ottawa foodies

I noticed a less than favorable review of Kinki on this site. The owner of Kinki and Mambo Marisol Simoes threatened the admisistrator of Restaurantthing.com with legal action because her restaurant was getting negative reviews. The owner proceeded to hack restaurantthing with hundrededs of false reviews that favored her restaurants. When the reviews were removed more legal action was threatened. As a result Kinki and Mambo have been removed from Restaurantthing.com. Hopefully this type of situation will not repeat itself here. I cannot comment on the food at Kinki but Mambo was average at best.

Meh.

That sort of thing has already happened with Jazzoo (ottawafoodies.com/vendor/1497). Fresh Foodie's solution was to remove the reviews but leave the details about the vendor (ie location, phone number). I suspect the same thing would happen with Mambo/Kinki.

See forum here: ottawafoodies.com

I hope this kind of post is sufficient to deter the Ottawa Foodies user base from frequenting businesses like this that take criticism like ostriches with their head in the sand. I know I won't be going to Kinki, Mambo, or Jazz'oo now unless major changes in their management take place.

One of the Japanese chef left Kinki. It can affect the quality of the food.

As a Japanese, I hear so many negative,nasty things about Japanese restaurants in Ottawa. However, I think most of the slanders are usually based on jealousy. Vendor vs vendor, or some sick minded Japanese person cannot stand other's success. It is really ugry. When a new Japanese restaurant was opened in Ottawa, some ppl in Japanese community made realy ugry negative comments about the restaurant.

I heard some Japanese restaurants use their staff like slave and do not pay them...some ex-servers from a restaurant complained and asked some advice at the Japanese community site.
But I don't mention any names here, because it is useless.
Justice and karma will catch up someday. Meantime, I use my tongue to judge whether the restaurant(food) is good or bad.

re: legal threats, my brother is a lawyer and has assured me that any legal threats from restaurant owners against this site would be groundless and could be safely ignored. I've also heard this from other lawyers who have accounts here.

Anyway, I prefer not to have to get my back up, so I'm likely to disable comments at a restaurant's request. I rationalize it this way: a restaurant whose business is doing well doesn't care too much about what people are saying on a site like this; but any restaurant that bothers to take action against us is likely already struggling and may be out of business soon. By disabling comments, I'm preventing you all from wasting your time reviewing an establishment that will not exist much longer! :-)

Fresh Foodie, God willing your last statement is true.

I am shocked, perhaps naive, that restaurateurs (or more appropriately called restaurant owners in this case) would stoop to threaten legal action. That is mighty small and really puts them in a sub-league of their own.

Not ironically, my foodie opinions of the three vendors mentioned in this post are all very deserving of their negative reviews.

One of the things that greatly perturbs me about the Ottawa food scene is how so many restaurants get by on great location and great decor but completely drop the ball where it matters: food and service. A big boo to them!

Mambo's and Kinki's used to be quite good. I have not been to Kinki's in some time to comment, but the last time I went to Mambo's I found alot of the reason I didn't like it was because of the menu changes.

They removed some awesome dishes! I find many of them are now bland - and that is a result of the ingredients in some of them.

I would return just to see if they change the menu as I haven't had a really bad experience there.

However, it won't be anytime soon since I have so many others to visit LOL!

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents, as an owner I find it some of the negative comments somewhat unnecessary & sometimes they are simply vindictive.
For an example on Restaurant thing there is a post about a bad experience that a table had & how horrible the brunch was at petit bill's, problem being we weren’t open for brunch on the date that the poster stated as a matter of fact we hadn’t offered brunch for almost 2 months previous to the date stated & had decided to actually stop brunch completely so it was obvious to us that this was a false review, we contacted restaurant thing & they ignored our request to have the post removed, it’s still there BTW…
On this site, there is a very nasty review from our first 2 weeks in operation that is WAY over the top that I took with a grain of salt, it bothered me that they didn’t mention the things we did for them (Free bottle of Wine, offer of desserts & or special coffees after dinner) it was our first real busy night & we flopped but to trash us as badly as they did was simply bad form…
What’s even more frustrating is reading a negative review about us & on at least one occasion knowing the customer had given us a completely different reaction, if there’s a problem I would prefer to hear it rather than read it, I can’t fix a problem when a patron shakes my hand telling me how wonderful everything was & than go home & write a post about how horrendous everything was…
We are in the business of hospitality; we want you to enjoy yourself. YOU are the most important person on the planet in our little restaurant (or an establishment), if you don’t feel that way than we’re not doing our job & should be told in house & not on an anonymous website…
Thank You
Terry

This thread got me thinking about how useful I find certain travel sites where hotel owners are allowed/encouraged to openly respond to poor reviews. False or vindictive reviews aside, every customer has different expectations about their stay which colour his/her review, and these expectations may differ from my own. The hotel owner's response to a poor review often provides a strong signal of the experience they would like to provide. I'm sure the same is true for restaurants.

This is my long-winded way of saying that my preference would be to see restaurant owners respond to a poor review rather than demand that comments be shut down. A classy response to a nitpicky customer can go a long way in persuading the rest of us.

Terry - not condoning scathing reviews, but a lot of patrons aren't keen on being so confrontational. i for one haven't had a restaurant experience so poor that i felt the need to air my grievances to the owner. i would probably never do that, especially in the company of others when dining out. i would just go back and give the establishment another shot, or not return altogether. that's me though.

DD - agreed. i love it when restauranteurs respond to reviews. it has to be tactful, though. Steve Beckta does a really good job of it. Norm from Juniper called a patron out on RestaurantThing a few years ago IIRC. pretty entertaining.

I wouldn't want to criticize the critics, of course everyone is welcome to their opinion..

I can accept constructive reviews, sometimes another set of eyes can open yours.

All my comment was about was that if you're willing to write your criticisms on the world wide web, you should tell the people to their face, good or bad...

I like Ottawa Foodies,most of the people I've encountered on this site aren't just fly by nighters, these people are frequent diners & I appreciate their comments.

I am proud to say that most of our reviews on Ottawa Foodies are positive & the few that are negative most are willing to try us again, at least I hope.

I know that you can't please everyone but it doesn't mean you can't try..

Terry

Terry - Let me echo the comments that have been made in this topic by Monty and many times previously on OF... Members love to hear from Owners, we love knowing that they read the comments here and take them into consideration. It means that the site is working, and the food experience has come full-circle.

The one time I can ever think of when an Owner wasn`t welcomed with open arms, was a couple of years ago when an Owner came on to OF and had a TOTAL meltdown about some comments... going so far as to get into a heated exchange of posts with an OF Member. Needless to say, that in the end just confirmed that there indeed were issues with service at that establishment (which is what the Member had stated in their Review in the first place). Don`t think that the tactic worked for the Vendor, and guessing that it turned off a lot of us from ever gracing his doors.

As for the Reviews for Petit Bill`s Bistro - Petit Bill's Bistro ... I don`t think you should worry too much about what is here in print dating back to your early days in business (April 2007). Most folks when reading Reviews don`t typically look back thru pages & pages of entries. And as I did take a look, I would have to say that most OF Readers are smart enough to realize that those comments are from almost 3 years ago... AND there are certainly "growing pains" in the beginning of any Restaurant. PLUS, the Reviewers that you are referring to are (were) classified as NEWBIES, and clearly they are not regular contributors to this Website. And any comments made by longtime Members, also have a pattern of follow-up visits stating that things had greatly improved. Not to mention the fact that there are a huge amount of ongoing newer Reviews that consistently rave about your establishment.

Anyways, I am happy knowing that you visit OF... it tells me that you are involved in the process of connecting food to client full-circle, and not just when they are in your Restaurant. And I am even more excited when you post here (on whatever topic) as it shows that you are willing to listen, learn and share, and participate in the foodie world that is Ottawa. And that makes you both a valued OF Member in addition to a valued member of the Ottawa Food Scene... and for me that is the ultimate foodie experience.

PS... As a side note, I checked out your OF Member Page, you have not filled out your Profile Blurb... ya really should do that, it tells us all a bit about you, BUT it is also an acceptable way to promote your business (FREE Advertising).

Thank you for your comments, I have discussed issues with reviewers on Ottawa Foodies but in private...

I don't think twice about the early reviews, we are a completely different restaurant from when we opened. I just mentioned them as examples although at the time they were written I was quite upset.

I love what I do, I have the greatest job in the world....

We want you & everyone to understand that We respect your opinions, our menu is a direct result of what our patrons wanted of us.You as the customer are the only reason we're in business. We'd be morons if we didn't listen to you.

Terry
PS-I'll work on my profile

Terry - BTW, because of your honest interaction here on OF, I've now made a note to self to make a greater effort to come out and enjoy Petit Bill's Bistro in 2010... something I obviously have put off far to long.

Great idea Food&Think I'm going to do the same.

Lobster poutine!!!

Indeed! I second F&T's comments: I had no idea that Terry was of Petit Bill's. While this certainly doesn't change my opinion of the restaurant (we adore it, really), it's nice to know these sorts of things!

I look forward to seeing everyone, please ask for me so we can meet you face to face!

Terry

I shall join the club, and I will be pleased to visit Petit Bill's and ask for Terry if he has a moment so that I might meet face to face. At least should I be in outside of the normal dinner rush.

I ate at Mambo when it first opened. We also tried it on two occasions this summer. The negative reviews on RT were not far off in my opinion and it is a shame they were removed because of threats made by the owner. OF has a choice in my opinion. Hush the public opinion when it is negative in relation to Mambo or face the same bully tactics that were applied at RT.

I agree that Steve Beckta is very good when it comes to providing online feedback to negative reviews. Other vendors should follow his lead.

I think it's better to respond in private to reviews both positive & negative or in a forum such as this, Mr. Beckta runs 2 of the finest establishments in this city & I applaud him for listening & responding to his (very few) critics. Just because some of us deal in different ways doesn't mean that the comments mean any less...

I have never been to Mambo or Kinki & I certainly don't agree with the 'legal action BS', it's simply sour grapes, do something about the food instead of the review...

I have always found Ottawa Foodies to be a bit more refined than restaurant thing but I do suggest that before anyone actually reviews a place that they try it at least 3 times before any judgement, everybody slips once & a while even some of the finest restaurants...

Terry

I agree Terry . Mambo advertised on Restauranthing that they had new management and made changes after my first visit. I then went back a second time and nothing had changed it was even worse the second time. After reading a marriott of bad reviews and management and owners making all sorts of accusations I don't think a third visit in the works. It's kind of sad that the owner thinks so many people can be wrong but I guss you can't reason with some people.

My only feedback regarding Mr. Beckta's participation on this site, is that I would love to know from those who have had a negative experience with his restuarant (or any others) if it was recitfied and how. It's kind of like a cliffhanger to read in the Buzz section, "oooh, Steve Beckta wants to make amends". Well, I assume it's not smoke and mirrors, but I'm kind of curious as to the resolution.

I also agree with Terry that everyone slips up from time to time. It's disappointing when they do, but nonetheless.

Terry - I agree, 3 visits would be a good yardstick... (and seems to be a Professional Food Critics norm) but that said, I think that here on OF most of us comment based on a recent visit, be it our first or third... and I think that most of the Regulars are fair enough in their statements to say when something was a tad off the mark, and to state that it might have been an off-night, growing pains, whatever.

Most of the harshest statements come from the "one-off hit & run posters" and that if anyone is half-with-it they can figure out that a NEWBIE's comments don't necessarily hold as much weight as someone who has honed their metal here on OF (at least that is the way we'd like the ranking system to work).

Fortunately, OF does attract a lot of true Food & Wine lovers along with knowledgeable professionals (like yourself) be they Owners, Chefs, Wait Staff, Food Writers, Food TV People, Caterers, Bakers, etc. So thankfully, when someone posts a comment that is way out of line, there is a lot of knowledgeable folks to speak up and challenge the post. It isn't a perfect system (not sure if one could even exist), but it does seem to work.

Then again, there is always the old tried and true method of evaluating comments made on sites such as these on the Internet... throw out the best and the worst... and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. In fact, I personally think that is true of any critic's opinion... it is just one opinion... and many a time I have disagreed with those who are regarded highly in the profession. Food is a subjective thing, and the experience can indeed vary from visit to visit, or even on how it is perceived between two people sitting at the same table on the same evening. So I take all that is said with a grain of salt.

I certainly agree about the one hit wonders, maybe there should be a minimum time spent in OF & have the one timers deleted....

I find the going to an establishment one time only reviews hold very little weight, even from frequent reviewers. One done on us that I found unfair & I did contact the reviewer but I quickly realised that their knowledge of the industry is very limited & I thanked them for their input. Going out for dinner doesn't equate to knowing all the ins & outs of the service industry..

Sometimes a simple misunderstanding can snowball a night into a horror show (I've witnessed this a hundred times in my career).

I think it's time for me to get off this subject before I've offended someone, again we appreciate any & all comments, even if you're talking about us in an less than positive manner, you're still talking about us!

Thanks everyone & I hope I see you soon!
Terry

I have visited Mambo many times... I realy like their service and drinks... also their Happy hour for apetizers ( half price)...

Hey terry I guess you are right but it's a three hit wonder.That didn't take long.

Ken, to be fair I really can't say yay or nay on Mambo, I have never eaten there but if they're still running such a big operation they must have a loyal following that does enjoy their spot...

Take Care
Terry

I agree in principle that it would be ideal to review only after three visits, but to be honest, I suspect that most people on this site don't have the financial resources to make that feasible and do have an interest in going to a variety of different restaurants.

My main reasons for going out for dinner are to satisfy a craving, socialize with my friends, and/or enjoy an evening out with my husband. I often consult this site when we're deciding where to go, but I'm unlikely to be able to convince my husband to go to a place three times close enough together for me to make a well rounded judgment about it and remember details of my previous visits. That is especially true if we've hated the food somewhere or had a miserable experience. I usually call the restaurant and let them know if there was a major problem, but it's doubtful that I would be interested in going back two or three times on my own dime before reviewing here.

Mers - I am with you... I'd love to have the ability to visit a place 3 times prior to writing a Review, like a Professional Critic does... but for the most part my attention span is a lot smaller than that and so is my "Expense Account".

I think that OF meets a requirement in that we all act as the eyes, ears and tastebuds for others... like I said I take Reviews with a "grain of salt" but still I can figure out better what interests me and my senses, based on the words and experiences of others (and photos are always a Bonus). A lot easier than I can just knowing about a new spot with a catchy name and an ad somewhere. This is the benefit of our instant technology society... I can learn about a new place months sooner than I could have in the past.

Terry - to be fair that is an issue... a Restaurant has to get one on the first visit enough so they want to come back sometime in the future... it is a tough job, but part of the aspect of running a Restaurant today... sort of like a first date... ya gotta make an impression in some way... maybe not show all that you have to offer, but ya gotta make a mark.

Mind ya, just like dating in the 21st Century, that impression can sometimes be made on the Internet... your interaction here, and your ability to be open, sharing and honest comes thru in your posts. Enough so that I am willing for a closer look in person... as you eluded to these days the Internet is an important tool... in the Restaurant Biz any Owner who is aware of that, and googling to see what is being said about his endeavour is ahead of the curve overall. Which gives them something they can use to their advantage (one that Kinki, Mambo and Jazz'oo never understood, sadly).

apparently she is up to new tricks.........

cnews.canoe.ca

and she was found guilty today

cnews.canoe.ca