Canadian Celebrity Chefs Event at NAC [Events]
2011 Jan 6
After feeling royally jipped after that last lame Food & Wine show and a couple of other food events I'm on the fence on this one. It sure does sound exciting until I logged onto Ticketbastard and the prices listed are higher than that those listed on the NAC site and on top of that even more surcharges. Are those above advertised (lower) prices NAC box office prices?
The biggest thing stopping me from buying is the red notice at Ticketmaster: "The reception portion will be a walk around tasting format. Food portions will be kept to no more than two to three bites. Each national chef will collaborate with a local Ottawa Chef and their dish will be paired with a wine selection."
I'm still thinking I don't want to walk away again not getting good value with two to three bites again then everyone complaining and then having to finish the nite at a McDonald's drive-thru. You know who you are tee hee ;)
I heard Gold MedalPlates attendance was like 300 or so, down from 500 the previous year!? In my mind, Bon Appetit spoiled us year after year again in terms of widest selection of dishes and wines and beers!! So I'd rather save up for that and be ready the first day Bon Appetit 2011 goes on sale which is always sold out within the first few days. Don't get me wrong, this does sound like an exciting event, but the above quote is kinda making me think twice as I was expecting more or something special with such a heavy cast of cooks. Maybe I'm asking too much. Or maybe most of the cost is to fund the flights and hotels for the visiting chefs!
Just my 2 cents...
XOXOXO KC
The biggest thing stopping me from buying is the red notice at Ticketmaster: "The reception portion will be a walk around tasting format. Food portions will be kept to no more than two to three bites. Each national chef will collaborate with a local Ottawa Chef and their dish will be paired with a wine selection."
I'm still thinking I don't want to walk away again not getting good value with two to three bites again then everyone complaining and then having to finish the nite at a McDonald's drive-thru. You know who you are tee hee ;)
I heard Gold MedalPlates attendance was like 300 or so, down from 500 the previous year!? In my mind, Bon Appetit spoiled us year after year again in terms of widest selection of dishes and wines and beers!! So I'd rather save up for that and be ready the first day Bon Appetit 2011 goes on sale which is always sold out within the first few days. Don't get me wrong, this does sound like an exciting event, but the above quote is kinda making me think twice as I was expecting more or something special with such a heavy cast of cooks. Maybe I'm asking too much. Or maybe most of the cost is to fund the flights and hotels for the visiting chefs!
Just my 2 cents...
XOXOXO KC
2011 Jan 6
..."Maybe I'm asking too much. Or maybe most of the cost is to fund the flights and hotels for the visiting chefs!"...
@KC If you look at the event sponsors I highly doubt it. If I had to guess I'd say they're staying at the Arc for free as part of their sponsorship. There are only 8 out of town chefs listed. I doubt locals who's regular restaurants are just up the road will get rooms. For travel, 3 are from Toronto, 1 from Montreal, so the "expense" for 4 of them should be minimal. The 2 from Nova Scotia, 1 from Alberta and 1 from British Columbia are the ones where some money is spent on travel but then again, who knows what sort of deals the Food Network, NAC or any other affiliates/sponsors etc. get? Its also part of the cost of doing business. I'd say the expense might be venue set up (with how many kitchen set ups?) and the actual food (also sponsored, so I am not sure).
- - - - -
Maybe I am just a bit of an Eeyore but for me you can experience the meals for the hosting chefs at their restaurants (NAC, Brookstreet, Vittoria Trattoria, The Whalesbone Oyster House, Empire Grill, Atelier Restaurant, Beckta Dining and Wine, Juniper Dining) at your leisure with likely more satisfying and relaxed meals. I'd rather give them a real shot at my business and see what they can do on a normal basis rather than judge them on a tidbit that has been banged out for the masses. (Yes, I am saving up.)
You can take a short trip into Montreal to experience Kitchen Galerie.
Do a trip (perhaps a long weekend?) into Toronto, and experience Canoe, Dolce Vita, and Café Belong. I highly recommend checking out Winterlicious (www.toronto.com/winterlicious) if you've never experienced it. It can be a decent intro to a restaurant. Much better than the Taste of Winterlude event. (www.canadascapital.gc.ca)
For the rest (ROUGE in Calgary, Tempest Restaurant in Wolfville, MIX in Halifax and Hotel Eldorado in Kelowna) will take much more to be able to experience.
More than my 2 cents thrown in too...
@KC If you look at the event sponsors I highly doubt it. If I had to guess I'd say they're staying at the Arc for free as part of their sponsorship. There are only 8 out of town chefs listed. I doubt locals who's regular restaurants are just up the road will get rooms. For travel, 3 are from Toronto, 1 from Montreal, so the "expense" for 4 of them should be minimal. The 2 from Nova Scotia, 1 from Alberta and 1 from British Columbia are the ones where some money is spent on travel but then again, who knows what sort of deals the Food Network, NAC or any other affiliates/sponsors etc. get? Its also part of the cost of doing business. I'd say the expense might be venue set up (with how many kitchen set ups?) and the actual food (also sponsored, so I am not sure).
- - - - -
Maybe I am just a bit of an Eeyore but for me you can experience the meals for the hosting chefs at their restaurants (NAC, Brookstreet, Vittoria Trattoria, The Whalesbone Oyster House, Empire Grill, Atelier Restaurant, Beckta Dining and Wine, Juniper Dining) at your leisure with likely more satisfying and relaxed meals. I'd rather give them a real shot at my business and see what they can do on a normal basis rather than judge them on a tidbit that has been banged out for the masses. (Yes, I am saving up.)
You can take a short trip into Montreal to experience Kitchen Galerie.
Do a trip (perhaps a long weekend?) into Toronto, and experience Canoe, Dolce Vita, and Café Belong. I highly recommend checking out Winterlicious (www.toronto.com/winterlicious) if you've never experienced it. It can be a decent intro to a restaurant. Much better than the Taste of Winterlude event. (www.canadascapital.gc.ca)
For the rest (ROUGE in Calgary, Tempest Restaurant in Wolfville, MIX in Halifax and Hotel Eldorado in Kelowna) will take much more to be able to experience.
More than my 2 cents thrown in too...
2011 Jan 6
PPl expect stomach full of meal for the price of $75, $99, $145 for sure.
but I feel this way... "main dish" of this event is not actual food... (I guess food cost itself would be aroud 30% or less of MSP)
All the big name chefs come to Ottawa (NAC), get together, face off...they will show off what they can do!
That's what I expect for the price, it's like a show. also, I can sample their food at one place, without visiting all the restaurants...
I would pay for just fulfilling my culinary curiosity...just imagine NAC's huge kitchen will be full house:)
but I feel this way... "main dish" of this event is not actual food... (I guess food cost itself would be aroud 30% or less of MSP)
All the big name chefs come to Ottawa (NAC), get together, face off...they will show off what they can do!
That's what I expect for the price, it's like a show. also, I can sample their food at one place, without visiting all the restaurants...
I would pay for just fulfilling my culinary curiosity...just imagine NAC's huge kitchen will be full house:)
2011 Jan 6
Haha, it's the old ticketmaster surcharges. When I was looking at going to the wine and food show, I was hit with the same crap and was not happy about it.
Depending on the venue one is dealing with, they can ONLY use ticketmaster. I know that it is sometimes unavoidable, but I believe there are ticket outlets which do not charge those exorbitant fees?
Because of that, I wouldn't want to go either. It really left a sour taste in my mouth.
Depending on the venue one is dealing with, they can ONLY use ticketmaster. I know that it is sometimes unavoidable, but I believe there are ticket outlets which do not charge those exorbitant fees?
Because of that, I wouldn't want to go either. It really left a sour taste in my mouth.
2011 Jan 6
@KC: "Are those above advertised (lower) prices NAC box office prices? "
Yes, yes they are. When we bought Avenue Q tickets, I looked on Ticketmaster and then on the NAC website; the prices are consistently cheaper and don't have surcharges attached. You don't have to buy the tickets from Ticketmaster.
Yes, yes they are. When we bought Avenue Q tickets, I looked on Ticketmaster and then on the NAC website; the prices are consistently cheaper and don't have surcharges attached. You don't have to buy the tickets from Ticketmaster.
2011 Jan 8
The only food show I went to last year was Feast of Fields, and because of weather and maybe not being well advertised turnout was very small.
They were expecting 500ppl and there was maybe 250 at most.
You could go back to each station as often as you wanted and I was actually stuffed and barely had room for deserts.
-I did manage to take a tiny dessert tart and a couple cookies home (they were very small).
The cost for this event was just $45 and was only local chefs.
-it was a fun event, except it was cold out and this was an outdoor event...and it was rainy too...
For a more affordable event soon, there is Taste of the Glebe.
I have the info for that somewhere.
I have been to the Wine and Food show a few years ago when it was still at the Congress Centre.
But since they moved and it is so costly to get it I just have not bothered.
The Casino in Hull, they have a Quebec foods and wine show and that was just $10 to get in and food samples the most was $5 for a large plate of food from L'oree du bois :)
You could also buy Quebec food products to take home (jams,wines,cheeses).
-so that show I will go back too. I did spend more than expected,but bought some nice gifts and tasty things to eat.
I think this week there is also "cake boss" at the Nac?
Sounds neat,but I don't thing it is that fun to just watch someone talk about their baking.
I'd rather take a cooking class.
Also at Feast of Fields I got to ask quite a few of the chefs and producers food questions and got quite a lot of interesting info.
It was not super busy at each station, so it was not a very rushed event.
I took a bunch of food pics,but have not gotten around to posting them up.
They were expecting 500ppl and there was maybe 250 at most.
You could go back to each station as often as you wanted and I was actually stuffed and barely had room for deserts.
-I did manage to take a tiny dessert tart and a couple cookies home (they were very small).
The cost for this event was just $45 and was only local chefs.
-it was a fun event, except it was cold out and this was an outdoor event...and it was rainy too...
For a more affordable event soon, there is Taste of the Glebe.
I have the info for that somewhere.
I have been to the Wine and Food show a few years ago when it was still at the Congress Centre.
But since they moved and it is so costly to get it I just have not bothered.
The Casino in Hull, they have a Quebec foods and wine show and that was just $10 to get in and food samples the most was $5 for a large plate of food from L'oree du bois :)
You could also buy Quebec food products to take home (jams,wines,cheeses).
-so that show I will go back too. I did spend more than expected,but bought some nice gifts and tasty things to eat.
I think this week there is also "cake boss" at the Nac?
Sounds neat,but I don't thing it is that fun to just watch someone talk about their baking.
I'd rather take a cooking class.
Also at Feast of Fields I got to ask quite a few of the chefs and producers food questions and got quite a lot of interesting info.
It was not super busy at each station, so it was not a very rushed event.
I took a bunch of food pics,but have not gotten around to posting them up.
2011 Jan 8
Prettytasty: "Taste in the Glebe" is Thursday, January 20th 5:30 pm to 8 pm. Last year it cost $40 and they had 40 food and drink participants. I don't know what it costs this year or how to get tickets but at least you can mark your calendar if you are interested in going. * Will start new thread. **
2011 Jan 25
So it took place last night... Ron Eade had quite the critical commentary on his blog today, this seems to be more common from his column these days and it's less common to hear him actually comment on the food. I've heard a few things from friends regarding the event and now I don't know what to think about it. Was it a bust? Was it fun? Was the emcee out of line? Was the food even good? I've been to 'celebrity chef' cooking demos at the wine & food show in NYC sponsored by the food network, it was a pretty classy event and quite the opposite of what was illustrated in Eade's column (which isn't to say that his illustration is incorrect, just very different than a similarly themed event elsewhere in the culinary world).
2011 Jan 25
Sorry for being windy but here are a few comments from my view of the event.....
I was at the event yesterday. Most of Ron's observations are reasonably accurate.
At $99 (NAC box office price without Ticketmaster surcharge), the 8 sessions worked out to about $12 each. Actually less since we received lunch.
I tended to look at the value for money on three criteria - learning, inspiration and entertainment. With inspiration being my top, top criteria and entertainment being my lowest.
I personally find it hard to be super critical on the 'learning' because you always run the risk of having a room of very divergent culinary talents at such a function. If the room was full of people who never made risotto before except for a handful that find it 'about as challenging as a visit to the laundromat', then what? At no time did anyone level set the group and figure out the audience's cooking expertise and breadth of experience. That wasn't what bothered me about that portion of the show. David seemed to be partying a bit too much on stage. I would have preferred he packed the time slot with more content. Even if all that additional content is 'about as challenging as a visit to the laundromat'.
I do make risotto and think I don't do a bad job at it. After the presentation, I guess I felt inspired to try it with a non-stock option next time. Did I know I could do that before? Sure. But that is just how inspiration works I think. It puts you in that 'I just have to do that next time' energy. Same for curing as another example of being inspired to try that soon. And cold smoking, with lemongrass. Liked all the slaws. I do it some, but now want to do more. Think I need xanthan gum in my pantry to help with the suspension of pastes like the olive puree. Another 'inspiration'.
As for Kevin's behaviour...it was a bit 'edgy' to say the least. Not my thing by any means but in fairness not a total surprise. He is no Baptist preacher for those who missed the memo! Based on what I have seen of him before, I think he did what he typically does. My sense is that this doesn't play well to an Ottawa crowd. Other places may lap it up. Maybe Alton Brown is more Ottawa's speed. It ends up being a business decision, whether we agree with that or not. What sells.
A nice segue into Charlotte's shorts. If she can do that look as a chef, where conventional rules say hair back (and don't constantly touch it), proper whites with cuffs turned back, aproned, long pants and proper kitchen shoes, then that is her call. The health inspector may freak on the hair touching and not being back, but not sure they say much about the rest. If her clients don't care and she can fill her place, it may not matter how many people don't like it. As of yesterday, some of the audience may have been inspired by Charlotte's individuality to now try Whalesbone! Or some may decide that they are giving it a pass for now. Not their thing. I do like the professional look myself. Again, its business. What sells (within the by-laws of course!)
This kind of demo show is hard to put on when you have a requirement for two talents - top chef and stage presence. Some of the seasoned veterans who have done this before many times, knew how to work the crowd. No surprises that way either as to who enjoyed chatting and sharing through the demo and those who just wanted to be there as a great chef to cook. Just feeling very shy. Those with less stage presence, either didn't say much, didn't speak up enough or really mumbled too much. And we haven't even talked about 'chemistry' between the two when they were on stage. If that was there, it's icing on the cake.
As for when entertainment gets too far into shenanigans, the risk you run is you give the impression of being dismissive of your audience, their time and their money. And it did go that way more than it should have. I have to figure the organizers already know that and know to learn from it.
Janice Kelly in the comments section of Ron's food blog brings up an interesting point about bringing in professional organizers going forward. Not sure if any of that skill set was brought to the table but it seems like an excellent point. If I recall, there was some pro talent mentioned on the production. Peter? Blackie kept referring to Peter. Not sure if that was God too. Blackie had the vision and when it comes to the execution, likely good to leave that to the professionals.
I liked the HD camera on stage putting his lens into every pot so it showed on the big screen behind.
Nice to get recipe cards for all the dishes. Though some of them are incomplete and some are hard to follow. They should have been more 'cookbook' ready.
I mentioned that we received lunch too. I guess I didn't pick that problem sandwich choice that Ron had. Lucky for me. I loved my choices. I think there were 4 or 5 sandwich choices in all. Desserts were cute bites. Came with sparkling water and coffee. So now my price for each demo session is less than $12 since I received lunch! So maybe more like $10/$11 for each session.
I would have been fine if the day wasn't so long. 8 sessions is a lot. Maybe 6 would be better.
Blackie let us into the evening early as another perk for taking the whole day package. LOVED that. I would pay for that privilege. I am sure it helped the flow as well for when the big crowd descended. I hate line-ups and tend to avoid 600+ food events.
I payed another $45 for the evening portion of the program since I had a combo ticket. For 8 plates and 8 servings of wine, that works out to $5.60 (tax and tip ) for each dish and drink combo. That is not a rip-off considering the price of fast food. A tapas evening of sorts. The dishes ranged from 'fine' to 'loved it!!'.
Do I agree that there are some things that Blackie can do to tune up this show, you betcha. Do I think it was a fail, no. Do I think it has potential, absolutely. Considering my breakdown of pricing, I didn't think I got ripped off. Nice to have a day out with the hubby, who also loves thinking, learning and doing food.
I think the same things that bugged Ron and his many commenters, bugged me too. Just no where near as much it seems. I am getting too old to get too burned up on this one. I am saving the heat under my collar for bigger things in life. [Neither reaction is right or wrong in my world.]
I would love to hear a post-mortem from Blackie about the event. The good, the bad, the ugly. What he wants to tune up. What he must tune up to bring it to the next level. Neat if he brought together a little group of attendees (good mix of people, not too much alike, varying ages, varying interests, guts to be 'hard')to give him honest, respectful feedback. I personally want to see this event continue if it can. It is a neat idea.
At the end of the day, this is business. What kind of show will fill seats. It is up to Blackie to figure out if those that didn't like it are representative of who he sees as his target audience or not. In my experience, professionalism does sell. Now how do we package it with fun?
BTW, I am a food blogger too, although marketing events is not in my blog mandate. With close to 100 food bloggers in Ottawa now, I hope to hear more from Ron in the way of constructive criticism. I want to get better at my game and I welcome the respectful dialogue on this topic as it seems to be festering for a while.
I was at the event yesterday. Most of Ron's observations are reasonably accurate.
At $99 (NAC box office price without Ticketmaster surcharge), the 8 sessions worked out to about $12 each. Actually less since we received lunch.
I tended to look at the value for money on three criteria - learning, inspiration and entertainment. With inspiration being my top, top criteria and entertainment being my lowest.
I personally find it hard to be super critical on the 'learning' because you always run the risk of having a room of very divergent culinary talents at such a function. If the room was full of people who never made risotto before except for a handful that find it 'about as challenging as a visit to the laundromat', then what? At no time did anyone level set the group and figure out the audience's cooking expertise and breadth of experience. That wasn't what bothered me about that portion of the show. David seemed to be partying a bit too much on stage. I would have preferred he packed the time slot with more content. Even if all that additional content is 'about as challenging as a visit to the laundromat'.
I do make risotto and think I don't do a bad job at it. After the presentation, I guess I felt inspired to try it with a non-stock option next time. Did I know I could do that before? Sure. But that is just how inspiration works I think. It puts you in that 'I just have to do that next time' energy. Same for curing as another example of being inspired to try that soon. And cold smoking, with lemongrass. Liked all the slaws. I do it some, but now want to do more. Think I need xanthan gum in my pantry to help with the suspension of pastes like the olive puree. Another 'inspiration'.
As for Kevin's behaviour...it was a bit 'edgy' to say the least. Not my thing by any means but in fairness not a total surprise. He is no Baptist preacher for those who missed the memo! Based on what I have seen of him before, I think he did what he typically does. My sense is that this doesn't play well to an Ottawa crowd. Other places may lap it up. Maybe Alton Brown is more Ottawa's speed. It ends up being a business decision, whether we agree with that or not. What sells.
A nice segue into Charlotte's shorts. If she can do that look as a chef, where conventional rules say hair back (and don't constantly touch it), proper whites with cuffs turned back, aproned, long pants and proper kitchen shoes, then that is her call. The health inspector may freak on the hair touching and not being back, but not sure they say much about the rest. If her clients don't care and she can fill her place, it may not matter how many people don't like it. As of yesterday, some of the audience may have been inspired by Charlotte's individuality to now try Whalesbone! Or some may decide that they are giving it a pass for now. Not their thing. I do like the professional look myself. Again, its business. What sells (within the by-laws of course!)
This kind of demo show is hard to put on when you have a requirement for two talents - top chef and stage presence. Some of the seasoned veterans who have done this before many times, knew how to work the crowd. No surprises that way either as to who enjoyed chatting and sharing through the demo and those who just wanted to be there as a great chef to cook. Just feeling very shy. Those with less stage presence, either didn't say much, didn't speak up enough or really mumbled too much. And we haven't even talked about 'chemistry' between the two when they were on stage. If that was there, it's icing on the cake.
As for when entertainment gets too far into shenanigans, the risk you run is you give the impression of being dismissive of your audience, their time and their money. And it did go that way more than it should have. I have to figure the organizers already know that and know to learn from it.
Janice Kelly in the comments section of Ron's food blog brings up an interesting point about bringing in professional organizers going forward. Not sure if any of that skill set was brought to the table but it seems like an excellent point. If I recall, there was some pro talent mentioned on the production. Peter? Blackie kept referring to Peter. Not sure if that was God too. Blackie had the vision and when it comes to the execution, likely good to leave that to the professionals.
I liked the HD camera on stage putting his lens into every pot so it showed on the big screen behind.
Nice to get recipe cards for all the dishes. Though some of them are incomplete and some are hard to follow. They should have been more 'cookbook' ready.
I mentioned that we received lunch too. I guess I didn't pick that problem sandwich choice that Ron had. Lucky for me. I loved my choices. I think there were 4 or 5 sandwich choices in all. Desserts were cute bites. Came with sparkling water and coffee. So now my price for each demo session is less than $12 since I received lunch! So maybe more like $10/$11 for each session.
I would have been fine if the day wasn't so long. 8 sessions is a lot. Maybe 6 would be better.
Blackie let us into the evening early as another perk for taking the whole day package. LOVED that. I would pay for that privilege. I am sure it helped the flow as well for when the big crowd descended. I hate line-ups and tend to avoid 600+ food events.
I payed another $45 for the evening portion of the program since I had a combo ticket. For 8 plates and 8 servings of wine, that works out to $5.60 (tax and tip ) for each dish and drink combo. That is not a rip-off considering the price of fast food. A tapas evening of sorts. The dishes ranged from 'fine' to 'loved it!!'.
Do I agree that there are some things that Blackie can do to tune up this show, you betcha. Do I think it was a fail, no. Do I think it has potential, absolutely. Considering my breakdown of pricing, I didn't think I got ripped off. Nice to have a day out with the hubby, who also loves thinking, learning and doing food.
I think the same things that bugged Ron and his many commenters, bugged me too. Just no where near as much it seems. I am getting too old to get too burned up on this one. I am saving the heat under my collar for bigger things in life. [Neither reaction is right or wrong in my world.]
I would love to hear a post-mortem from Blackie about the event. The good, the bad, the ugly. What he wants to tune up. What he must tune up to bring it to the next level. Neat if he brought together a little group of attendees (good mix of people, not too much alike, varying ages, varying interests, guts to be 'hard')to give him honest, respectful feedback. I personally want to see this event continue if it can. It is a neat idea.
At the end of the day, this is business. What kind of show will fill seats. It is up to Blackie to figure out if those that didn't like it are representative of who he sees as his target audience or not. In my experience, professionalism does sell. Now how do we package it with fun?
BTW, I am a food blogger too, although marketing events is not in my blog mandate. With close to 100 food bloggers in Ottawa now, I hope to hear more from Ron in the way of constructive criticism. I want to get better at my game and I welcome the respectful dialogue on this topic as it seems to be festering for a while.
2011 Jan 25
...and so ends the Ron Eade/Michael Blackie bromance
[credit to Chimichimi for coining that one awhile back]
[credit to Chimichimi for coining that one awhile back]
2011 Jan 25
Monty - my thoughts exactly. Thanks for the credit! lol
Not sure if Ron is setting himself up as the pariah of the food writing community, but I think the article came across as overly harsh for public dissemination - might have been best to convey some of these critiques mano-a-mano with his bromantic partner over some late night foie gras. On the flip side, if enough people were complaining, it's good to put a public voice to that. I'm hearing so many varying points of view on the event that I don't know what to think - hopefully the SO won't be sick next year and I'll be able to form my own experience based opinion!
Not sure if Ron is setting himself up as the pariah of the food writing community, but I think the article came across as overly harsh for public dissemination - might have been best to convey some of these critiques mano-a-mano with his bromantic partner over some late night foie gras. On the flip side, if enough people were complaining, it's good to put a public voice to that. I'm hearing so many varying points of view on the event that I don't know what to think - hopefully the SO won't be sick next year and I'll be able to form my own experience based opinion!
2011 Jan 26
Speaking as someone who has organized events (not foodie events) in the past where celebrity emcees have run amok, perhaps Ron has already heard so many negative comments that he had to address them in his blog. In my experience, my phone rang off the hook with complaints for three days about the demi-celebrity host. It's unfortunate that things may have missed the mark this time around, but I do think the criticism is constructive and won't hurt attendance in the future. It didn't compromise either attendance or philanthropy at future events in my case.
2011 Jan 26
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Ron Eade is a very polarizing food writer. I don't think that this piece will do him service in the future, as he's basically pitted himself against the food bloggers (which, he is one, isn't he?), giving the classist perspective that food journalists are above food bloggers.
His perspective of the event is worth noting, yes. But his rant in the comments about food bloggers, I found to be a bit disrespectful, not to mention hypocritical.
His perspective of the event is worth noting, yes. But his rant in the comments about food bloggers, I found to be a bit disrespectful, not to mention hypocritical.
2011 Jan 26
The reason I'm so curious is because I've been to Food Network sponsored events before in NYC, including celeb chef demos, etc. The demos ranged from instructional to bust your gut hilarious entertainment - you got what you'd expect from these chef 'personalities'. In that sense, I wonder if people had skewed expectations? I've got to say though that despite the strong personalities at the NYC event, never did they once come across as offensive or use harsh language in their demos (despite some stoner/frat jokes and poop and fart jokes by a couple of prominent food network personalities). I would not be surprised if there were some changes made to next year's event if complaints/critiques made their way to the sponsors, where it matters most perhaps (?) I'm happy to hear that some took the time to speak to the organizers personally to air concerns, this is an effective way of making change without smearing everyone who participated. I truly hope the negative public attention does not impede future planning for this event, I hope people can just be attentive, absorb, change game plan for next year and move on!
2011 Jan 27
LWB - He's a food-journalist-blogger :) He may be polarizing to the degree of 'agent provocateur', only time will tell I suppose.
Michael Blackie, organizer and chef @ Le Café NAC had this to say on his Facebook:
"Well everyone, I had an idea that I decided to make into reality.
Considering I brought together 20 brilliantly talented people who only met the night before the event for the first time, this first Celebrity Chefs Event was magic. The true kudos goes to the chefs, waitstaff, stage hands, sponsors, wineries and countless volunteers who rallied behind me in making this event come to life.
I wish to thank you all from the bottom of my heart and a big warm wet kiss to my wife Jillian who doesn't know me anymore along with my children for the hours of dedication that I poured into this event. From their mouths " It was worth all the sacrifice".
Until next year, this Facebook page fades from the limelight / controversy / foie gras + Kevin Brauch bashers / way to serious "surprise free lunch" commentators / toffee nose potty mouth washers / and get me a bigger coat check room winers...
Your comments do not come anywhere close to those that stated.. "This is unbelievable " "Best event I have ever been to" " I have had so much fun","Please do this again", "It felt like Xmas Eve", "I was Blown away" "I am so proud to be in Ottawa and have this show here"
F.Y.I Over 50 complementary tickets where given away to the "All day event" in order for us to obtain the coverage we required, this included not only the bloggers, cameramen but Ron Eade as well.. Cheers... MB"
Michael Blackie, organizer and chef @ Le Café NAC had this to say on his Facebook:
"Well everyone, I had an idea that I decided to make into reality.
Considering I brought together 20 brilliantly talented people who only met the night before the event for the first time, this first Celebrity Chefs Event was magic. The true kudos goes to the chefs, waitstaff, stage hands, sponsors, wineries and countless volunteers who rallied behind me in making this event come to life.
I wish to thank you all from the bottom of my heart and a big warm wet kiss to my wife Jillian who doesn't know me anymore along with my children for the hours of dedication that I poured into this event. From their mouths " It was worth all the sacrifice".
Until next year, this Facebook page fades from the limelight / controversy / foie gras + Kevin Brauch bashers / way to serious "surprise free lunch" commentators / toffee nose potty mouth washers / and get me a bigger coat check room winers...
Your comments do not come anywhere close to those that stated.. "This is unbelievable " "Best event I have ever been to" " I have had so much fun","Please do this again", "It felt like Xmas Eve", "I was Blown away" "I am so proud to be in Ottawa and have this show here"
F.Y.I Over 50 complementary tickets where given away to the "All day event" in order for us to obtain the coverage we required, this included not only the bloggers, cameramen but Ron Eade as well.. Cheers... MB"
2011 Jan 27
There have been a few threads involving Mr. Eade that I have chosen not to become involved with because who really needs more conflict in life? Unfortunately, a nerve was touched with me when Mr. Eade's noted that he had credentials and experience and notes that is a “Big difference from bloggers”. I did not have a massive problem with the column he actually wrote pertaining to the event but I also was not there. Anyway, I would like share a few of my own views in reaction to his claims vis-a-vis bloggers:
1) I think Mr. Eade knows a lot about food and I think he probably knows more about most food related things than I do. However, like too many writers, in my opinion, he often mistakes his own opinions for established facts and knowledge which, unless you are God, your opinions are not. Moreover, I know from discussions on here that Mr. Eade can, at times, be rather biting and negative when it comes to criticism of things he does not like/disagrees with (e.g. Cobra discussion) or opinions that diverge from his own. That is probably the primary reason I don’t visit Omnivore’s Ottawa all that often. I simply don’t have a lot of time for people who can be overly negative, who place significant value on their own opinion and are quick to dismiss the views of others. That’s a shame, because it would be nice to have a local foodie blog to visit and read regularly. In writing this entry, I did poke around Omnivore’s Ottawa and thought his entry on super market specials was excellent. I must also confess, I am intrigued by the Omnivores Supper club but given the above, I don’t see myself ever going.
2) Does journalistic experience and credentials make one person’s work superior to that of a food blogger? Not to me. There are some good journalists but to be frank the there are a lot of bad ones – or at least, there is a lot of bad journalism perhaps due more to the time, editorial and work constraints that journalists now face. I don’t know how many times I have read stories where reporters have got basic facts wrong or were missing important information – much of which can often be obtained by this ultra secret technique called google.
In contrast, there are some bloggers where I am absolutely amazed at their dedication and the knowledge they possess - but I do acknowledge there are a lot bad ones too. Having known more than a few journalists in my day, the type of course work required in journalism programs, and the quality of journalism today, I am simply not prepared to acknowledge the superiority of a journalist compared to a blogger. Like most things in life, the real answer is “it depends”.
3) Mr. Eade also claimed that he works for an organization with high standards. I don’t read the Citizen very often anymore and I rarely go the Citizen website because I find the quality of the reporting to be substandard. When I did read it regularly, I found important facts were often missing or wrong. In terms of sports, all I can say is the coverage of the Senators was deplorable. Too many of its columnists seemed to me to be more interesting in portraying their own views as the truth rather than presenting a balanced argument (i.e. one that acknowledges their own argument’s weakness and the strengths of counter arguments – any idiot will win an argument against a strawman). A few years back, one member of the editorial board was found guilty of plagiarism. While the Citizen can be quick to condemn others (especially in government), they showed remarkable understanding for this editorial board member who was retained as a writer and permitted to write the article explaining what had happened in the plagiarism case. High standards indeed. I find it impossible to believe that Mr. Eade is not aware that many people in Ottawa do not have high opinion of the Citizen. So why bother claiming high standards when lots of people would dispute them?
For me, I gather most of my foodie type information on a daily basis by visiting this site and Tastespotting (not just for the photos but for the links that come with them). In my opinion, Tastespotting leaves the Citizen’s food section in its dust and I prefer this site to the Citizen because if offers a diversity of views and a lot of information on the local foodie scene. In some instances, the people participating on this board are currently working or have worked in the food/restaurant industry. I place a lot of value on their opinions. They are true professionals with the relevant experience and in some instances relevant credentials. I will take them over a journalist any day but having said that, I do value Mr. Eade’s contributions to this site when he offers valuable information and respectful opinions.
But I do value information found in newspapers and their websites and throughout the week I also read articles by chefs in the Globe and Mail, and dining articles in NY Times – especially those by Mark Bittman. For me, the Minimalist was the best food column I ever came across (it was published for the last time on Jan 25 but Bittman will continue on with opinion columns and a weekly recipe in the Times Magazine. A collection of his columns can be found here -topics.nytimes.com) Personally, I always found Bittman to be self-effacing and he certainly did not come across as egotistical in the many cooking videos he did for the NY Times. I believe in one of his cookbooks he started off by noting that he is not and never has been a professional chef but rather begged and borrowed from chefs for recipes and other food related ideas. That’s the kind of food journalist I like to read. One who works hard to build up knowledge, gather information from those who know more and check their ego at the door when sit down to write. If a food journalist like that emerges in Ottawa, or Mr. Eade adopts a new style in his writing, let me know – I will be a regular reader.
Anyway, thought I would share. Cheers
1) I think Mr. Eade knows a lot about food and I think he probably knows more about most food related things than I do. However, like too many writers, in my opinion, he often mistakes his own opinions for established facts and knowledge which, unless you are God, your opinions are not. Moreover, I know from discussions on here that Mr. Eade can, at times, be rather biting and negative when it comes to criticism of things he does not like/disagrees with (e.g. Cobra discussion) or opinions that diverge from his own. That is probably the primary reason I don’t visit Omnivore’s Ottawa all that often. I simply don’t have a lot of time for people who can be overly negative, who place significant value on their own opinion and are quick to dismiss the views of others. That’s a shame, because it would be nice to have a local foodie blog to visit and read regularly. In writing this entry, I did poke around Omnivore’s Ottawa and thought his entry on super market specials was excellent. I must also confess, I am intrigued by the Omnivores Supper club but given the above, I don’t see myself ever going.
2) Does journalistic experience and credentials make one person’s work superior to that of a food blogger? Not to me. There are some good journalists but to be frank the there are a lot of bad ones – or at least, there is a lot of bad journalism perhaps due more to the time, editorial and work constraints that journalists now face. I don’t know how many times I have read stories where reporters have got basic facts wrong or were missing important information – much of which can often be obtained by this ultra secret technique called google.
In contrast, there are some bloggers where I am absolutely amazed at their dedication and the knowledge they possess - but I do acknowledge there are a lot bad ones too. Having known more than a few journalists in my day, the type of course work required in journalism programs, and the quality of journalism today, I am simply not prepared to acknowledge the superiority of a journalist compared to a blogger. Like most things in life, the real answer is “it depends”.
3) Mr. Eade also claimed that he works for an organization with high standards. I don’t read the Citizen very often anymore and I rarely go the Citizen website because I find the quality of the reporting to be substandard. When I did read it regularly, I found important facts were often missing or wrong. In terms of sports, all I can say is the coverage of the Senators was deplorable. Too many of its columnists seemed to me to be more interesting in portraying their own views as the truth rather than presenting a balanced argument (i.e. one that acknowledges their own argument’s weakness and the strengths of counter arguments – any idiot will win an argument against a strawman). A few years back, one member of the editorial board was found guilty of plagiarism. While the Citizen can be quick to condemn others (especially in government), they showed remarkable understanding for this editorial board member who was retained as a writer and permitted to write the article explaining what had happened in the plagiarism case. High standards indeed. I find it impossible to believe that Mr. Eade is not aware that many people in Ottawa do not have high opinion of the Citizen. So why bother claiming high standards when lots of people would dispute them?
For me, I gather most of my foodie type information on a daily basis by visiting this site and Tastespotting (not just for the photos but for the links that come with them). In my opinion, Tastespotting leaves the Citizen’s food section in its dust and I prefer this site to the Citizen because if offers a diversity of views and a lot of information on the local foodie scene. In some instances, the people participating on this board are currently working or have worked in the food/restaurant industry. I place a lot of value on their opinions. They are true professionals with the relevant experience and in some instances relevant credentials. I will take them over a journalist any day but having said that, I do value Mr. Eade’s contributions to this site when he offers valuable information and respectful opinions.
But I do value information found in newspapers and their websites and throughout the week I also read articles by chefs in the Globe and Mail, and dining articles in NY Times – especially those by Mark Bittman. For me, the Minimalist was the best food column I ever came across (it was published for the last time on Jan 25 but Bittman will continue on with opinion columns and a weekly recipe in the Times Magazine. A collection of his columns can be found here -topics.nytimes.com) Personally, I always found Bittman to be self-effacing and he certainly did not come across as egotistical in the many cooking videos he did for the NY Times. I believe in one of his cookbooks he started off by noting that he is not and never has been a professional chef but rather begged and borrowed from chefs for recipes and other food related ideas. That’s the kind of food journalist I like to read. One who works hard to build up knowledge, gather information from those who know more and check their ego at the door when sit down to write. If a food journalist like that emerges in Ottawa, or Mr. Eade adopts a new style in his writing, let me know – I will be a regular reader.
Anyway, thought I would share. Cheers
2011 Jan 27
Thanks medicinejar ... I too was triggered by Mr. Eade's opinion of himself vs. bloggers.
I have read most of Mr Eade's blogs and other foodie blogs from this city, as well as some good entries here in OF. If I was Mr Eade (working for an industry with falling readership), I would be 'on edge' about my job.
I would be worried about being replaced by a blogger who could blow me out of the water on food knowledge (and possibly penmanship). A young blogger (wanting experince) who could freelance for a fraction of the salary + benefits that the Citizen is currently paying.
I would be worried ... very worried.
I have read most of Mr Eade's blogs and other foodie blogs from this city, as well as some good entries here in OF. If I was Mr Eade (working for an industry with falling readership), I would be 'on edge' about my job.
I would be worried about being replaced by a blogger who could blow me out of the water on food knowledge (and possibly penmanship). A young blogger (wanting experince) who could freelance for a fraction of the salary + benefits that the Citizen is currently paying.
I would be worried ... very worried.
2011 Jan 27
Very thoughtfully written, medicinejar. I have been following this story too, though I didn't attend the event either. I am not a fan of Mr Eade's blog or newspaper writing for the same reasons you mention above. I hadn't thought of the reasons you mention, Captain Caper, but it's an interesting perspective. Like many of you, I read widely on the subject of food, and I think the quality on many blogs surpasses Mr Eade's blog and newspaper writing.
I find thefood.ca a very good place to find out what local and national bloggers are up to.
I find thefood.ca a very good place to find out what local and national bloggers are up to.
2011 Jan 28
It's absolutely fine not to like a professional journalist's style, politics or content or prefer an amateur blog; I can think of many journalists that I loathe. But in my view equating a profession with a hobby lacks perspective.
Professional journalists obtain specific education and are hired based on a proven body of work. They presumably keep their job (and the platform that goes along with it) based on a continued level of production and standard of professionalism. None of this necessarily applies to a blogger.
Perhaps that's an old-fashioned view of things, if so I'm comfortable being old-fashioned.
Professional journalists obtain specific education and are hired based on a proven body of work. They presumably keep their job (and the platform that goes along with it) based on a continued level of production and standard of professionalism. None of this necessarily applies to a blogger.
Perhaps that's an old-fashioned view of things, if so I'm comfortable being old-fashioned.
2011 Jan 28
You're right, none of the standards that are set for journalists (education, work or life experience) necessarily apply to a blogger. But, to many of the successful bloggers out there, they do. As the blogosphere becomes increasingly full, if one wants to be a successful blogger, then they need to implement some of the tactics, strategies and skills that have made past writers of content also so successful, and then some.
One might hold Ron Eade to a greater level of expectation because he has twelve years of experience and was an investigative reporter on the Hill before then. But, truth be told, if a blog is garnering thousands upon thousands of hits each day, a certain amount of 'professionalism' (even if it is different from that of the journalist and even if that blogger isn't blogging for money) has to be maintained.
One might hold Ron Eade to a greater level of expectation because he has twelve years of experience and was an investigative reporter on the Hill before then. But, truth be told, if a blog is garnering thousands upon thousands of hits each day, a certain amount of 'professionalism' (even if it is different from that of the journalist and even if that blogger isn't blogging for money) has to be maintained.
2011 Jan 28
"Professional journalists obtain specific education and are hired based on a proven body of work. They presumably keep their job (and the platform that goes along with it) based on a continued level of production and standard of professionalism. None of this necessarily applies to a blogger."
I know we are getting off food topics here but I will say just a few things in response. Overall, I think that everyone really needs to make up their own minds on this in terms of where they place value. The key questions for me are: Do credentials necessarily mean quality will result? How much importance should we place on journalistic experience and education?
1) Not all journalists have a specific education. In fact, there are some who do not have university degrees (though I would acknowledge that's not a lot - at least in print). Moreover, some do not have much experience or education in what they are writing about and it shows. That to me is the key issue. I would probably put a lot more stock in the credentials of a food blog written by a former or current chef or by someone who has a longterm personal passion for food than most journalists who write about food. Finally, I am very,very familiar with the training offered in bachelor and masters of journalism programs and I am not bowled over by it. But really, does it matter if someone has an MJ or a PhD? Should not the quality of the work itself be the real question? I am quite well educated and while I have met a lot of smart people with impressive credentials, to be frank, I have also met a lot of stupid and lazy people with those credentials too (more than a few professors come to mind).
2) How would you describe the quality of journalism in this country and south of the border? For me, with some exceptions, it's absolutely deplorable. I regularly spot important factual errors and a tendency to go for the sensational. There are columnists, including some at the Ottawa Citizen, that use their column to grind axes and that's highly unprofessional in my view. Reasoned discussion about politics is rare in our newspapers and too much investigative journalism is sensational and claims for scandals are made where none exist or innocent mistakes were made. That might be due to the fact that newspapers do not let journalists work long term on issues as was the case with Watergate and investigative journalism in the past. That's my assessment and why I just don't put much stock in the claim that someone was an investigative journalist.
3) The question of a columnist's political views does not really bother me provided that when they articulate an argument in a column they acknowledge its weaknesses and the strengths of other views. That's what intelligent discussions do and it's all too rare in North American journalism. Today columns are too often filled with opinions rather than a solid argument based on well research facts. I would rather read a good column or article that argues for a view I disagree with than a bad one that promotes I a view I support. And I guess for me, the problem I have with a number food journalists, especially restaurant reviewers, is the tendency to offer opinions, that are often mean spirited, and in place of disseminating knowledge and information about whatever it is they are writing about. The food blogs and food journalists I gravitate to are the ones that focus on disseminating knowledge and information about food and spend a lot less time on their opinions.
In a nutshell, there are lots of bad food bloggers but there are lots of bad food journalists too.
Cheers
I know we are getting off food topics here but I will say just a few things in response. Overall, I think that everyone really needs to make up their own minds on this in terms of where they place value. The key questions for me are: Do credentials necessarily mean quality will result? How much importance should we place on journalistic experience and education?
1) Not all journalists have a specific education. In fact, there are some who do not have university degrees (though I would acknowledge that's not a lot - at least in print). Moreover, some do not have much experience or education in what they are writing about and it shows. That to me is the key issue. I would probably put a lot more stock in the credentials of a food blog written by a former or current chef or by someone who has a longterm personal passion for food than most journalists who write about food. Finally, I am very,very familiar with the training offered in bachelor and masters of journalism programs and I am not bowled over by it. But really, does it matter if someone has an MJ or a PhD? Should not the quality of the work itself be the real question? I am quite well educated and while I have met a lot of smart people with impressive credentials, to be frank, I have also met a lot of stupid and lazy people with those credentials too (more than a few professors come to mind).
2) How would you describe the quality of journalism in this country and south of the border? For me, with some exceptions, it's absolutely deplorable. I regularly spot important factual errors and a tendency to go for the sensational. There are columnists, including some at the Ottawa Citizen, that use their column to grind axes and that's highly unprofessional in my view. Reasoned discussion about politics is rare in our newspapers and too much investigative journalism is sensational and claims for scandals are made where none exist or innocent mistakes were made. That might be due to the fact that newspapers do not let journalists work long term on issues as was the case with Watergate and investigative journalism in the past. That's my assessment and why I just don't put much stock in the claim that someone was an investigative journalist.
3) The question of a columnist's political views does not really bother me provided that when they articulate an argument in a column they acknowledge its weaknesses and the strengths of other views. That's what intelligent discussions do and it's all too rare in North American journalism. Today columns are too often filled with opinions rather than a solid argument based on well research facts. I would rather read a good column or article that argues for a view I disagree with than a bad one that promotes I a view I support. And I guess for me, the problem I have with a number food journalists, especially restaurant reviewers, is the tendency to offer opinions, that are often mean spirited, and in place of disseminating knowledge and information about whatever it is they are writing about. The food blogs and food journalists I gravitate to are the ones that focus on disseminating knowledge and information about food and spend a lot less time on their opinions.
In a nutshell, there are lots of bad food bloggers but there are lots of bad food journalists too.
Cheers
2011 Feb 1
Shawna Wagman, Ottawa Magazine, has just put up her review of the Celebrity Chef's event from last Monday.
www.ottawamagazine.com
www.ottawamagazine.com
2011 Feb 1
I just saw this in my RSS feed. Her points and concerns seem quite valid and they pretty much excuse me for never going out of my way to attend large-scale "foodie" events myself. :-)
I love great food and I like to linger over it in good company with the opportunity for worthwhile conversation. Ms Wagman's experiences suggest that one runs the risk of getting none of these things at big foodie events.
I love great food and I like to linger over it in good company with the opportunity for worthwhile conversation. Ms Wagman's experiences suggest that one runs the risk of getting none of these things at big foodie events.
Icecream
Live Demos by Chefs $99 and Food and Wine Tasting $75
Live Demo and Reception package: $145
Hosting Chefs – Ottawa
Michael Blackie, National Arts Centre
Clifford Lyness, Brookstreet
Cesare Santaguida, Vittoria Trattoria
Charlotte Langley, The Whalesbone Oyster House
Robyn Bowen, Empire Grill
Marc Lepine, Atelier Restaurant
Michael Moffatt, Beckta Dining and Wine
Norm Aitken, Juniper Dining
www.nac-cna.ca