Freshly Roasted Coffee Experiment [Science]

2009 Jan 15
OK, at this point I'm thinking that taking it to the forums is a good idea.

I'm up for an experiment if some others are. I have a computer-controlled roaster so should be able to produce some decent beans with as many variables as possible removed. The only thing I can't do is host.

At very least I'm thinking :
- roast a bean on a given schedule, then freeze it whole
- roast a bean on same schedule, grind it, freeze it
- X time later roast same bean on same schedule, leave it whole
- next day roast same bean on same schedule, grind it and all others
- have taste test on this same day

Anyone in?
Anyone care to refine the experiment? Better idea?

2009 Jan 15
I'm in, and could host.

I feel as though the roast bean, grind, leave it out, freeze it would also be a not bad variable to demonstrate those of us who are completely disorganized could be an option...?

I'd be really interested in seeing how other beans from Starbucks/Bridgehead/Planet Coffee/Illy/ and so on compare to your beans as freshly roasted as possible, since as I mentioned in the review section, I know they all have very different roast/grind/brew times and it would demonstrate the extremes.

The one variable that would have to remain the same would be the brew method, since different grinds effect the taste. My thinking is that bodums would probably create the most noticeable difference.

So, that's my two cents. Anyone else?


2009 Jan 15
What value of X should we use?
1 week?
2 weeks?
3 weeks?

We could do all of these, of course. But it becomes more complex, the more beans you have.

The only problem I see with including other beans from other companies is that to have a valid comparison it has to be the same cultivar/variety of bean, roasted on the same schedule. You never find out both of those variables from commercial operations. The name that they give to the product you buy is always either one of those (variety:e.g. Columbian, Yirgacheff) or the other (roast schedule: e.g. French)

2009 Jan 15
My head is spinning already but I'd be up for this! I know my favourite roast is a city roast (dark, but not black like french roast). I'm beginning to think my favourite bean is Bolivian (the Yungas from Equator especially, but the Colonial Caranavi from Green Beanery is cheaper in quantity and is still very good). Experimenting with storage techniques and flavour longevity is most appealing to me at this point!

As LWB said, a Bodum will likely give tasters the most information. I use the Aeropress or regular drip at home but acknowledge the fact that French press is the method of choice amongst coffee connoisseurs.

I agree with Zym that -- at least for the experiment he is suggesting -- the source and variety of green beans should be held constant. Comparing home-roasted against coffeehouse beans is another (interesting) experiment altogether. I have to say though, that the depth of flavour you get from beans that are roasted a day or two before brewing is quite striking! I was pleasantly shocked the first time I tried roasting. :-)

2009 Jan 15
This sounds verrrrrrrrrry interesting...

2009 Jan 15
I definitely think that for this experiment, holding the beans to a standard is important. If we could somehow get green beans from a coffee shop that roasts their own and compare it with their roasted of the same bean from a few months back (I'd simply be curious because I know Starbucks for example, roasts and grinds months in advance).

As for a value of x...I think 2 weeks would be probably appropriate? Maybe 3? 1 week sounds like there may not be enough of a difference, based upon what I've read, and 2-3 weeks sounds like a reasonable amount of freshness, especially if it is sealed and not ground. But, that's just my opinion.

I'm with Fresh Foodie for a city roast, the only thing is in my experience that I find the darker the roast, the less distinct the bean flavour is. I'm not sure if others find the same thing? Discuss.

2009 Jan 16
Medium (city) or full roast (espresso) are my preference, but for more distinct flavour notes, a light or medium roast would be best for the test.

2009 Jan 16
So when would we do it?

I don't really want to be juicing myself up on coffee in the evening so I'm thinking breakfast or brunch on Sat or Sun.

As for the test, here's what I"m thinking now. All assuming same bean, same roast. I'm thinking X = 2 weeks since that's what one of the roasters mentioned in their ad

- roast a triple batch 2 weeks in advance
- grind 2/3, leave 1/3 whole, freeze the whole and 1/2 the ground
- vacuum seal 1/2 the ground and leave at room temp
- day before roast more and grind it the day of

Do a single blind test where I'm the only one who knows which one is which. Double blind would be better and I think would could actually manage that so why not.

The only big question I have is do we try them all at once to compare back and forth, or do we do 1 then the next then the next?


2009 Jan 16
Sounds pretty interesting to me as well. I have to admit though that I'm more of a drinker, and less of a roaster. I could bring cookies to cleanse the palate?

2009 Jan 16
I'm actually assuming I'll be the only one roasting Pete. Though I guess I may ask for some $$$ from everyone to reimburse me. Shouldn't be too much per head though.

2009 Jan 16
No prob w.r.t. $

Also, I forget if this was already mentioned, excuse me if it was, but we should use a single origin batch of beans (not a blend) as a control measure (so as not to introduce any bias, if one batch gets a higher ratio of inferior/superior/rancid/fresh bean to another).

2009 Jan 16
Definitely morning, rather than evening thing. I'm okay with Saturdays and Sunadys. No worries about money, just let us know how much.

Chimichimi is probably right regarding single-origin. Though in my experience most green beans purchased are single origin.

The only thing that I'm wondering about is provision of coffee brewing materials. Bodums would work best. But I also imagine that it'd be wise to do the tasting one followed by another, so as to minimize bias. But, if we only have say, one or two Bodum(s), that will increase the amount of time that the coffee sits, n'est pas?

I also like the idea of getting pastries/breakfast things involved, if only because I'm a social drinker of coffee.

2009 Jan 16
I am definitely not a social drinker of coffee - I am a rabid consumer of it, bordering on coffee psychomania!!! Recent studies report that drinking coffee regularly can help deter the onset of Alzheimer's, so y'know, it's all about disease prevention... yeeeeah... that's right!

2009 Jan 16
It will be one of these :

Brazilian Santos 2/3 SC 17/18 SS FC 20 lb. (Bra-1718-20)
Colombian Supremo SC 17/18 30 lb. (Col-Su2-30)

I'm thinking the latter since it's such a common bean. And I've got 30 lbs of it at the moment :-)

My 50 lb order was $200 shipped, so that's $4 per lb. Depending on turnout that will work out to maybe a buck or two each, so not very expensive at all.

I could also make some of my awesome cinnamon buns for it :-)

2009 Jan 16
I like how this is shaping up. Pastries, coffee, foodies. What do people think about having more than one Bodum (french press)on the go?

2009 Jan 16
I'm not much of a coffee drinker... but I have to say following this scenario will be interesting and educational. Something that I can no doubt share with my many friends who are loyal to the bean. Thanks Zym for taking this on.


2009 Jan 16
I think Mousseline should supply us with some pastries... *ahem* Mousse, where are you?!?

2009 Jan 17
I think Equator's guideline of about five days is correct from my experience. I also go by the 'foam test'. When you pour just-under-boiling water on freshly roasted grounds, you'll get a lot of foaming. As the days go by the amount of foam decreases and I find the taste follows pretty much the same pattern.

2009 Jan 17
I like to pan roast the beans I get at The MidEast Grocery on St Laurant.

The beans are $10.99/kilo and I was told they are from Arabia.

Was looking into using a popcorn popper to roast but I like the heat control I have over the pan and I don't need another 'specialized' kitchen gaget taking up space.

I'm happier than Jaun Valdez and his mule over the results I get.

My success is based on a patient steady roast with stir-stir-stiring all the way to the second 'crack', when the oils appear on the surface of the beans. This is followed by a rapid cooling using a pre-chilled jelly-roll pan. The roasted beans are then left over night uncovered, to de-gasify.

I like a medium to medium dark roast. The so-called 'City Roast'. (And I used to like black-as-coal roasts).

See here for an outline of the process.

www.fastpulsetrading.co.za

and here is a video similar to my process.



A pan batch lasts me a week with a little noticeable degredation in day 6 or 7.

PS: Oh yes, The smoke from roasting ... Even with my Venmar on high the house still ends up smelling absolutely wonderful !!

2009 Jan 18
Inkling wrote: I think Equator's guideline of about five days is correct from my experience. I also go by the 'foam test'. When you pour just-under-boiling water on freshly roasted grounds, you'll get a lot of foaming. As the days go by the amount of foam decreases and I find the taste follows pretty much the same pattern.

****

I find that really fascinating, given that I was using two week old ground coffee this morning for breakfast and it definitely gave me a good amount of foam. But "lots of foam" is subjective of course.

I'm also all up for baked goods, whether they come from Mousseline or not.

2009 Jan 27
Sorry kids...it seems I'm late to this party. When is this happening? Did it already happen? I was really busy last weekend, and sometimes when I look at Ottawa Foodies I'm too lazy to log in :)
Next time just message me on Facebook Chimi!

So, people....details?

2009 Jan 27
Nope, hasn't happened yet. Stay tuned to this thread ...

2009 Jun 10
FYI my roaster is still not being consistent since I've moved it out to the shed and the temperatures are fluctuating so much. But soon I expect things to stabilize at which point we can finally do this.