Home winemaking [Booze]

2009 Dec 1
Do any of you make your own wine, either at home or at an on-premises facility? I'm just starting out with the hobby in my basement -- bottling my first batch of very cheap stuff today -- and I love the whole process. While I hold no delusions about the quality of this batch, only time will tell if higher end products will be good enough to replace visits to the LCBO. :-)

Anyway, I added a couple of vendors related to the hobby. I noticed that the internet has no opinion-based reviews of home winemaking kits, so I'm harnessing the power of Ottawa Foodies to remedy the situation.

Defalco's - Defalco's
Wine Kitz - Wine Kitz

Home winemakers, past and present, please feel free to come out of the woodwork and share your experiences here!

2009 Dec 1
I've never tried wine, but from some of my brewing friends who do it what I gather is that if you really want to be replacing the finer wines at the LCBO you have to get into pressing your own grapes - which fortunately you can do with the help of Musca and a few other places in Little Italy, every fall.

Though some of the higher-end kids probably make a wine that I personally would never be able to tell from the LCBO stuff :-)

2009 Dec 1
You might be pleasantly surprised at the quality of your first batch.

I usually buy my kits from Costco. They seem to alternate between two different brands (no real difference in quality).

One problem is variety. They usually only have the standby chardonnay, sauv blanc, merlot, cab sauve.

Anyways what I really like about their kits is the consistency. I have never had a problem. I think I only had one yeast pkt that didn't start correctly (have made over 100 batches).

Dollar for dollar - these kits provide excellent value. They regularly so on sale for around $50 for a double batch. Its great having your own stockpile of wine in the basement. Definitely cuts down on the trips to the lcbo.

I know a lot of winemakers really get into their craft. Speaking for myself - I don't see the value in spending $150 on one batch. I have tried the more expensive kits and always revert back. Stay away from the inexpensive beer kits though - they are garbage.

Feel free to ask any questions - I'd be happy to share my experiences.

2009 Dec 1
FF; For financial reasons we decided to give making our own wine a try. We went with the Wine Station on Bank st. They are wonderful! We made the following:
-Cabernet Sauvignon, Sonoma Valley
-Merlot, New Zealand (the best so far)
-Pinot Noir, Chilean
-Barolo, Italy

It was a great experience, the Cab had different types of wood chips that you mixed in and also a bag of real crushed grapes. Many of their concentrates/kits comes from Peller in Niagara..very good quality.

The Cab and the Barolo are not really ready to drink now, needs to age about 12 months. Also can be aged for about 6 years...not like many moons ago when home made wines had to be consumed within 6 months...remember that?!

Here is a link to pics of our wines....
thedogthecatandeverythinginbetween.blogspot.com

2009 Dec 1
I've heard good things about the Costco kits as well.

2009 Dec 1
I have tried several kit wines, mainly reds, and I doubt they will ever approach the quality of anything other than the lowest priced store bought wines; the big reason is the juice.

The grapes that end up as juice in kits are the ones grown with an eye towards maximizing yield and efficiency for the grower. That is to say, at huge crop densities, with mechanized harvest, and all that other bad-for-quality stuff. Then post harvest, they have to endure being trucked around, crushed, filtered and then blended in with all the other bulk grape juice from the area. Then it's shipped and blended into a bigger batch somewhere else.

How can this compete with grapes that are i) well-cared for and ii) crushed at the winery and used for making wine within hours (or less!) of harvest? Bulk juice just gives you wine that is like an amnesiac; it has no idea where it comes from or where it's been.

I also don't see how a few months sitting in a tank with random oak chips can compare to a couple of years of slow maturation in a barrel; but the big killer is grape/juice quality.

The more I think about it, the more wine kits sound like the fast food of the wine world; cheap, consistent, homogenized. That's not to say I don't love McDonald's cheeseburgers, but I wouldn't say they are comparable to a Kobe burger at Luxe...


2009 Dec 1
Exactly urban. Which is why you have to get into crushing your own grapes if you want to really excel at this.

Though I'm also told that reds (since you mentioned it) are especially hard to do from kits - easier to do whites that approach what you buy.

2009 Dec 1
Just my two cents here (and also to confirm what urbanroutine and zymurgist said). I tried my hand at wine making a few years ago at the persuasion of my ex. We both developed an appreciation of wine so we thought we'd try our hand at making some. We made a Pinot Noir and the kit we used looked like concentrated grape juice. When the wine was bottled and ready to drink it had a pleasant taste at first but became more acidic as it aged. I made my wine at Defalco's and with some persistance and the staff's expertise I might have been able to tinker with it a bit to develop a better product. But I tried it once and I decided it just wasn't for me.

The one downside is that I ended up with 75 bottles of Pinot Noir (don't get me wrong it's my favourite) but I do like to enjoy a variety of wines.

Good luck with your wine making and keep us posted.

2009 Dec 1
friends don't let friends make wine....

i really hide from homemade wine. first i don't always feel like the same wine, i like trying new things, i don't like headaches (seems to come with homemade wine) and you can buy cheap, good wine.

my parents made wine while i was growing up. the kits back then were bad. they ended up striking a deal with a winery and buying the juice right from them at harvest time. if you are keen on doing it yourself, perhaps play with the kits/equipment, but think about investing in some higher quality juice? (plus a good excuse to go visit a winery to pick up the juice).

we were lucky at the time because we lived next door to a small winery. a little more challenging here in ottawa, but still do-able.

have fun learning this new skill and if the product isn't what you hoped for, don't give up, but try again using the juice.

if you decide to buy the grapes, there is nothing more fun than grape stomping!

2009 Dec 1
i also flirted w/ the Defalco kits and higher end juices, once by myself and then with a couple other people, did a whole whack of varietals (maybe 12 in total). It was a fun and communal activity, not that expensive, and somewhat educational in terms of experiencing the cellaring effect at different stages. And, as a further positive, it did provide me w/ a short-lived sense of "having arrived", what with the returning from the "cellar" every night w/ a different bottle.

But, back to LCBO plonk and probably (like others) i wouldn't repeat. And reading the reviews by BDM (et al), i suspect the next time i have that urge to burn a couple hundred on wine-related activities, perhaps i'll head to the Niagra / PEC for estate visits.

I will say most of the whites turned out drinkable in a short period of time. Possible reflects my relative lack of couth / palette in this area (white wines). And even a couple of the reds came through in a manner comparable to $8-12 versions of what you'd get off the shelf: some surprisingly good Malbec (imo), some ok Merlots and possibly some ok shiraz.

Disappointing, for me, were the premium kits i (optimistically) hoped would deliver greater returns: Barolos, the Amarones, etc. Drinkable, but very fruity and little complexity, even after 4 yrs in the basement.

2009 Dec 3
LOL, like most of the other folks who have posted here... I too have tried my hand at making my own wine... and like the experiences had by others, at some point I decided to give up because even though it was "economical" it wasn't worth it.

I've done it all... fruit wine made from juice, wine kits from Defalco's and even those places where you go and just show up to pick your product, give it a stir, and bottle the final result when the wait time has passed (although the wood chips are a "shocking" surprise to me... don't think that can be a good thing).

Everyone has to start somewhere... (lol, back in the 70s most of us began our wine journey with Baby Duck). I suppose that this is a good way as any to find an interest in wine... to develop one's taste buds... although as Pasta Lover stated, it often happens that your taste buds will mature faster than the 75 bottles of Pinot in the cellar. Then you are stuck with the same-old-same-old. Not to mention the fact that it is quite easy to find oneself reaching for a bottle (or two) far too regularly... afterall it is right there at hand.

Wine is a lifestyle choice, I compare this phase of one's wine interest as the equivalent to developing an interest in automobiles. Some folks start off with a "beater" because it is cheap, accessible and does the job. Other folks save up a while, do a bit of research and find something a little more main stream as their "starter car"... something they can afford, but it still does the job.

Over time and years of driving, one either is quite happy with purchasing a middle of the road vehicle (LCBO General List), that is manufactured by a recognizable name, is safe and comfortable and gets them where they want to go... or one develops a further interst in cars, does more research and moves up to something less utilitarian and into something that is more "sensual"... sure it still gets one where they want to go but now in more comfort and style (Vintages). And lastly, there are those who take a real interest in cars and are looking for those that are handcrafted with the utmost of detail and amazingly sensual, sporty and compact, miles from utilitarian and gets one where they want to go (0 to 60) efficiently but also with amazing grace and style.... a true connoisseur's vehicle. Something one keeps lovingly in storage and brings out on special occasions to enjoy from time-to-time (LCBO Select Vintages).

Personally I'm done with the "beaters", and the "starter car" is long gone, I now ride around in comfort (no headaches for me), but I also have been known to enjoy a spin in a sportier model... and like all things in life, once one is exposed, then you start wishing if only you could afford that lifestyle all the time. LOL

EDIT - Oh ya, there are two other categories... those who love "working on cars" and who will forever tinker on their own no matter what they can afford (amateur wine makers themselves), and those who are the super rich or in the industry and will forever be driving cars we all dream about (The Coppolas).

2009 Dec 3
I would say that the true connoisseur's wine is the one who crushes the grapes and has it fermenting for several years before bottling it. I know several people who make wine this way and it is truly fantastic and will easily stand up against any wine you can take off the shelf at the LCBO.

I'll repeat that you can make absolutely fantastic wine at home. But you won't get there with the lion's share of the kits that are out there. But you may get something very enjoyable with some of the high-end ones (which probably were not even available when you were making wine F&T)

Though that having been said - world class beer is far easier to make at home than world class wine. Or I should say quicker to make since making beer is slightly more involved than making wine. As the tradeoff for the extra work, though, you get to drink it a lot sooner :-)

2009 Dec 3
Zym - I hear you, but I disagree when it comes to wine (don't know enough about Beer or Homebrewing to comment on the latter).

"...will easily stand up against any wine you can take off the shelf at the LCBO."

Wine is both and art and a science... with my wine / car analogy... just because one can purchase a Porsche kit, doesn't mean one is going to in the end wind up with a Porsche. A lot more goes into a Porsche than just the parts... a lot more goes into wine than just the grapes, no matter how great those grapes are to start with. There is a reason that worldclass winemakers (and car designers / engineers) are so sought after in their respective fields.

2009 Dec 3
Homemade wine is likely to be *perceived* as being worse than it is for the same reason that people rate wines more highly if they are told they cost a lot. Enjoyment of wine is a personal thing and there is an awful lot of B.S. in the world of wine appreciation.

That said, my $28 for 30 bottles Costco Shiraz kit has all the flavour intricacy of a grape juice with vodka after 2 days of cellaring. It would make a refreshing Sangria. I'll give you an update after a few months... ;-)

I'm now looking for a decent white kit so I can stop buying the cheapest bottle I can find for cooking. Other than a Cave Springs Riesling that Momomoto brought to a wine-tasting early last year, I haven't found any whites to be worth drinking by the glass. Maybe I just don't try them enough.

On a topical note, here's a fun little article subtitled "Why a $40 bottle is not better than a $10 bottle": www.chow.com/stories/10743

2009 Dec 3
"here is a reason that worldclass winemakers (and car designers / engineers) are so sought after in their respective fields. "

Yes, that reason is "marketing"

:-)

2009 Dec 3
Fresh Foodie - Good points... and I agree, there is a lot of conflicting info in the wine world... and as you say a lot of BS. And certainly wine is very subjective (just like any other type of food). So what one person likes will not necessarily have anything to do with cost of the wine.

And any wine lover (or critic) worth their salt will tell you that it is easy to find a decent wine at $ 50, the trick is to find just as great a wine with the same complexity at $ 15 (so an inexpensive car that handles like that Porsche Carrera).

When it comes to Wine Kits, all I am saying is in my experience they don't hold up... and I find that a lot people go this route who have young palettes, or are looking to save money. All fair reasons, but usually not those of someone who has an extensive wine drinking background (with a developed palette).

2009 Dec 3
How long ago was it that you made wine F&T?

20 years ago, for example, it was pretty much all concentrated kits.

Nowadays there is a plethora of kits that have never been concetrated - this makes a pretty significant difference. The same is true for beer kits in fact - in the last 10 years there are unconcentrated kits available that will easily pass for the highest quality stuff that any of my friends make (and is therefore far beyond most of the shlock from Sleeman, Labatt and Molson)

There are still an awful lot of people making the crappy concentrated stuff though, because it is a lot cheaper.

Now you have me wanting to make wine :-)

2009 Dec 5
I think it boils down to what your expectations from wine are. If wine is just another beverage for you, and you tend to find a few you like, and buy them over and over again, then you're a good candidate for home winemaking. On the other hand, if you're more into wine appreciation, exploring the nuances, comparing the characteristics, finding the perfect match for a given dish, and all that, then you're much less likely to be satisfied with your homemade efforts. I'm firmly in the latter camp, and I seriously doubt that I could make wine that I'd be happy with. True, I've had some wine from an amateur winemaker that was truly impressive, but he went to great lengths to achieve that end, including annual trips to Niagara to get high quality grapes, doing his own crush, buying oak barrels, and so on.

There's another reason I don't try to roll my own: I like lots of variety in wine. I have about 220 bottles in my cellar, but no more than half a dozen of any given wine. Though it's always nice to go back to a wine you know and love (like comfort food), I really enjoy trying new ones. There's a sense of anticipation and excitement in opening something you've never tried before... and then in savouring it and deciding how you feel about it in comparison with others you've had. Even if it were much better than the average homemade plonk, having a large quantity of the same wine just doesn't do it for me. But that's just me...

2009 Dec 6
BDM - LOL, looks like it isn't just you... your last paragraph entirely sums up where I am at as well... that and your opening statement, "...it boils down to what your expectations from wine are... and, if wine is just another beverage for you". I couldn't agree more. Well put.

In the case of "The Man" and myself, it is now moving beyond just a hobby and into something even a bit more serious. We dedicate a lot of time and money now to its pursuit and our enjoyment (including trips to wine country).

LOL, and at about 200+ bottles, I would say our ongoing "collections" seem to be comparable.

2011 Mar 15
Fresh Foodie I just remembered you starting this thread some time ago since you were looking into home winemaking. Did you take the plunge? Do you have any success stories, challenges, or other winemaking adventures you could share with us?...

2011 Mar 15
This is going to look like a bit of a mess, but here are the kits I've done so far:

* Manufacturer, Series, Product, Pitched, Bottled, Price, Volume, Notes
* Argentia Ridge, Château Private Selection, Classic Shiraz, Nov 2009, Dec 2009, $29, 7 L, No adjustments (oak chips)
* RJ Spagnols, Vino Del Vida World Tour, Riesling, Dec 2009, Jan 2010, $56, 9 L, No adjustments
* Wine Kitz, Sommelier Reserve, Riesling, Dec 2009, Mar 2010, $145, 18 L, No adjustments
* Argentia Ridge, Château Private Selection, Classic Shiraz, Jan 2010, Feb 2010, $29, 7 L, Oak chips PLUS elderberries, banana, vanilla bean
* RJ Spagnols, Cru Select RQ, Trio do Vinho Tinto, Apr 2010, Jun 2010, $115, 16 L, No adjustments (dried cab skins, oak chips, oak spiral)
* Argentia Ridge, Château Private Selection, Merlot, Apr 2010, May 2010, $29, 7L, Frozen cab + pinot skins from John
* Argentia Ridge, Château Private Selection, Merlot, , , $29, 7L
* Wine Kitz, Sommelier Reserve, Amarone, Sep 2010, , $156, 18L, No adjustments (dried grapes, oak blend, French oak)
* RJ Spagnols, Cru Select RQ, Spain TORO, Dec 2010, , $98, 16 L, No adjustments

So far, I've been very happy with my elderberry/banana/vanilla enhanced cheapo Shiraz, both Rieslings (the cheaper one is a great white wine, and the expensive one is very full-flavoured and dessert like), and the Merlot with lots of skins added. The Trio do Vinho Tinto is maturing in the bottle and was starting to get good last time I tried it. The Amarone and TORO batches are bulk aging in carboys now. I'll be bottling them before too long.

All in all, a fantastic hobby, and one that causes me to no longer ever have any beer in the house. :-)

2012 Oct 21
I have to contradict everyone who says a wine kit is poor quality and taste. My friend made a Australian Shiraz from Winekitz and entered it into a wine competition not telling anyone that it was a kit. He came in Second! Just goes to show that these kits can now fool the so called connoisseurs and experts. I also made a Merlot from Costco, I thought it was a little weak, but was asked by many who had tried it, if they could take a bottle home. Don't under estimate kits, they are getting more popular and better tasting.