Well it's enough to drive someone to drink... had to come home and pour myself a glass of Chianti to recover!
;-)
Medicine Jar - I agree, Corkage Fees should correspond to the Prices / Quality of the Food that a place serves... with an average max of $ 20 and lets say a low of $ 10 (or even FREE like many spots do in Quebec). Seems fare to me
Smellanie - Yup, I agree Corkage Fees are a "service fee" and as such I should be getting the service. On the otherhand, IF I get the service, then I should expect to pay a TIP on top of that Corkage Fee, if I don't get the service, then I guess I can see the "argument" that I shouldn't have too tip on that amount.... I'm guessing that a lot of folks are not tipping on top of the Corkage Fees, so consequently the Servers aren't passing on the service... figuring "hey you want DIY then DIY is what you get".
Yroc - Take Home The Rest (THTR)... yes unfortunately there are only a few places offering this service. Here on OF we've determined it isn't so popular because of a case of misinformation (a lot of Vendors think it is one in the same with the BYOW Program... it isn't... it was a move introduced by the Province at the same time however... which is why there is the confusion). Sadly no one is out there publicly praising those that do and spreading the word about the benefits to both the Customer and the Vendor of having a THTR Program. I strongly believe that if a Vendor supported THTR he'd more likely to sell the higher end wines more often... which equals increased profits... all this for small price of purchasig a corker and a bunch of corks from a wine supplier like Defalcos... total investment probably $ 25.
For more info on THTR see smartserve.org
So here's another good laugh... I'm standing in line at the local LCBO on Saturday (small Wine Release) and I'm next to the "Cellared in Canada" section when what do I see... but a huge box of wine (ya know with the inner bladders) and an LCBO sign that says "Keeps 6 Weeks after Opening"..... Ick, like anyone would want to drink a glass of plonk that's been open for six weeks. Well it's enough to drive someone to drink... had to come home and pour myself a glass of Chianti to recover!
;-)
Medicine Jar - I agree, Corkage Fees should correspond to the Prices / Quality of the Food that a place serves... with an average max of $ 20 and lets say a low of $ 10 (or even FREE like many spots do in Quebec). Seems fare to me
Smellanie - Yup, I agree Corkage Fees are a "service fee" and as such I should be getting the service. On the otherhand, IF I get the service, then I should expect to pay a TIP on top of that Corkage Fee, if I don't get the service, then I guess I can see the "argument" that I shouldn't have too tip on that amount.... I'm guessing that a lot of folks are not tipping on top of the Corkage Fees, so consequently the Servers aren't passing on the service... figuring "hey you want DIY then DIY is what you get".
Yroc - Take Home The Rest (THTR)... yes unfortunately there are only a few places offering this service. Here on OF we've determined it isn't so popular because of a case of misinformation (a lot of Vendors think it is one in the same with the BYOW Program... it isn't... it was a move introduced by the Province at the same time however... which is why there is the confusion). Sadly no one is out there publicly praising those that do and spreading the word about the benefits to both the Customer and the Vendor of having a THTR Program. I strongly believe that if a Vendor supported THTR he'd more likely to sell the higher end wines more often... which equals increased profits... all this for small price of purchasig a corker and a bunch of corks from a wine supplier like Defalcos... total investment probably $ 25.
For more info on THTR see smartserve.org
2009 Aug 3
Glad to see the question of THTR come up again. I've mentioned it to management types at several places I've dined this year, but to little avail. I think it's true that there is a widespread misconception that THTR is tied to the BYOW program, or that it requires expensive recorking equipment, but I also think it remains uncommon simply due to a lack of demand for the service. Why? I can think of a couple of reasons... obviously, one is lack of awareness of the existence of the THTR program on the part of the general public. Another is that many people think nothing of downing a whole bottle of wine during a meal (for a couple, or even individually), so THTR probably wouldn't interest them much. I've seen these conspicuous consumers at nearby tables - scary to think that they may be driving afterwards!
For anyone who thinks that THTR is a good idea, I implore you to request it at your favorite licensed eating establishments.
BTW, Steve Beckta confirms that Play does indeed offer THTR in addition to BYOW. Good on ya!
For anyone who thinks that THTR is a good idea, I implore you to request it at your favorite licensed eating establishments.
BTW, Steve Beckta confirms that Play does indeed offer THTR in addition to BYOW. Good on ya!
2009 Aug 3
BDM - I continue to promote THTR whenever I get the chance to chat with Management at a Restaurant... and it has been my experience that "everyone" believes it is part of the BYOB Program... am yet to meet one person who knows that it is independent. (Even had a Manager try to "argue" the point with me... "You are definitely wrong"). Of course, I continue to give out the correct info (although I haven't resorted to giving out website info or links... other than to say "Go on line, check it out"). Todate haven't seen any of the spots though implement the program... have one who said they are seriously going to look at it though.
It's a challenge, but I will continue to promote better wine service in Ottawa.
It's a challenge, but I will continue to promote better wine service in Ottawa.
2009 Aug 4
We did the BYOW thing at Play tonight - it was great! We took a terrific bottle of 2004 Wither Hills Pinot Noir (from New Zealand). Blows away any of the Pinots on their wine list, I'll wager. Yup, it's a screwcap bottle, and we had some good laughs with our server about whether they should charge a "cappage fee". Although I'm a big proponent of THTR, we didn't have anything left to take home this time! We did provide some tastes for some of the staff, though. Steve Beckta arrived just as we were leaving, so he missed out! Our food matches included pig cheeks (w/polenta, mushroom ragout, swiss chard), wilted spinach (w/raisins and pine nuts), smoked buffalo (w/lemon confit and dried cherries), grilled squash (w/sundried tomato, goat cheese, and arugula), and the grilled hanger steak (w/frites and aioli). We finished off with the pavlova dessert and coffee. It came to $87 before tip, which seems pretty darned reasonable for a meal of this quality.
A couple of questions: how do I add the BYOW tag to the Play vendor listing? Or does Fresh Foodie have to do it? And, does anyone know how to contact the keeper of the BYOW website (www.bringmywine.ca/)? The form on the website to submit info is broken - using it results in a "Can't open /usr/lib/sendmail -oi -t" error message. I don't see any other way of contacting him/her... I wonder if he/she is sitting there, wonder why nobody sends updates anymore...
A couple of questions: how do I add the BYOW tag to the Play vendor listing? Or does Fresh Foodie have to do it? And, does anyone know how to contact the keeper of the BYOW website (www.bringmywine.ca/)? The form on the website to submit info is broken - using it results in a "Can't open /usr/lib/sendmail -oi -t" error message. I don't see any other way of contacting him/her... I wonder if he/she is sitting there, wonder why nobody sends updates anymore...
2009 Aug 4
BTW, I don't think anyone mentioned in this thread or elsewhere that there was Globe and Mail article on this topic last week. Interesting read at least:
www.theglobeandmail.com
Cheers
www.theglobeandmail.com
Cheers
2009 Aug 5
BDM - Wow sounds like a nice evening at Play Food & Wine - Play Food and Wine
As for Tags, if you go to the Vendor (or Food Page) in Question at the top of the page you'll see this cue... +See something wrong or missing? Click here. when you do a box will open whereby you can send a message to Fresh Foodie to add a Tag... only he can update the Tags listings (for consistency).
BTW... as of 3:00 AM the BYOW Tag is there (guessing our esteemed WebMaster saw this post).
As for the Bring My Wine Website, I'll take a look and see if I can't find out what is happening / or alternate ways of contacting them.
As for Tags, if you go to the Vendor (or Food Page) in Question at the top of the page you'll see this cue... +See something wrong or missing? Click here. when you do a box will open whereby you can send a message to Fresh Foodie to add a Tag... only he can update the Tags listings (for consistency).
BTW... as of 3:00 AM the BYOW Tag is there (guessing our esteemed WebMaster saw this post).
As for the Bring My Wine Website, I'll take a look and see if I can't find out what is happening / or alternate ways of contacting them.
2009 Aug 5
Good article, medicinejar - thanks for the link! And thanks to F&T for the info about tags.
I'm already thinking about my our next visit to Play - next time, we'll take a good bottle of white vino, and explore a different part of the menu with its accompaniment.
They were pretty busy on a rainy Tuesday night, which is a good sign. I hope their success will encourage more local establishments to take the BYOW/THTR plunge.
I'm already thinking about my our next visit to Play - next time, we'll take a good bottle of white vino, and explore a different part of the menu with its accompaniment.
They were pretty busy on a rainy Tuesday night, which is a good sign. I hope their success will encourage more local establishments to take the BYOW/THTR plunge.
2009 Aug 20
I've revived this topic in order to provide a wee THTR update - I discovered this week that Juniper is another place in town that provides this service. Although I'm a fan of Juniper, I do think that their wine prices are too steep, especially if you order by the glass. For example, they charge $9 for a 5 oz glass of Sibling Rivalry (red or white). A 750 mL bottle can easily provide five 5 oz pours, which means they can take in $45 for a wine that sells for $13.95 at the LCBO, and I presume that they pay significantly less than that, so this is a markup of well over 200%. The markup is a bit less for the more expensive bottles, but still pretty high. The markup is also lower on bottles, making it a more attractive proposition to order by the bottle rather than by the glass, secure in the knowledge that you can take the remainder home if you choose not to finish it at the restaurant.
2009 Aug 29
in regards to the thtr subject i am not 100% positive but i do believe that each establishment has to have this listed as a separate subject on the liquor license...so if they failed to do so on there application,,,they would be breaking liquor laws by letting the customer take home unfinished wine...i was talking to the owner of a restaurant in the market with a substantial wine list and i thought that is what he had told me.....
2009 Aug 29
I have also recently been at Juniper and found their THTR option to be a welcome breath of fresh air..er sip of wine. I was there with my wife, and mother-in-law, both of whom do not normally drink, and may not order a glass, but were quite happy to have one or two ounces from the bottle that I ordered. It was a great way to include everyone in the festivities. I did not find the prices too steep. Like it or not, most places have a markup of between 200%, and 400%, which seems pretty standard. The difficulty then is how the establishment balances their wine list, so there are different offerings at different price points, without including any plonk on the list. I ordered a medium thrifty, but quite tasty Malbec off the menu and was quite happy with it. I was surprised with how well it went with my off menu cornish hen/duck breast combo entree...(long but good story). In fact, that reminds me there is some left.. I think I'm going to go pour myself a glass.
2009 Aug 29
RE - Take Home The Rest (THTR)
Gosh, how I wish the "confusion" on this dang program would go away... it would only serve to "serve" all Ontario Food & Wine Patrons better...
It is a common misconception by Restaurant Owners that the THTR Program is part of the BYOW Program... the confusion comes from the fact that Legislation for both was approved at the same time... BUT they are not combined... one does not have to offer one to offer the other. One can offer either, both or none.
Here then is a Quote from the FAQ Section on the "Smart Serve Site"...
Q: "What if I don't want to take part in the BYOW, can I still offer to reseal wine purchased under my licence?
A: "Yes, you can offer to reseal wine purchased from you, providing you are able to properly reseal the bottle. You do not need to apply to the AGCO for this service."
More info can be found about the THTR Program on the Smart Serve Website at smartserve.org/faq_byow.asp
Please... OF Wine Lovers... go forth and spread the good word!
Gosh, how I wish the "confusion" on this dang program would go away... it would only serve to "serve" all Ontario Food & Wine Patrons better...
It is a common misconception by Restaurant Owners that the THTR Program is part of the BYOW Program... the confusion comes from the fact that Legislation for both was approved at the same time... BUT they are not combined... one does not have to offer one to offer the other. One can offer either, both or none.
Here then is a Quote from the FAQ Section on the "Smart Serve Site"...
Q: "What if I don't want to take part in the BYOW, can I still offer to reseal wine purchased under my licence?
A: "Yes, you can offer to reseal wine purchased from you, providing you are able to properly reseal the bottle. You do not need to apply to the AGCO for this service."
More info can be found about the THTR Program on the Smart Serve Website at smartserve.org/faq_byow.asp
Please... OF Wine Lovers... go forth and spread the good word!
2009 Aug 29
Pete - Maybe I shouldn't single out Juniper for high wine prices, since, as you say, markups of 200% or more are becoming the norm. Seems to me there is an insidious creep here though, as it wasn't so long ago that a 100% markup was pretty much standard.
To me, it all comes down to value added. I have no problem with paying, say $20 for a dish that contains a couple of bucks worth of ingredients, as I'm paying for the chef's experience and expertise in preparing it. It irks me, though, to pay a hefty amount for a commodity (bottle of wine) that I could buy across the street for a small fraction of that amount, and prepare (open and pour) with ease myself. The value added in having someone else do that simple function doesn't justify the big markup. Why not have a reasonable fixed serving fee rather than a percentage?
Oh well, maybe I'm just a cheapskate. Gotta get back to Play for more BYOW before Steve Beckta changes his mind! :-)
In any case, regardless of their wine pricing policies, every licenced establishment should offer THTR.
To me, it all comes down to value added. I have no problem with paying, say $20 for a dish that contains a couple of bucks worth of ingredients, as I'm paying for the chef's experience and expertise in preparing it. It irks me, though, to pay a hefty amount for a commodity (bottle of wine) that I could buy across the street for a small fraction of that amount, and prepare (open and pour) with ease myself. The value added in having someone else do that simple function doesn't justify the big markup. Why not have a reasonable fixed serving fee rather than a percentage?
Oh well, maybe I'm just a cheapskate. Gotta get back to Play for more BYOW before Steve Beckta changes his mind! :-)
In any case, regardless of their wine pricing policies, every licenced establishment should offer THTR.
2010 Dec 16
Was in Al's steakhouse this eve. Asked the server if they allowed THTR (I ask everywhere). She said no, but said she would check with management (they all say that). Shortly thereafter, she returned and confirmed that is was not allowed as they did not have a BYOW license. I told her that was fine, but that they were misinformed about the applicable rules.
I asked to speak with her manager and we had a conversation, he told me he would contact the AGCO (after I told him about THTR and showed it to him on the internet using my smartphone). He promised he would look into it (which I have been told many times).
By the time we had finished our meal, he returned and told me I was correct (he had took the time to contact AGCO while we ate) and more importantly that they would allow THTR when requested it in the future.
Took me 2 years, but I finally found an owner willing to inquire instead of simply giving me lip service. The owner I spoke with was Sam Saikali, and he will get my return business.
One more place to add to the list of places who offer THTR.
I asked to speak with her manager and we had a conversation, he told me he would contact the AGCO (after I told him about THTR and showed it to him on the internet using my smartphone). He promised he would look into it (which I have been told many times).
By the time we had finished our meal, he returned and told me I was correct (he had took the time to contact AGCO while we ate) and more importantly that they would allow THTR when requested it in the future.
Took me 2 years, but I finally found an owner willing to inquire instead of simply giving me lip service. The owner I spoke with was Sam Saikali, and he will get my return business.
One more place to add to the list of places who offer THTR.
2010 Dec 16
I'm from Montreal and cannot believe that one has to pay a corkage fee and won't let you take it with you when you leave.
I went to Montreal in October and did not pay a fee, and we took it with us when we left (with no cork either - we just put a napkin in it).
I don't know why Ottawa has these rules, but I find it sad. Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that some vendors here do the BYOW, but I wonder how much more business some places would get if there was no corkage fee?
I went to Montreal in October and did not pay a fee, and we took it with us when we left (with no cork either - we just put a napkin in it).
I don't know why Ottawa has these rules, but I find it sad. Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that some vendors here do the BYOW, but I wonder how much more business some places would get if there was no corkage fee?
2011 Jan 25
Although Poutine has already mentioned it in a review, I thought I'd bring up again a great BYOW deal:
$0 Corkage at Juniper - Reservations 9pm or later, any day of the week can bring with them a maximum of (1) 750mL bottle of wine and not pay any corkage fee.
I'll pay for food if Momomoto brings a bottle of Clos Jordanne ;-)
$0 Corkage at Juniper - Reservations 9pm or later, any day of the week can bring with them a maximum of (1) 750mL bottle of wine and not pay any corkage fee.
I'll pay for food if Momomoto brings a bottle of Clos Jordanne ;-)
Poutine
www.bringmywine.ca/