ottawa foodies

Hi again. Well, it's been around a year and a half since I'm here, but I still have no idea if there's something to be called Canadian cuisine. Does that really exist? What would you include in that - generally and personally? I can't think of anything but poutine and maple sugar :) plus lots of great beef and steaks but it's less purely Canadian - more North American. By the time I return home I should have a clear impression on that issue, so I would appreciate any thoughts here.

PS Is the course at Cordon Blue called International Flavours-Canada really worth the money they ask (used to be around 160$ for both demonstrationa and practical... no they've left just the demonstration for 40$)? Has anyone tried that? www.cordonbleu.edu

Given Canada's young history as a country (1867 wasn't all that long ago), it would be surprising if we had a distinct cuisine of our own. What we do have is a mish-mash of indigenous ingredients (e.g. maple syrup and salmon) with the original English and French settlers' cooking techniques. Given France's superior reputation on the global food scene, it's not a surprise that our most classic dishes come from the French voyageurs -- pea soup comes to mind.

In addition to our young age as a country, two other limiting factors come into play. Canada is extremely large, meaning that the "typical" ingredients vary from region to region. And it has a relatively small population, meaning it would take longer for unique foods to be developed and then take enough of a foothold to be labeled as "traditional."

The beautiful salmon feasted on by first nations people is a purely west coast phenomenon. Maple syrup comes from Quebec and eastern Ontario. Scallops come from Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Most countries aren't anywhere near large or diverse enough to have such extremes of cuisine, and those that are have been around much longer. We border on three oceans and have several geographic sub-zones. To find a single food that everyone would agree is uniquely Canadian seems an impossible request. Maybe after another 500 years... :-)

I think what defines a cuisine as indigenous is how the ingredients available are used by the local population and dishes quickly become part of the zeitgeist of that culture. When I taught at Algonquin several years ago I said (to considerable uproar) taht I felt Quebec had the only true cuisine in Canada. Many dishes have evolved and show regional subleties in la belle provence. Tourtiere, crettons, feve au lards etc. are all examples that have evolved and are not only part of the diet of the province but indeed have become embedded in the cultural psyche of Quebec. (listen to la bottine souriante's version of la tourtiere) Since then though what has risen in Canada is a desire to embrace local/indigenous Canadian ingredients, look at places like Sooke Harbour House and Michael Staedtlander. (and me) I have had many interesting discussions involving what defines a national cusisine. Lets face it the much vaunted cuisines of France and Italy have many ingredients and techniques borrowed from other cultures they bumped into over their history. So what defines Canadian cusine ? I think it is the same things that define us as a society, the blending of many cultures in technique, pride in high quality local ingredients and a desire not to be the younger sibling to our southern brother but to stand on our own on the world stage. All of which we are doing.
Afetr all we are what we eat, right ? (or in this case cook)

Salmon is purely west coast? Tell that to the Mic Mac :-)

For me the "Canadian" dishes are actually imports - most of them I guess are Slavic because that's most of my roots. But there are a also a few Scottish ones in there as well. Meat Pie; Turkey Soup with carrots, cabbage, rutabaga, parsnips and so forth; "jiggs dinner"; cabbage rolls and so on.

I make "Pictou County Oat Cakes" but am not really sure what distinguishes them from other oat cakes.

Speaking of meat pie, there is Quebec tourtier (sp?) - which is quite different from my own meat pie.

I have to second most of what Bruce-the-chef mentioned but would also like to add venison to the mix, as a general rule venison is not easily available to most Europeans, we have the land mass to support the venison we consume and it's a fairly recent thing for that meat to have fallen from the dinner plate in many households.
Before supermarkets and large urban centers it was quite commonplace for Canadians to eat venison, there are still a large amount of hunters (specially in Quebec to further support Bruce's theory)and I for one hope to see a revival in the consumption of this choice product that is in effect quite sustainable with today's game management techniques.

I'd probably say the following are more what I identify with as Canadian food: bannock, fried/smoked pickerel, fried panfish, moose roast/stew, bison stew, venison steak/sausage, wild rice & wild mushrooms (casserole is delish), wild blueberry pie, hot smoked salmon, etc...

I agree with others here too in that part of it is doing something 'uniquely Canadian' with recipes from elsewhere. One thing I like to do is replace sugar in just about any recipe with maple syrup. Baked beans with maple syrup. Pumpkin or squash pie with maple syrup. That sort of thing.

And of course there are the wild blueberries as chimi mentions!

I'll also turn this around on you muscovite - what do you consider to be a typical Russian dish? Because I would bet that just about any thing you name is also considered Polish and/or Ukrainian, so probably more Slavic than distinctly Russian.

Zymurgist, sure salmon exist on the East coast but *beautiful* salmon do not. ;-) Yeah, I know it's in the eye of the be-taster... but to me the gorgeous orange flesh of Pacific salmon is a completely different food from the Atlantic product.

To further zymurgist's question to muscovite. Do people in the far eastern corners of Russia eat any of the potentially unique Russian foods as people in the far west? Local wild blueberries and maple syrup don't exist in the western half of Canada and of course Sockeye salmon don't exist in the East. Our country is just too damn big for us to agree on a representative cuisine!

Ahem, if you look at the scientific classifications of both, the east coast variety is more Salmon than the west coast. In fact, so is lake trout :-)

EDIT:

Salmonidae Oncorhynchus (west coast)
Salmonidae Salmo salar (east coast)

I hereby rest my case that Atlantic Salmon are better ;-)

Re: salmon, hilarious! I've always found the pacific/atlantic salmons to be incomparable. So many "atlantic" salmon that you find in the store nowadays are farmed, which are pretty close to inedible for me. I actually prefer arctic char to atlantic salmon if available. If I can find wild caught atlantic salmon, then I go for that since it's completely different than the farmed stuff in terms of texture and fattiness. All of that to say, I love salmon! Try it with my miso marinade on the wiki entry!

Agreed re: arctic char. Had it recently and it was just fantastic. Firm flesh, great flavour, and beautiful as well. I was pretty proud of it as a Canadian product. I'd love to be able to source it fresh more often here in Ottawa.

I am also a believer that Quebecois cuisine is by far the most distinctive regional cuisine in Canada from my experience...other regions also have marvelous produce, but the traditional Quebec dishes seem the most original to me. Although I have heard that there are some pretty wild and interesting dishes served on the East coast...anyone ever try "flipper pie"?

It is amazing how many common foods which we at times associate with European cuisine have their roots in the New World (although typically they came from Mesoamerica): turkey, peppers, tomatoes, blueberries, corn, chocolate, potatoes, wild rice...

Let me add another vote for arctic char! Although we don't usually buy fish at Loblaws, they've had some very nice whole arctic char lately, at a good price. I used to be a devotee of atlantic salmon, but reading Bottomfeeder by Taras Grescoe completely turned me off that product. Now we choose wild-caught pacific salmon, or, more likely, arctic char, instead.

Tracinho, I've always been fascinated by New World foods too. It's hard to imagine Italian food without tomatoes or South and East Asian cuisine without hot peppers!

Maybe we can invent some uniquely Canadian dishes for Moscovite. General Tso's Turkey anybody? Meerkat (that's uh... moose stuffed with deer stuffed with cat and/or muskrat)! The Limeburger -- that's Limburger cheese with fresh lime in a burger bun. The Canadian Political Pasta Bake -- tricolor rotini (orange, green, and independent) mixed with BQ sauce, a conservative portion of meat, and a liberal topping of cheese. The meat and the cheese don't work too well together but once you've ordered it there's no sending it back. ;-)

And another great Canadian dish worth mentioning in this thread... the Nanaimo Bar!

FF~ I was just about to say nanaimo bars! I see your nanaimo bar and raise you butter tarts.

Ha ha i like the political pasta. Perhaps Fresh Foodie could do some moonlighting over at Parliament Pub, last time I was there one of the pastas ordered at the table was.....lacking to say the least.

Nanaimo bars is an excellent call. That is true Canadiana! What about Salmon grilled with a marinade or glaze of maple syrup and Canadian Club Whiskey?

Oh BTW:

We have many, many world class and distinctive beers...I think it is one of our brightest culinary contributions to the world...I personally am a big Creemore Springs, Steamwhistle and Mill Street fan.

Great topic!

Well hunting & trapping are so much a part of our history... we've covered Venison (and the deer family - Deer, Moose, Caribou, Elk) but we haven't really talked about the others... Bear, Muskrat, Beaver, etc. Of course as a modern Canadian these turn my sensibilities right off... but a lot of Native Canadians still eat these. They often refer to their food as "country food".

I don't think that Canadian Cuisine is so much derived from distinct items (species) although we certainly have a few, I think what sets our cuisine apart from others is "the method" by which we prepare our dishes.

As we discussed earlier, this is similar to the ways that Eastern European Cuisine adapted from country to country. So although all the coutries may make something like Beef Stroganoff, they prepare it differently based on their local ingredients or customs.

I believe this is true of Canadian Cuisine. We have adapted things from around the world to our environment. For example, virtually the whole world makes wine, and we have excellent wines that we make in a traditional style... but we also have ICE WINE, and that is what sets us apart, we have a found a distinctly Canadian way to utilize the conditions we live with (weather & climate) to make things differently. And being a frequent traveller to Niagara, let me tell you ICE WINE is a product that us Canucks enjoy, but it is nothing in comparison to the tourists who flock from all over the world to get their hands on a precious couple of ounces.

In keeping with the upcoming winter season and if you are looking for a truly local specialty there is always the beavertail!

Hey F&T: "... but we also have ICE WINE, and that is what sets us apart... "

Ice wine or should I say Eiswein is NOT distinctly Canadian ! Sorry.

See this history of Eiswein in the WIKI.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_wine

Canada may be famous for ice wine but it's also made in Germany, Australia, Austria, Croatia, Czech Republic, France, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden and United States.

Captain C - True enough (and I knew that), I guess I was referring to it in the same way that Salmon was spoke about here earlier, it isn't distinctly a Canadian product, but again we are known by it... Kind of how I was referring to "method" vs species.

In fact there are a whole lot of items that we consider Canadian that also can be found in other countries cultures: Maple Syrup, Baked Beans, Meat Pies, etc. It's all in how we work with them, and them into our cuisine and culture that makes them "Canadian Cuisine".

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

On the other end of the foodie spectrum, Canada used to be the unique source for things like Coffee Crisp and Mr Big bars. But these seem to have recently been made available elsewhere, like in the USA and Australia.

Hear Hear !! Fresh Foodie !

Canada used to be a source of some kick-ass chocolate bars.

I remember the world atlas in my grade six class room was supplied by Neilson Confectionary, complete with pictures of Crispy Crunch and Jersey Milk around the edge.

On a trip to the US when I was about 9ish I discovered Babe Ruth and Butter Finger bars .... What a big disappointment these were. I'd take a Crispy Crunch over a Butter Finger anyday !! The Crispy Crunch chocolate tasted like chocolate and the center tasted like real peanut butter. The Butter Finger had Allan-like waxy chocolate with a very bland center.

Neilson was bought by Cadbury of England in 1996. The Cadbury products from England are not too bad. Even better than the Cadbury Canada stuff. I had some of their Curly Wurly's recently. Great frozen and smashed on the end of a counter while still in the package.

The Brits have mininum cocoa standards to label anything 'chocolate' and they wouldn't stand for inferior chocolate anyway.

CHOCOLATE... now this must be a Canadian Food
;-)

Actually I remember there were a lot of types of candy that we as Canadians had in the 60s and 70s that wasn't readily available in the USA (and visa versa, many types that weren't here... like Tootsie Rolls, that were always advertised on tv with the Saturday Morning Cartoons. I remember after I finally tried one, I couldn't figure what all the fuss was about). One of my all time favourite chocolate bars is Cadbury's Crunchie. (I just read on Wikipedia that it was originally made by Fry's --- ya know the cocoa people). That sponge toffee was heaven to me as a kid. I remember that I spent a good deal of one summer vacationing in the USA, and well I just couldn't find a chocolate bar that came close to my AWOL beloved Crunchie. Like CaptainC I tried so many varieties, but nothing came close. To this day, I'm not a big fan of American candy bars (resentment perhaps?). Besides the fact that I craved that dreamy sponge toffee, our preferred milk chocolate tasted so different from the dark chocolate that so many American chocolate bars used. And I agree with CaptainC I think it really is sort of waxy... not much milk and a whole lot of crisco IMO. Ick!

I have great memories about Canadian chocolate in general... my Dad used to buy my mom a box of Ganong Chocolates for Valentines (they were considered the expensive ones vs the Pot of Gold etc.), Lowney Cherries at Christmas and Laura Secord Eggs for Easter.

Hey F & T:

Funny you should mention Pot of Gold and Ganong Chocolates.

Pot of Gold was made by Moirs choclate in Halifax, while the Ganong Chocolates came from St. Stephen, New Brunswick. ( I do remember the sweet smell in the air while passing through St. Stephen on the way to Bangor, Maine... along the 'Airline'.)

www.ganong.com/index.html

The Ganong people where the first to put chocolates in a heart shaped box and invented the modern day chocolate bar at the turn of the century with their 'Pal-O-Mine' fudge centered, choclate covered bar.

My fav product from Ganong's is the famous 'Chicken Bones'. A hande made, (they do have an inferior machine made version) pink cinnimon flavoured candy with a nice chocolate center. See pic.

CaptainC - I was so happy you posted this... I knew there was another Canadian Company that made chocolates but I couldn't remember their name, just recalled that they began with "M". Moirs was indeed the one I was thinking of.

I did some googling, and another name came forward in the boxed chocolates category... Black Magic. As well I discovered some manufacturers' names, many of which now are long gone... Fry, Cadbury, Lowney, Rowntree, Nestle... many of which have been folded into other larger companies, although some of them are used for a product or two because of brand association. Pot of Gold evidently is now part of the Hershey family.

And yes I am familiar with "Chicken Bones"... I remember that cinnamony taste from my childhood... gramma used to have them at her house around Christmas.

I was too lazy to read the entire thread, but did anyone mention pancakes with Maple syrop?

Or am I missing the point? lol

Well, thanks to everyone for the ideas, comments and a nice discussion. I feel I could be misunderstood, but I didn’t mean to offend anyone saying “you don’t have cuisine”, I just wanted some of your thoughts to trigger the development of my own perception of the local culinary history.

Zymurgist – Despite of the fact that there are indeed some similarities in the cuisines of Slavic countries, I would say that still Russian cuisine has many really authentic dishes (huge variety of appetizers and soups, both hot and cold, drinks, many types of bakery on the base of leavened dough… just what comes to my mind first and I’m not naming the dishes on purpose since their names are hard to translate and wouldn’t make things easier in general) and what is more interesting – cooking techniques and principles that are really traditional for Russians (fermenting, salting, soaking in water, curing, etc). It’s sad to say that partly the old cuisine has been forgotten and substituted by something new.

Fresh Foodie – your question is natural. Russia and Canada are similar in terms of width and comparing far eastern realities to the western part could make sense. The point is that what is now called “traditional/old Russian cuisine” has it’s roots in the north-western part of modern Russia, where the history of the country actually started (this cuisine began its development in IX-X centuries, was influenced by the orthodox religion and probably reached its peak in XV-XVI – not saying it wasn’t developing any more afterwards but the basis was formed then). The exploration of the Far East started around XVII-XVIII centuries and was performed by envoys from the center, who also brought the above mentioned culinary traditions there (and they settled down pretty well). I wouldn’t say that the range of food, people normally eat, seriously differs now in Moscow and Vladivostok (center of the Far East) – they do have more fish and caviar, but you have the same in Moscow, it’s just more expensive. What is considered to be traditional Russian cuisine – is the same here and there, the thing is that if it is popular, but that is another story :). There are some aboriginal cuisines in the Far East but that’s again a different story.

I hope I did answer your questions at least partly.
Kind regards!