Farmers' Markets - Price Gouging? [Food/Vendor]
2012 Sep 16
Tree Pug, I think that is an excellent question and one that bothered me in my short tenure with Slow Food Ottawa. Should quality food be out of reach of the average person? How do small farmers eke out a living when they pour their souls into tending an organic or non-organic but sustainable product? I've heard of farmers trying to get by on $12,000 a year in income. How is that sustainable? Is it elitist to spend $2 on a heritage tomato at the expense of other foods in a family budget, or is the taste of that tomato a more important indicator of value?
More Canadians buy food that's prepared elsewhere, so the budget that used to go to buying ingredients is going to whatever foodstuffs end up in commercial kitchens.
Compared to our parents, more of us also have our family budgets going to electronic devices. So the dollars spent on ingredients keeps shrinking.
It's a complex issue. I for one am willing to pay for quality over quantity. Not everyone can make that choice.
More Canadians buy food that's prepared elsewhere, so the budget that used to go to buying ingredients is going to whatever foodstuffs end up in commercial kitchens.
Compared to our parents, more of us also have our family budgets going to electronic devices. So the dollars spent on ingredients keeps shrinking.
It's a complex issue. I for one am willing to pay for quality over quantity. Not everyone can make that choice.
2012 Sep 17
I moved this discussion from the vendor page (Ottawa Farmer's Market) into the forums. The controversial topic name is mine. ;-)
When I shop for groceries, pricing is important to me. Consequently, I frequently leave farmers' markets empty-handed or at least feeling ripped off. It's especially disappointing when I taste the product and don't find it to be better than the "Foodland Ontario" stuff available for half the price in our grocery stores.
Another peeve: when vendors who normally sell through 3rd party shops, set up a market booth and charge *higher* prices after cutting out the middle man. Yes, I understand they now need to pay someone to staff the booth, but it just seems wrong. I've seen Beking's do this... their eggs are $4.50 at the markets and $4 in stores. On the other hand, Pascale's Ice Cream is $11.50 in stores and $11 when bought directly from Pascale at the market (smiles and samples included).
I think Farmers' Markets in Ottawa are viewed as elitist institutions, appealing only to the rich and/or the food-obsessed. Personally, I love the opportunity to meet with and talk to the producers and often I pay the premium willingly for that experience alone.
I'd be curious to know if the vendors see these markets as a cash grab where the rich and clueless hand over gobs of money, or if they're barely scraping a profit and are forced to charge high prices to cover the cost of setting up and staffing a tent with first-world employees. I guess, like so many things in life, it's somewhere between the two extremes: below a certain price point, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort. It's much easier (i.e. cheaper) to put a pile of produce into the back of a truck and let someone else sell it.
All I know is that we're a far cry from the markets I've seen in Europe, where produce is so affordable compared to everything else.
When I shop for groceries, pricing is important to me. Consequently, I frequently leave farmers' markets empty-handed or at least feeling ripped off. It's especially disappointing when I taste the product and don't find it to be better than the "Foodland Ontario" stuff available for half the price in our grocery stores.
Another peeve: when vendors who normally sell through 3rd party shops, set up a market booth and charge *higher* prices after cutting out the middle man. Yes, I understand they now need to pay someone to staff the booth, but it just seems wrong. I've seen Beking's do this... their eggs are $4.50 at the markets and $4 in stores. On the other hand, Pascale's Ice Cream is $11.50 in stores and $11 when bought directly from Pascale at the market (smiles and samples included).
I think Farmers' Markets in Ottawa are viewed as elitist institutions, appealing only to the rich and/or the food-obsessed. Personally, I love the opportunity to meet with and talk to the producers and often I pay the premium willingly for that experience alone.
I'd be curious to know if the vendors see these markets as a cash grab where the rich and clueless hand over gobs of money, or if they're barely scraping a profit and are forced to charge high prices to cover the cost of setting up and staffing a tent with first-world employees. I guess, like so many things in life, it's somewhere between the two extremes: below a certain price point, it wouldn't be worth the time and effort. It's much easier (i.e. cheaper) to put a pile of produce into the back of a truck and let someone else sell it.
All I know is that we're a far cry from the markets I've seen in Europe, where produce is so affordable compared to everything else.
2012 Sep 17
FF I don't disagree with you. I think you bring up several different issues though:
1) resellers such as in the Parkdale Market is not worth my time and as you say gouging the elite
2) foodland ont is factory farming but produced within the province, I dont mind buying this at the groc store
3) locally grown, as you say is the best since you get to know the person who is raising your food. these are typically not factory farms and prices may be higher but for the most part you can taste the difference.
What irks me about these so called farmers markets is the cost to the producer in order to set up a booth in a parking lot. I considered setting up in Kanata but they wanted too much $$ for a hobby farmer like myself. Also consider the small producer is not allowed to sell chickens, turkeys or eggs at these venues due to government regulations. Some potential sites I have spoken with were adamant that eggs or poultry not be sold there.
I am sure OG will have some good comments on this!
K,
1) resellers such as in the Parkdale Market is not worth my time and as you say gouging the elite
2) foodland ont is factory farming but produced within the province, I dont mind buying this at the groc store
3) locally grown, as you say is the best since you get to know the person who is raising your food. these are typically not factory farms and prices may be higher but for the most part you can taste the difference.
What irks me about these so called farmers markets is the cost to the producer in order to set up a booth in a parking lot. I considered setting up in Kanata but they wanted too much $$ for a hobby farmer like myself. Also consider the small producer is not allowed to sell chickens, turkeys or eggs at these venues due to government regulations. Some potential sites I have spoken with were adamant that eggs or poultry not be sold there.
I am sure OG will have some good comments on this!
K,
2012 Sep 17
We just have to look to our Quebec brethern in Montreal. JT Market has amazing produce for a very reasonable cost, and there are at least 3 huge markets in Montreal with many smaller markets sprikled around. Parkdale in comparison is not too bad for pricing. My thinking all along is that most of the vendors @ carp or lansdown etc are just too small to make much profit at a reasonable price. That being said, Acorn Creek is one of the bigger producers around here, and their prices are also somewhat high. I love buying at the market, but it ends up in the "entertainment" category on my budget rather than the grocery.
2012 Sep 17
I have been to the Potsdam Farmer's market several times over the summer. It is very small, and the vendors sometimes change, but the pricing seems excellent to me. I bought an open face Elderberry pie from an Amish baker for $5 last Saturday, and most of what is sold there is organic and or local. They do bring peaches all the way from Pennsylvania. They also sell beef, poultry, cheeses and new york state wines. I am not sure how their pricing is kept low. Many of the vendors do farmer's markets in different upstate towns every day, some of them 5 days a week.
2012 Sep 17
When the Ottawa Farmer's Market first opened, we went every week, but seldom bought anything. This year, we have not been once. The reason is simple - price. I find them very, very expensive. $1 for a habanero? At the Jean Talon market in Montreal you can get a basket of them for a couple of bucks. Ever notice how everything at the OFM has exactly the same price point? You really need go only to one vegetable stand to see what they are charging and you can be sure that the bunch of carrots or whatever at the next stand will be the exact same price. And yes, their meats are way overpriced. There is no middleman so I cannot fathom why they charge so much. There was one farmer who used to sell there. He now sells at another local, but not in Ottawa market. He told us he stopped selling there because he could not justify the prices he was told to charge. Another vendor there also sells their goods at yet another market, also not in Ottawa. When I asked why their price was $5 per item rather than the $4 they charged at the other market she stated that " they were told to". Note that is a 25% premium.
And speaking of Acorn Creek, I find it odd that their prices are the same as, say Bryson Farms, which is organic. Bryson Farms is labour intensive which justifies, at least to a certain extent, their prices.
There have been articles written about this. The OFM claim they do not set prices. However, when I go to the Main Street Market there are price variations which I appreciate as it gives at least the appearance of competition. The same holds true for the other markets I visit from time to time, those in Chelsea and Kemptville. Try any of the other three and, in my opinion, you will be a much happier camper.
BTW, I don't have a problem with Foodland, Ontario products either. Except, maybe, tomatoes. I love heirloom varieties and will spend the extra money to buy those as the season is so short. But, I do not buy them at the OFM.
As long as people have more money than brains, they will continue to shell out the cash on overpriced product and so the OFM will continue to thrive.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel better.
Sorry about the rant, but I feel better.
And speaking of Acorn Creek, I find it odd that their prices are the same as, say Bryson Farms, which is organic. Bryson Farms is labour intensive which justifies, at least to a certain extent, their prices.
There have been articles written about this. The OFM claim they do not set prices. However, when I go to the Main Street Market there are price variations which I appreciate as it gives at least the appearance of competition. The same holds true for the other markets I visit from time to time, those in Chelsea and Kemptville. Try any of the other three and, in my opinion, you will be a much happier camper.
BTW, I don't have a problem with Foodland, Ontario products either. Except, maybe, tomatoes. I love heirloom varieties and will spend the extra money to buy those as the season is so short. But, I do not buy them at the OFM.
As long as people have more money than brains, they will continue to shell out the cash on overpriced product and so the OFM will continue to thrive.
Sorry for the rant, but I feel better.
Sorry about the rant, but I feel better.
2012 Sep 17
Price fixing, price gouging, what's next? We discussed this one a couple of years ago, I think: ottawafoodies.com
Forum - Lansdowne Farmers Market
The choice is yours - choose to spend at the farmers market or not... we only buy things like special cheese from small producers and sometimes tomatoes or corn... otherwise, the prices are largely unreasonable for us.
And while they wouldn't call it outright price fixing... I'll leave it up to you to decide!
Forum - Lansdowne Farmers Market
The choice is yours - choose to spend at the farmers market or not... we only buy things like special cheese from small producers and sometimes tomatoes or corn... otherwise, the prices are largely unreasonable for us.
And while they wouldn't call it outright price fixing... I'll leave it up to you to decide!
2012 Sep 17
Blubarry!
Oh my goodness those damn New Yorkers are selling wine and poultry at a farmers market?! I can only imagine the plethora of teens lined up to buy the wine like the messaging says will happen from our strict government run stores ;)
Plus the detrimental effect on the large factory poultry farms.
My sarcasm is not directed at you....just our current and past Ont Govt.
K
Oh my goodness those damn New Yorkers are selling wine and poultry at a farmers market?! I can only imagine the plethora of teens lined up to buy the wine like the messaging says will happen from our strict government run stores ;)
Plus the detrimental effect on the large factory poultry farms.
My sarcasm is not directed at you....just our current and past Ont Govt.
K
2012 Sep 17
As many may know, I am 3 years in as a CSA member with Roots and Shoots Farm. (Since they began.) For a young farm, they are doing very well with growing their operation and improving their product. We go out to the farm a couple of times each year and are reminded that it is back breaking work and 24/7 dedication. It makes parenting look like a walk in the park. I lived on a farm for almost 20 years. I do not have the grit it takes to run a farm, but Robin Turner and Jesse do. I know I am paying more for their organic food than what is being shipped to the grocery store chains from China. But I haven't been feeling gouged by their prices. They do not appear to be any more than what is being charged by non-organic local farmers. Which seems pretty decent of them because it is more work.
Although I am loyal to Roots and Shoots by continuing to be a CSA member, I too feel in a quandary about what is the real story with our food system. And wishing it was not so expensive to eat. Ron Eade has mentioned often that the cost of food in Canada is much cheaper than in other countries. I don't recall which ones he was referencing. If true, I am thankful for that.
To settle myself, I choose not to spend any money on forms of gambling or cigarettes. I am also a pretty lame booze drinker. Some in this world invest quite a bit of their disposable income in one or all three. I just move that coin over to food. Good food. And hopefully well grown, healthy food. Am I being taken advantage of? Not sure I will ever know. But for now, I feel okay with the priority I have put on spending my dough.
My share works out to $33.75 a pickup. You can check out my blog and select the label 'CSA basket 2012' if you want to see what I am receiving in my shares.
ottawafood.blogspot.ca/
I do think my past farm experience plays a big part in why I tend to buy local. I am just so utterly thankful that they have chosen this way of life and can provide for me. (I should note that my ability to garden on my property is very limited, though I am the proud mother of 4 thriving tomato plants.) The health aspect is another. (The stories I hear about how China is so blatantly underhanded with food safety is bothersome.)
I am enjoying reading everyone's comments and experiences. It is certainly a hot topic nowadays.
Although I am loyal to Roots and Shoots by continuing to be a CSA member, I too feel in a quandary about what is the real story with our food system. And wishing it was not so expensive to eat. Ron Eade has mentioned often that the cost of food in Canada is much cheaper than in other countries. I don't recall which ones he was referencing. If true, I am thankful for that.
To settle myself, I choose not to spend any money on forms of gambling or cigarettes. I am also a pretty lame booze drinker. Some in this world invest quite a bit of their disposable income in one or all three. I just move that coin over to food. Good food. And hopefully well grown, healthy food. Am I being taken advantage of? Not sure I will ever know. But for now, I feel okay with the priority I have put on spending my dough.
My share works out to $33.75 a pickup. You can check out my blog and select the label 'CSA basket 2012' if you want to see what I am receiving in my shares.
ottawafood.blogspot.ca/
I do think my past farm experience plays a big part in why I tend to buy local. I am just so utterly thankful that they have chosen this way of life and can provide for me. (I should note that my ability to garden on my property is very limited, though I am the proud mother of 4 thriving tomato plants.) The health aspect is another. (The stories I hear about how China is so blatantly underhanded with food safety is bothersome.)
I am enjoying reading everyone's comments and experiences. It is certainly a hot topic nowadays.
2012 Sep 19
If a farmer was 'told' to charge something, isn't that considered obvious price fixing?? That's awful! And I'm no lawyer, but isn't that illegal?
Seems to me there are lots of reasons that prices are what they are, but price fixing should NEVER be a reason. Shameful. At our market (Ottawa Organic Farmers Market), we see a wide range of prices, for a wide variety of reasons:
-Some folks have owned their farm longer than I've been alive. No mortgage or large amounts of funds going towards 'building' the farm.
-Different breeds of animals. Some grow faster than others.
-Some are growing their own feedstuffs, and are not subject to market price fluctuations
-Type of feed used. We don't use soy in our feed, so the critters grow at a much slower (some say normal) rate. Animals that get to market faster tend to cost less.
Fresh Foodie, I would say I've not seen these rich and clueless folks at my market table. I'm blessed with very savvy patrons. These rich and clueless must exist though, because there are unscrupulous farmers out there that charge far more than they should for crap. As I've said before, let your spending dollar be your vote, and the cream will rise to the top, and the chaff will be blown aside.
I would also wager that if most people had to try and grow their own veggies for a year, the price of veggies would be far higher than it is now. It is a hard thing trying to eke a living out of the soil when the weather loves to throw you curveballs! However, I just read this in an article: “You know the farmer’s favourite saying in a year like this? There’s always next year.” I love that.
blubarry, I often wonder how Mennonites, Hutterites, and Amish keep prices so low. Especially the ones who have given up the horses and buggies for big shiny black Ford trucks! I don't know for certain, but someone once told me that they don't pay the same for stuff the way the rest of us do. And it certainly helps that they all work together. But I LOVE the idea of a market with wine tasting!
Seems to me there are lots of reasons that prices are what they are, but price fixing should NEVER be a reason. Shameful. At our market (Ottawa Organic Farmers Market), we see a wide range of prices, for a wide variety of reasons:
-Some folks have owned their farm longer than I've been alive. No mortgage or large amounts of funds going towards 'building' the farm.
-Different breeds of animals. Some grow faster than others.
-Some are growing their own feedstuffs, and are not subject to market price fluctuations
-Type of feed used. We don't use soy in our feed, so the critters grow at a much slower (some say normal) rate. Animals that get to market faster tend to cost less.
Fresh Foodie, I would say I've not seen these rich and clueless folks at my market table. I'm blessed with very savvy patrons. These rich and clueless must exist though, because there are unscrupulous farmers out there that charge far more than they should for crap. As I've said before, let your spending dollar be your vote, and the cream will rise to the top, and the chaff will be blown aside.
I would also wager that if most people had to try and grow their own veggies for a year, the price of veggies would be far higher than it is now. It is a hard thing trying to eke a living out of the soil when the weather loves to throw you curveballs! However, I just read this in an article: “You know the farmer’s favourite saying in a year like this? There’s always next year.” I love that.
blubarry, I often wonder how Mennonites, Hutterites, and Amish keep prices so low. Especially the ones who have given up the horses and buggies for big shiny black Ford trucks! I don't know for certain, but someone once told me that they don't pay the same for stuff the way the rest of us do. And it certainly helps that they all work together. But I LOVE the idea of a market with wine tasting!
2012 Sep 19
I'm not a lawyer either, but here is how the "price fixing" laws are applied, if I understand correctly:
If the farmers meet before opening the market and all decide on a price for each product together, then it's clearly price fixing. If you can prove that meeting happened, they'll most probably get prosecuted.
Similar result if they exchange phone calls or e-mails about prices.
But if they just happen to put up sign on their booths with their prices, and the guys who set up later just happen to have the same prices as the first guy who posted his prices, then you can't prove anything illegal. The law doesn't force them to have different prices.
I think it's the way most gas stations can have the same price without getting in truble with the law : as soon as the numbers go up on the big sign in front of one station, the other ones follow... but if they didn't discuss it, then it's not illegal.
Still wrong, IMO, but not illegal...
If the farmers meet before opening the market and all decide on a price for each product together, then it's clearly price fixing. If you can prove that meeting happened, they'll most probably get prosecuted.
Similar result if they exchange phone calls or e-mails about prices.
But if they just happen to put up sign on their booths with their prices, and the guys who set up later just happen to have the same prices as the first guy who posted his prices, then you can't prove anything illegal. The law doesn't force them to have different prices.
I think it's the way most gas stations can have the same price without getting in truble with the law : as soon as the numbers go up on the big sign in front of one station, the other ones follow... but if they didn't discuss it, then it's not illegal.
Still wrong, IMO, but not illegal...
2012 Sep 20
Isabelle, if I recall correctly, that's what was happening at the Lansdowne Market. Ron Eade talked about everything on his blog and then they were told to stop the practice. I think the Competition Bureau was even involved.
I love Jean Talon market. I used to go there regularly when I lived in the Montreal area. The prices were incredible and the produce was great. Plus all the small restaurants and shops around the market itself made the visit worthwhile. I picked up lots of great Quebecois products.
I love Jean Talon market. I used to go there regularly when I lived in the Montreal area. The prices were incredible and the produce was great. Plus all the small restaurants and shops around the market itself made the visit worthwhile. I picked up lots of great Quebecois products.
2012 Sep 25
I love both Jean Talon and Atwater markets. Most offer me the same things and which one I visit depends on which part of town I am in. The main difference between the two is that there is many more prepared meats (ie: sold marinated, kebabs,etc) at Atwater and much higher end specialized meat vendors at Jean Talon. Makes me want to go now...
2013 Aug 26
"When I shop for groceries, pricing is important to me. Consequently, I frequently leave farmers' markets empty-handed or at least feeling ripped off. It's especially disappointing when I taste the product and don't find it to be better than the "Foodland Ontario" stuff available for half the price in our grocery stores."
Like Fresh Foodie said. I guess I'm not the quickest draw at the corral, but after buying dismal produce at the Parkdale Market last week (from a well known stand signed as "Farmer", not a reseller), I have to say that I too am done with farmers' markets. $4 for a half dozen cobs of tasteless, gummy corn versus the $5 I paid at Farm Boy for a dozen of the best corn I've tasted this year.
My 2013 experiences at the Main St Market and Brewer's Park Market have been largely the same so I'm done with these shams and will simply continue to support local agriculture with the farmgate shopping I've been doing for a few years now.
Like Fresh Foodie said. I guess I'm not the quickest draw at the corral, but after buying dismal produce at the Parkdale Market last week (from a well known stand signed as "Farmer", not a reseller), I have to say that I too am done with farmers' markets. $4 for a half dozen cobs of tasteless, gummy corn versus the $5 I paid at Farm Boy for a dozen of the best corn I've tasted this year.
My 2013 experiences at the Main St Market and Brewer's Park Market have been largely the same so I'm done with these shams and will simply continue to support local agriculture with the farmgate shopping I've been doing for a few years now.
2013 Aug 26
After being ripped off at Parkdale with rotting produce hidden on the bottom of the basket and gouged to the bone at Brewer park I have not been to a farmers market in this city for two years. Farmboy has much better produce at cheaper prices. Blubarry has it right with Abby Hill Farms corn.
2013 Aug 27
I had a similar experience with one vendor at Parkdale market, compounded by a subsequent visit to another vendor when i proceeded to check each entire box and switch the rotted ones out and was told i wasn't allowed to do that. Left the stall without a purchase and I've rarely been back to Parkdale since.
That's never happened to me at Lansdowne/Brewer. the handful of times i've found an off fruit or veg in a basket the vendor switches it out for a good one and usually throws in a few more.
I'll cheerfully pay more for better quality at a farmers' mkt, but i'm buying specifics, not doing my whole week's order.
That's never happened to me at Lansdowne/Brewer. the handful of times i've found an off fruit or veg in a basket the vendor switches it out for a good one and usually throws in a few more.
I'll cheerfully pay more for better quality at a farmers' mkt, but i'm buying specifics, not doing my whole week's order.
2013 Aug 27
I've not had this kind of issue at the Organic Farmer's Market behind the Canadian Tire at Bank/Heron. You are encouraged to look over everything you buy and are talking directly to the people intimately involved with the product.
Are the prices higher than at a grocery store? Maybe a bit, but this is good quality and local organic. Also, probably very recently out of the ground or freshly made.
Are the prices higher than at a grocery store? Maybe a bit, but this is good quality and local organic. Also, probably very recently out of the ground or freshly made.
2013 Aug 27
I went to the organic market behind Canadian Tire a few times a few years ago but I stopped going as I was getting tired of having to ask what the price was of every little thing I looked at. Why do they not post their prices? Is it to make price comparison difficult? If not, I can't think of a single other reason why they would not post the prices. At least at Brewer's Park the prices are posted so you know by how much you are overpaying for everything. I think I mentioned this on another thread, but when I go to the Farmer's Market in my little hometown in Southern Ontario, I am always taken aback by the difference in prices. Your $10 will buy you three times the produce in my hometown compared to the Ottawa Markets. There is one stand at Brewer's Park who sells berries and jams, etc. at another market outside Ottawa. When I asked why the jam was $1 more she said, and I quote, " We were told what to charge". Make of that what you will, but I no longer patronize the Ottawa Markets. Other local ones, such as North Gower and Chelsea to name just two, you bet I support them.
2013 Aug 27
We still like going to the markets but we're much more selective in what we buy these days. I still have bad memories of the $6 cup of peas that I bought at the Brewer Park market once. We still like getting the produce from Warner's, or strawberries from Rochon, in season, or Pascale's ice cream directly from Pascale. We tend to deal directly with the producers if we can; we buy a half of a pig from a local producer, buy vegetables directly at Acorn Creek etc.
I don't begrudge a living wage to farmers, but sometimes it seems like some market stands are just hobby farmers and they have to charge an arm and a leg to make it worth their while.
It's too bad you can't get eggs from the markets. We bought some from a road side stand in Maine a week ago that were almost just out of the chicken and it's like night and day from what you can buy in a grocery store, even places like Bekings. I know there are farms where you can buy them from directly, but it would be more convenient to get from at a market.
I don't begrudge a living wage to farmers, but sometimes it seems like some market stands are just hobby farmers and they have to charge an arm and a leg to make it worth their while.
It's too bad you can't get eggs from the markets. We bought some from a road side stand in Maine a week ago that were almost just out of the chicken and it's like night and day from what you can buy in a grocery store, even places like Bekings. I know there are farms where you can buy them from directly, but it would be more convenient to get from at a market.
2013 Aug 28
I haven't been to the market at St. Paul's University on Main Street in a while, but they had Bekings eggs there. It's a much smaller market and we used to attend as vendors, selling craft works. I really loved that market and I'd (again) be surprised if you found the same attitude there.
I will admit to having gone to the Brewer Park one a couple of times and having gone away empty handed every time.
I will admit to having gone to the Brewer Park one a couple of times and having gone away empty handed every time.
2013 Aug 29
I was on the hunt for garlic at parkdale last week but could not do it when they charge 2.50 - 3.50 for small heads of garlic at producers.
I was at ferry building in sf Tues and bought some german red? at 6$ per lb or around 1 a head. only issue i had was that they had 3 spieces in the same box and the girl could not tell
I was at ferry building in sf Tues and bought some german red? at 6$ per lb or around 1 a head. only issue i had was that they had 3 spieces in the same box and the girl could not tell
2013 Oct 14
Was out in Carp on Saturday for breakfast with the family then took a walk through the farmers market. It was a quick walk. I had to chuckle at people paying $4 for eight medium sized carrots. Now if that is not price gouging I do not know what is. I opted for three pounds of Ontario carrots for 79 cents at a grocery store instead.
2013 Oct 14
There are a lot of things to consider, though. Even organic farms can be a much larger scale, and offer better pricing as a result.
Plus, there is the added benefit (for many who are willing to pay Farmers Market prices) of being able to talk to your food producer. This matters far more to me than great pricing, or even organic status (to be honest).
Plus, there is the added benefit (for many who are willing to pay Farmers Market prices) of being able to talk to your food producer. This matters far more to me than great pricing, or even organic status (to be honest).
2013 Oct 14
That price does seem excessive, but I know that carrots I buy (at a premium) from places like Acorn Creek and Bryson Farms taste different to me from the typical grocery store carrot. To me, they taste like carrots should taste and I'm more inclined to eat those as a snack compared to your standard grocery store carrot which often doesn't have much taste at all. Similar to the way that all tomatoes don't taste the same.
2013 Oct 14
This reminds me of Penn and Teller taking to the streets regarding organic foods...have you seen this? Sure, not scientific at all, but still pretty funny, and really did make me think of it. They cut a banana in half and told taste testers that one part was organic and the other was not...the organic side "had more flavour", "cleaner", "just better"....
Not trying to start "the debate"...Yes, organic is better, on a whole....but is it worth the cost?...only you can decide. Certain items, I do opt for organic, others not. If prices were the same, I'd likely go for organic every time, even if I couldn't taste a difference, or more importantly, avoid the pesticide issue (organic doesn't mean no pesticides IMO...but more natural). I do support local farmers as often as possible though.
Not trying to start "the debate"...Yes, organic is better, on a whole....but is it worth the cost?...only you can decide. Certain items, I do opt for organic, others not. If prices were the same, I'd likely go for organic every time, even if I couldn't taste a difference, or more importantly, avoid the pesticide issue (organic doesn't mean no pesticides IMO...but more natural). I do support local farmers as often as possible though.
2013 Oct 16
4 dollars for 8 carrots seems like a lot, but I wasn't there to see or taste the carrots, that were probably plucked from the earth less than 24 hours before they gently landed on the table at the market. Many are happy to pay more for that kind of freshness, and to know who grew them.
And yeah, big farms can grow stuff for less. I also wonder what the markup is on certain foods at the grocery store. Things many consider staple items (milk, eggs, bananas, etc) are often not marked up past the price of production, it gets people in the door to the store. The mark up is often on the processed stuff.
I also think it's great that when your budget can't afford $4 carrots, there are Ontario ones available at such a low price.
I do wonder though, is the price question being asked backwards? We ask why does it cost so much. When I see meats priced at 1.99/lb or lower, or even carrots for .79/lb, I wonder what corners did they have to cut to produce it for so little? How on earth can they produce it for so little? Who didn't get paid? Who was taken advantage of? The animals? The workers? The soil?
Even if you were growing your own carrots, after the price of the seed and if you factor in your time, soil amendments, water, etc., etc., can you grow them for .79/lb? To make 100 bucks (gross, not net) you'd need to grow over 125lbs. That's a lot of work for less than a buck a pound.
And yeah, big farms can grow stuff for less. I also wonder what the markup is on certain foods at the grocery store. Things many consider staple items (milk, eggs, bananas, etc) are often not marked up past the price of production, it gets people in the door to the store. The mark up is often on the processed stuff.
I also think it's great that when your budget can't afford $4 carrots, there are Ontario ones available at such a low price.
I do wonder though, is the price question being asked backwards? We ask why does it cost so much. When I see meats priced at 1.99/lb or lower, or even carrots for .79/lb, I wonder what corners did they have to cut to produce it for so little? How on earth can they produce it for so little? Who didn't get paid? Who was taken advantage of? The animals? The workers? The soil?
Even if you were growing your own carrots, after the price of the seed and if you factor in your time, soil amendments, water, etc., etc., can you grow them for .79/lb? To make 100 bucks (gross, not net) you'd need to grow over 125lbs. That's a lot of work for less than a buck a pound.
2013 Oct 17
For sure Ontario grown veggies at .79 a pound are grown on large farms. Those farms use import labour to compete globally or at least on a North American scale. The foreign labour costs are cheap compared to local labour, but also not many people are willing to do that kind of hard work. I won't get into the politics - it would be too long a discussion.
As I've mentioned in similar threads - Ottawa does get ripped off with farmers market pricing. Go to Quebec and you see the difference. I still believe a lot of it has to do with scale. Small producers want to remain small and quaint and still make a living. That is certainly their right, and if the business model works for them (i.e. there is enough demand) then we will continue to see the price differential. Like most of the other things we consume, industrial processes and low cost labour make things affordable for most of the N.A. populous.
I'm pretty sure a large scale farm could supply very good organic produce, but maybe we don't have good enough land or parcels of land available to make that happen? Ottawa isn't exactly Holland Marsh.
There is also a chunk of community that would prefer to buy from a small operation just because there is a mind set that big is bad. I'm imagining a very funny portlandia sketch where they go crazy over a farmer that produces just one carefully/lovingly harvested carrot a year, well tended for and sung to ...
As I've mentioned in similar threads - Ottawa does get ripped off with farmers market pricing. Go to Quebec and you see the difference. I still believe a lot of it has to do with scale. Small producers want to remain small and quaint and still make a living. That is certainly their right, and if the business model works for them (i.e. there is enough demand) then we will continue to see the price differential. Like most of the other things we consume, industrial processes and low cost labour make things affordable for most of the N.A. populous.
I'm pretty sure a large scale farm could supply very good organic produce, but maybe we don't have good enough land or parcels of land available to make that happen? Ottawa isn't exactly Holland Marsh.
There is also a chunk of community that would prefer to buy from a small operation just because there is a mind set that big is bad. I'm imagining a very funny portlandia sketch where they go crazy over a farmer that produces just one carefully/lovingly harvested carrot a year, well tended for and sung to ...
2013 Oct 17
I'll say again what I essentially said in another thread on this board. When I go home to Small Town, Southern Ontario, and visit the farmer's market there, and I can buy three times the quantity of in-season asparagus for half the price the farmers at the Ottawa farmer's Market charge, I question the pricing. That is just one example, but the same pricing model applies to other vegetables. Presumably the farmers market in Small Town do not consider themselves a charity and therefore must be making money at the prices they sell their product for. Recently one vendor at the OFM was selling tomatoes for $5 a pound. I picked up one tomato thinking I would buy it but it would have cost $10. Big tomato yes, worth it to me, no. But, it was organic and for those who prefer organic produce no matter the cost (presumably having deep pockets) it was probably worth it.
2013 Oct 24
I know my mom grew some carrots this year and I had some of it and we finished them for thanksgiving dinner. Half of a square foot garden yielded about 20 carrots of varying sizes and I know I put in at least a bag of mushroom compost. uhmm don't think I will help her plant carrots next year since it is not really cost effective versus something like swiss chard or beets with beet tops.
2013 Oct 28
FoodTravel raises an excellent point, lots of things will grow fast at home and don't need allot of space to grow. I pay a little more for some things at the markets because I grow allot of my own stuff at home throughout the season and not having to buy them frees me up a little bit to splurge on some things I don't have the room to grow.
Anyone on this forum can grow enough lettuce to eat a nice starter salad everyday of the spring/summer for the cost of a pack of seeds. I saw Jamie Oliver growing lettuce at the base of a set of steps on one of his programs and I've never bought lettuce in the summer since. A small planter, a strip of dirt...and totally organic.
Anyone on this forum can grow enough lettuce to eat a nice starter salad everyday of the spring/summer for the cost of a pack of seeds. I saw Jamie Oliver growing lettuce at the base of a set of steps on one of his programs and I've never bought lettuce in the summer since. A small planter, a strip of dirt...and totally organic.
2014 May 17
Time for my semi-annual rant about pricing at the Ottawa Farmer's Market. Went to the Westboro location today as I wanted to buy some cheese and granola. Excellent granola, by the way, made and sold by Hearty Baker, $5 per bag. While there, I had a look around. They were charging $4 for 8 spears of asparagus which works out to 50 cents per spear. I was at my home town market in Southern Ontario this past weekend and bought a bunch of asparagus for which they also charged $4. The difference is that there were 33 spears in the bunch which works out to 12 cents per spear. That makes the ones sold by the OFM 316% more expensive. As mentioned in another post, the bakery in Westport charged $1 for a pretty nice looking Berliner. Art-Is-An at the market was charging $3. I don't mind paying a fair price but a 316% premium for asparagus and a 200% premium for a donut?
2014 May 17
But that's just donuts. Even the Carp farmar, which is generally understood to be the least expensive, is SEVERAL times more expensive similar markets in Kingston, Toronto and Montreal. I've been to three in Toronto, four in the Montreal area and the central Kingston one. Nobody can argue that rent in Toronto or Montreal would be less than a moderately downtown Ottawa rent.
Ottawa hates three things: Inexpensive ethnic food, food trucks and farmer's markets.
Ottawa hates three things: Inexpensive ethnic food, food trucks and farmer's markets.
2014 May 17
The market will absorb what customers are willing to pay. I spend very little time and money at our farmers markets and food events, as I don't see them as offering good value. There are exceptions of course, and I'm happy to pay a premium for niche or rare products.
If our prices are higher than other places, it's because our consumers are happy to shell out their cash! :-)
If our prices are higher than other places, it's because our consumers are happy to shell out their cash! :-)
2014 May 17
A simple thumbs down would be nice, but noooo, I have to type type type....Check the ice, that's not a great post. I don't think many are considering driving to Westport, but the fact remains that Westport is cheaper by a large margin. Sure they have cheaper rent, but also less traffic over a year. Plus, Westport is one of those areas where many would expect to pay more and many gladly do...not everything is cheaper there. They have "specialty items" that demand top dollar. But just think of the Westport peeps going to City Centre and seeing the same Berliners at a huge markup....they drove all this way AND have to pay a huge markup....LOL.
2014 May 18
"Three-dollar-donut" is the new "fourteen-dollar-pancakes".
Hmmm. Both statements were about Art Is In Bakery. Curious.
Hmmm. Both statements were about Art Is In Bakery. Curious.
2014 May 18
My only point, albeit poorly stated, was that comparing similarly-named products in different markets is a difficult proposition. AA simple bottle of water can command less than $0.10 when bought at Costco or $5 when purchased at Bluesfest.
I agree that the pricing at AII bakery seems steep, but that doesn't stop tons of people from frequenting the place, which proves, for them, the pricing is bang-on. If the vendor from the Farmers Market sells out of $4 asparagus, then his price is also correct. Pricing is a very delicate proposition, balancing profit with market forces.
As for Berliners, I wonder if a blind tasting would reveal that the three dollar treat is in fact 3x better?
I agree that the pricing at AII bakery seems steep, but that doesn't stop tons of people from frequenting the place, which proves, for them, the pricing is bang-on. If the vendor from the Farmers Market sells out of $4 asparagus, then his price is also correct. Pricing is a very delicate proposition, balancing profit with market forces.
As for Berliners, I wonder if a blind tasting would reveal that the three dollar treat is in fact 3x better?
2014 May 22
I really like the farmer/food co-op in Outaouais : Marche Outaouais.
They sell wine, chicken, vegetables and you see all the prices online before you order!
Brewer Park market I find quite pricey and also do not like how some vendors they leave dishes made with eggs outside all day or that if you go in the afternoon produce quality can be lousy when it is so hot outside.
The vendors in the Byward market are generally ok and often have big baskets of potato or carrots quite cheap.
Walked by today and kind of funny to see vendors selling strawberries and other berries when it is obv not even the season.
But the strawberries did look way better than what I saw at the grocery store lately.
They sell wine, chicken, vegetables and you see all the prices online before you order!
Brewer Park market I find quite pricey and also do not like how some vendors they leave dishes made with eggs outside all day or that if you go in the afternoon produce quality can be lousy when it is so hot outside.
The vendors in the Byward market are generally ok and often have big baskets of potato or carrots quite cheap.
Walked by today and kind of funny to see vendors selling strawberries and other berries when it is obv not even the season.
But the strawberries did look way better than what I saw at the grocery store lately.
Tree Pug