Oz of wine per glass in restaurants [General]

2009 Mar 2
I am putting this out there because I know there are a lot of people on Ottawa Foodies who work/have worked in restaurants and another large amount who love wine and therefore have lots of experience ordering it by the glass in restaurants.

Can someone tell me what the industry standard is for the number of oz of wine restaurants normally pour into a glass of wine that they are selling by the glass?

I also love wine and eat out a lot and have ordered many, many wines by the glass (and otherwise) in restaurants which leads to my issue.

On Saturday night we ate dinner at the Heart and Crown on Preston. This is not my usual type of restaurant choice but we were going to be a group of 6 and were looking for a place where we could eat and then stay on to hear the band and possibly dance.

Normally I consider the venue before I order wine. I will order it at Beckta or Allium or Aroma Meze (as examples) but if we go out to a pub I will order beer since generally you won't get a good wine in a pub (although this is changing).

This location of H&C is marketed as being relatively more upscale than the other location(s?), and their menu, decor and wine list reflect this.

I ordered a glass of Henry of Pelham Baco Noir V.Q.A. Glass - $7.50, Bottle - $31.50. The server brought it and walked away. I looked down and thought: "where is the rest of this glass of wine?" It was a standard size and shape wine glass (from my experience) and the glass was much less than half full. Like, really noticeably less than half. The other guests at the table also thought I had been short-changed. Our server came back and I mentioned that I thought I gotten a miss-pour since it looked like I had already drank half the glass. He said that it was 6oz and that is what it should look like. I said ok.....but did not touch the wine since I was trying to figure out what to do.

Coincidentally, the manager came over to our table a few minutes later to bring us our food (I guess they were short staffed?) and I took the opportunity to mention that it seemed that for $7.50, I should be getting a glass that did not look like someone had already drank half of it (it came out more polite than that - promise). He said they measured against another glass at the bar that had precisely 6 oz in it so he took my glass away, came back and said that mine was exactly the same. What could I do? So I just mentioned that perhaps 6 oz was a little chintzy for the price they were charging or maybe they needed to get a different glass that didn't make it seem so lacking.......(again very polite). He didn't seem to agree. Oh well... I tried - and did not order another glass of wine.

If I had been at a restaurant where I was doing a tasting menu with wine, I would have found that amount of wine (or even less) completely acceptable because you aren't going to drink a full glass of wine with each course but this was ridiculous.

Can I also mention that I went to this location before Christmas for a party and I ordered 3 glasses of this same Baco Noir and there was definitely more in my glass than that or I would have never ordered a second OR third one and I had no issue with the amount that night.

Any thoughts?

2009 Mar 2
I think the "standard serving of alcohol" is one 12oz beer bottle, one 1.5oz short of liquor, or one 5-6oz glass of wine. A quick Google search confirms this. I'm not a huge wine drinker but would expect around half a glass to be sufficient when I order at a restaurant?

There are plenty of wine aficionados here who surely can shed some light on this...

2009 Mar 2
6 oz pour is the norm for wine. Can be deceiving depending on the size of the glass. Having lots of room in the glass is required for swirling the wine to allow the flavors to really come out. For those that are use to the small glasses usually found at Italian restaurants around this city it can be confusing. Personally I hate the small glasses but am also finding that some restaurants take it a bit far and use the most obtuse glasses which I almost feel embarrassed to use. A cheap, inappropriate wine glass is a major pet peeve of mine!

2009 Mar 2
The Ontario government's Smart Server program has 5oz as the standard serving for wine, and that's what most bars and restaurants serve. That way, too, a manager knows they get 5 glasses from a bottle (with one ounce left for sediment, spillage, etc) - it makes it easy to cost out the wine.

2009 Mar 2
Yes, 5oz seems to be becoming the standard these days. However, in this case, a 6oz pour was claimed. ksw, assuming you have "standard" sized wine glasses at home that are similar to those used by this establishment, why not measure out 6oz of water from a measuring cup into one, and see what it looks like? I tried this myself, with my standard, everyday wine glasses, and 6oz is certainly well over half full - the level is well above the widest part of the tulip-shaped glass. Unless their glass was considerably larger than average, I suspect you were getting gypped. $7.50 a glass is already a pretty stiff price for a wine that retails for $13.75 a bottle. My rule of thumb: if I'm paying more than half the retail price for a glass of wine, I'm getting diddled. I think this is why many restaurants prefer to offer wines that aren't available at the LCBO - makes it hard to make that comparison.

It's annoying to get short-changed, but maybe not as annoying as the places that serve wine in tiny glasses (like the ones they give away at large tasting events), filled to the brim, to try and hoodwink you into thinking you're getting a good deal. Fortunately, this practice seems to be becoming less common. Markups of over 100% are increasingly common, though.

2009 Mar 2
A similar observation, but regarding beer. Has anyone noticed that a 'pint glass' at Grace O'Malley's, has for a while seemed 'smaller' than a pint glass elsewhere (such as Heart & Crown )? I'm pretty tempted to bring a measuring cup in sometime.

2009 Mar 2
Pete it seems like alot of establishments are using American pint glasses, 16oz...so you might not be crazy...

2009 Mar 2
KSW - As the other's have noted the "standard pour" in Ontario is regarded as 5 oz... that said, there are more and more establishments that are offering 6 oz or even a 9 oz pour.

I can speak to this with some confidence... I recently had wine at the Heart & Crown on Preston Heart and Crown... and I noticed that they had at least 2 sizes of glasses that they were using.

We sat at the bar, I ordered a glass of white wine, and it came in an appropriate white wine glass (albeit one much larger than most establishments). Like the other wine lovers here, I appreciate anywhere that doesn't use those standard 1980 glasses (where 6 oz pour would absolutely fill the glass). The days of filling glasses to the rim, are over... and doing so clearly indicates a lack of wine knowledge on behalf of the establishment.

I also observed that the H&C have a larger glass that they utilize for red wines... it has an more open bowl, which is important for enjoying a full bodied red, such as your baco noir. And yes, when the 6 oz is poured in that glass, it would not necessarily come to half (or the shoulder as it is known). As a wine lover, though I much prefer this over the alternative, a p!ssy little glass, and have therefore been impressed with Pubs and Restaurants who are moving away from the long established norm. I for one, enjoy establishments who are becoming more wine knowledgeable, both in their service and in their lists.

I don't for a minute believe you were gyped... in fact I would see no reason why a Manager would intentionally mislead you over this after you pointed it out to him... when you could have either accompanied him to the bar to compare the measure (yes there is indeed the two glasses with sample pours at the bar... as I have seen them) or he could have just as easily added another once or two just to keep you happy.

As one who drinks wine regularly, I have to say I think you've been treated fairly.

BEER

When it comes to beer, I have to agree that in that industry there is indeed a very clear standard, a 20 oz glass, which we here call a Pint. Unfortunately, I agree recently there has been a trend to move to either a smaller (non standard) glass, or to pour a glass with a whole lot of head... in either case the customer IMO isn't getting the full pour they paid for (it says 20 oz on the Menu). To counter balance this however, I've seen an increase in the Bars & Restaurants that now feature glasses (usually with their Logo) that also indicate a pour line on them. At least then the customer knows, what he can expect with each and every pour... when it comes to beer this is definitely a good idea.


2009 Mar 2
Pete, might I suggest a graduated cylinder? It is highly accurate and it slips inconspicuously into the pocket of your trench coat.

You can buy them from a company in Waterloo: www.indigo.com

Does anyone know where to buy chemistry glassware locally? At around $12, the 1000mL Erlenmeyer flask would make a stylish (and lead-free) wine decanter: www.indigo.com

2009 Mar 3
Two local supplies I know of.

I'm pretty sure I bought ( back in the late 80's) glassware and other laboratory supplies from:

canadawide.ca/

Fisher Scientific would NOT sell to an individual person back then ... not even for cash on the barrel head ... business/gov't/educational accounts only. (And I didn't even look like a hippie or a biker.)

www.fishersci.ca/Default.aspx


2009 Mar 3
CC... did you ask if you could set up a 'cash business account'? I've bought from electrical wholesalers that normally want you 'have a business', and truthfully most of their business uses credit accounts with 15 or 30 day payment, but you can often just request a 'cash' account. When they ask for the name of your business... it's just your name (or CC Enterprises ;-))

2009 Mar 3
P-i-O ... Tried that. Still no. Said it was 'Policy'.

I do remember asking at, I think at Canada Wide, about various purchases to individulas like my self. They said there was a 'watch list' that if some one purchased from, they would notify the RCMP. This included things like refluxers and certain chemicals. Even when those chemcals were not 'Scheduled'.

I can understand why. See picture A refluxer is on the table, just above the white pail.

What I bought was for beer and wine making and did not buy anything suspicious. So they did not ID me. Just cash on the barrel.


2009 Mar 3
F&T, since you're familiar with the glasses used at the H&C, I'll defer to your judgement that they offered an honest 6oz pour of red wine. That larger glass is not one that I would describe as "standard", but I'm happy to see them offered by more establishments these days (despite the risk that some customers may feel short-changed).

So, what do folks think about pricing? I tend to feel a little ripped off when the markup goes above 100%, and that seems to happen quite a lot. If the restaurant is doing 6oz pours, then they can get four glasses from a standard 750 ml bottle, with a fair bit left over (nice little tipple for the staff, or useful for offering sample tastes to customers). So, if they pay $20 for the bottle, I figure they shouldn't charge more than $10 for that glass. And if they only do 5oz pours, then they can get 5 glasses per bottle, and shouldn't charge more than $8/glass. (Question: do restaurants pay the same price per bottle, taxes included, as we consumers do? Discuss.) I'm convinced that many places favour consignment wines not available at the LCBO mainly because it makes it difficult to for customers to figure out the markup, and hence the "rip-off factor". Maybe I'm just cheap, but the amount of "value added" in serving up a glass of wine is pretty minimal, and it shouldn't command a huge markup.

2009 Mar 4
BDM - You are cheap! LOL
;-)

Ok with all humour aside, like you I find there is a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to Wine, Wine Service and Wine Pricing in the Restaurant industry. "The Man" and I talk about this often, it would be nice if things were different, but then on the otherhand, things have improved greatly over the last 5 years even. We credit part of this with the popularity of wine in the Ottawa area, and the interest in the Sommelier Program at Algonquin College... it's a circle, people find interest in wine, because the restaurants are more educated, the restaurants are doing better because they are hiring sommelier grads, sommelier grads come from those who are interested in wine, and those interested in wine are driving the marketplace. All of these are good things.

When it comes to pricing, "The Man" and I kind of consider it part of going out... we know that most places these days have a mark-up at 2 or 2.5 times the price of a retail bottle (ie $ 20 becomes $ 40 to $ 50). And although it seems that this is a rip-off if you think about just it in the context of the wine... but if you think about it as part of the whole restaurant experience, I don't think this is anything new... alcohol has always been where restaurants make a huge dollar. I think part of the reason is because the market will bear the price (say on average $ 5 to $ 10 per glass... depending on the wine & venue). And unlike food, there is very little "spoilage" or other factors that effect the alcohol side of the biz... so for a restaurant it is one spot they can pretty well guarantee a good financial return (gain) without much of a risk.

As for the "consignment wines" I don't think that it is necessarily intentional as to mislead the customer, by keeping them "in the dark". I see these wines as offering on general a better quality of wine at a lower price than many available at the LCBO (ok, I relise that the LCBO has like a zillion wines) but as someone who enjoys finding new sources of wine, I frequently discover these are on offer at some of the wine bars around town... a great way to try something new in a small quantity (by the glass) and then it is great to find them available either by the bottle or glass in a restaurant.

Overall, I would have to say, I am fairly satisfied with the direction that local restaurants are taking when it comes to wine. More and more places are expanding their lists (finally getting away from cheap French, Italian or Wolf Blass) and offering a variety of varietals from a wider list of sources... and that is exciting... especially when it has a trickeling down effect and is now becoming more apparent in Pubs, Family Restaurants, etc. (Like the H&C which is where this topic started).

Where I think things could improve are:

Wine Service - Many places are finally beginning to improve their glassware... hopefully this trend will continue. Still come across Restaurants where the staff has not been shown how to properly present or serve wine... this one frustrates the heck out of "The Man" and I... everything from presentation, to opening, to the sample taste, to the pouring ritual, to wine chilling (when necessary). It excites me though when a place gets it right, and more so if they offer to decant a big red for me at the table. What I would like to see is more places adapt a custom for single-pours... I really appreciate it when the glass is not pre-poured but rather the amount (be it advertised as 5, 6 or 9 ounces, comes in a sidecar). This practice is very classy... and helps to eliminate the issue that KSW posted here originally.

Wine Lists - I've noticed there is a significant "gap" in most Restaurant's Wine Lists... a fair number of wines available under $ 35 and then a BIG LEAP up to the $ 50 plus wines. I would like to see more offerings in the mid-range. I would also like to see more variety in wine lists when it comes to Canadian Wines. Too often I see the same-old-same-old, and I know there is just so many great wines out there waiting to be discovered.

2009 Mar 4
Here i am stepping out of the shadows to be counted among those (like BDM?) who find the mark-up on wine rather precious.

I'd also ask if that mark-up perhaps (probably?) also serves as an impediment to the development of a more generalized wine culture / appreciation that F&T describes?

And yes, i too like the "sidecar" (new jargon for me) option.

2009 Mar 4
Okay, I'm cheap. And a cynic, too. :-)

I do agree that wine service has generally improved in the region in recent years. And most places aren't really out of line on their wine prices... but some are pushing the envelope a little far, methinks!

I also enjoy discovering new wines, but it's far more satisfying when I know I can actually purchase some for my own use if I like them. Yes, I know that, in principle, I could track down the agent for a consignment wine and order a case, but it's not very likely I'd go to that trouble and expense. I'd prefer that the restaurant gives me insight into the marriage of food and wine, with wines that I can easily obtain, in small quantities.

The other gripe I have is that I feel trapped into ordering wine by the glass, even though there are often more interesting offerings by the bottle. I often see couples polishing off a bottle (or more) at a restaurant, but that's not my thing. My wife and I rarely finish a bottle of wine in one sitting at home, so why would we do it in a restaurant, when we have to jump in the car afterwards? Sometimes there are a few half-bottles available, but the selection is very limited. A few years ago, the Ontario government passed legislation that allows restaurant to permit patrons to Bring Your Own Wine and/or Take the Rest Home. I can understand why very few have embraced the BYOW idea (that nifty profit margin), but why don't they at least allow TTHR? I believe all that's required is an approved capping device for the bottles. Seems to me that this would pay for itself in short order, as more people would order bottles instead of glasses if they knew they could stop short of consuming the whole bottle, and take the rest with them. This would, I think, have a positive effect on the amount of drinking before driving. I don't see this service offered anywhere where I dine - why not?

2009 Mar 4
Sidecar ?

And I thought a Sidecar was a cocktail.

I remember ... I sucked back a few in 1979 !!


2009 Mar 6
Thanks everyone for your responses.

I only have the big bowl red wine glasses at home (so 2002!!!) and need to update to the new sleeker look so was not able to do a re-creation at home. Plus I usually pour myself about 15oz at a time - haha!
Like I said - eat out ALL the time and have never felt like I was getting a chintzy glass of wine. I will pay very close attention next time to see what my glass of wine looks like.

I think I will stay away from chain restaurants altogether because they really nickel and dime you for everything and have completely lost the art of customer service.

MMF - I hear you on the wine glass issue - I have turned into the ultimate snob in that I can't drink out of a thick rimmed wine glass - they have to be thin rimmed - aren't I spoiled? :)

F&T - the manager did explain exactly what you said about the open bowl and letting the wine breathe and room to swirl (what wine??) and that they were trying to treat the wines in the proper way, and I thought that was great of them for a pub!
However, my table mates said the same thing as you - he could have thrown in an extra ounce just to make me happy - but again - making the customer happy seems to be landing at the bottom of the list these days.....it was just "this is 6oz" and that was it....

Like I said, I didn't order any more wine and I won't go back - so that's what his chain restaurant mentality got him - one less customer.

2009 Mar 7
I notice that no one has commented on my call for more establishments to embrace the "Take the Rest Home" concept. That's okay - I often find myself alone out in left field. :-) I could just let this go, but I'm curious - is this not an issue for folks reading this because you're satisfied with ordering wine by the glass when there's just two of you dining, or are you okay with consuming a whole bottle (or leaving part of it behind)? And, if there are any restauranteurs reading this, I'd really like to hear your take on TTRH, and why (almost) nobody is doing it. Seems to me it would be a responsible thing for a restaurant to do, to discourage over-imbibing before driving. We often take excess food home in a "doggie bag"... why not the wine too?

2009 Mar 7
I've always instructed my staff to pour 5 ounces
no need to open a new bottle to top off a glass and have the new bottle sit for gawd knows how many days

bdm, I believe TTRH is not allowed in Ontario
at least the last time I checked
if the resto has a BYOB permit they also have to have a bottle re-sealer which runs a hefty grand
all this the last time I checked with SmartServe and the LCBO

as for thick rimmed or thin:
I prefer thin at home but understand why restos are going with a more sturdier design as of last summer when I had staff breaking on the average of 6 glasses a day @ 20$ a piece for nice Reidel

on a personal note I will not order wine from anywhere that fills the glass to the rim or at least let me swirl it
one establishment in the Glebe serves up a heafty 7 ounces in a tiny goblet that barely contains it all

now, you will all excuse me while I go enjoy my viogmier in my oversized glass

2009 Mar 7
Ah, Viognier... a man after my own heart. :-) Let's hear it, also, for Gruner Veltliner!

I thought TTRH was available to restaurants in Ontario independent of BYOW, but I could be wrong on that... I'll check on that, and report back.

And, BTW, kudos to Beckta for being about the only local high-end restaurant (please correct me if I'm wrong) to allow BYOW, albeit on a limited basis.

2009 Mar 7
Take the Rest Home does exist in Ontario. From what I've read it applies to wine that you buy at the restaurant as well as BYOW.

2009 Mar 7
Okay, a bit more info... first, a small correction: the name of the program is Take Home the Rest, or THTR. Here is an excerpt from a FAQ I found on the Ontario Alcohol & Gaming Commission website: (www.agco.on.ca)

Q1. Does a licensed premise have to make application to offer customers THTR?
A1. No. All establishments with a valid liquor sales licence that sell wine may choose to offer THTR.

Q2. Why aren’t liquor licensees required to apply for an endorsement to their licence in order to offer THTR?
A2. THTR is intended to give Ontarians another option for drinking responsibly, and any licensed establishment is permitted to offer this service. The only additional requirement for licensees would be to ensure the bottle is properly resealed. There would be no need for additional licensing requirements relating to THTR.

Q3. How does THTR work?
A3. THTR allows patrons to remove an opened, unfinished bottle of wine that they either brought with them or purchased at the restaurant. Controls must be in place to ensure the bottle is properly resealed. Wine made by a licensee under a wine pub endorsement cannot be resealed for THTR.

Q4. What is the procedure for resealing a partially consumed bottle of table wine?
A4. Liquor sales licensees offering THTR must seal an unfinished bottle of wine with a cork that is flush with the top of the bottle.

So, there you have it - any establishment with a liquor licence can offer the THTR service, and they don't need a special endorsement on their licence. All they need is a device for inserting a cork into the bottle. A grand? I think not! Ask any home winemaker - I think you can pick one up for less than $100. The cost is really a pittance.

So why do so few restaurants offer THTR? For that matter, why don't they all offer it?

2009 Mar 7
With these two statements :

"The only additional requirement for licensees would be to ensure the bottle is properly resealed."

and

"Liquor sales licensees offering THTR must seal an unfinished bottle of wine with a cork that is flush with the top of the bottle."

I see no mention of a (heat shrink) plastic wrap required to cover the cork.

Therefore ... All that is needed is a corker like the one in the picture (approx $25).

store.defalcowines.com

A new cork (approx $0.12) or possibly the existing cork (?) could be used.

store.defalcowines.com

PS: Notice I chose to feature a local supplier for the solution.
Think globally ... promote locally !


2009 Mar 8
ink and bdm, I stand corrected
looks like the headserver and I need some brushing up on the new rules

2009 Mar 8
Ottawa Foodies, the ball is in your court! If you visit a resto in Ontario and have the opportunity to speak to someone in management, why not ask them about THTR? When they get that blank look on their faces, explain how easy (and cheap!) it would be for them to offer this service. It should be a no-brainer! All it would take is for a few patrons to order a bottle instead of a couple of glasses, and the restaurant's investment is paid for. After that, it's all gravy. It's a win-win. Am I getting repetitive here?

I'm sure there's quite a few folks in the business who troll these waters, but stay below the radar, and seldom or never post anything. Please give THTR serious consideration! And there must be other ways to spread the word. Paging Ron Eade...

2009 Mar 8
bdm
while I am not the policy maker on front of the house decisions, I will pass it on to the owner of my resto
but sadly we do not offer wine by the bottle
then again I am not extremely proud of the wine list
in two years, I've manage to only add two wines and only have one domestic presence
unfortunately, She does not want to go consignment wines and limits us to wines under 14$ :((
although the two I did manage to get on, are bang for the buck wines, I'd rather overhaul it
meh...Her taste in wine is crap lol

2009 Mar 8
So what do restaurants do with the wine left behind in ordered bottles?

2009 Mar 8
in some of the restos I've worked, it went towards cooking
or wine by the glass
or drank later by staff

resto owners are not all saints or angels
lol

2009 Mar 8
So I can understand why THTR isn't promoted so much.
The quality of after hours parties would go way down. :)

2009 Mar 8
lol
well personally, I for one never hang out after work
find it much more relaxing to enjoy a glass of wine at home (malbec, viognier, rossanne, petite sirah, cab sauv)

or mix up a batch of martinis and nurse it til after the 11 oclock news is over (RIP Achannel news)

2009 Mar 9
BDM - Ok I spent a fair bit of the weekend thinking thru this THTR issue, and "The Man" and I both agree it is the way to go if a Restaurant wants to be on the leading edge of what is happening in wine. There are two thoughts on buying wine in a restaurant... some people want to just have a glass (mostly because of the driving issue) while others prefer to order a bottle, it really in our mind doesn't come down to cost (ie per glass) for us it is more about the quality of the wine. I prefer to order a bottle, because I know that I am getting wine that hasn't been sitting around uncared for.

Wine Service in Ottawa, should step up their game but yet again. If you are going to sell wine by the glass, then you should seriously store that open bottle properly... that means investing in a wine vacu-pump and stoppers... all of about $ 15 for a starter set (additional stoppers just a few dollars each).

When it comes to the THTR Program, I think what has happened is a lack of education. I believe that most Ontario Restaurants don't even know this option exists. And if they have heard of it, they believe it is part of the BYOW Program which they probably don't participate in (because both legislation changes were introduced at the same time).

We first ran into a THTR Program a couple of years ago in Cape Cod. We had a lovely dinner at a restaurant, but had a fair distance to drive to get back to our hotel. Wisely, we opted to not drink any more... when to our astonishment the Server offered to "bag up" our wine for us. We were amazed. Like mentioned earlier, we are offered doggie bags for food, why not for wine?

In MASS. they have an even more user-friendly program than here in Ontario. They put the cork back in the bottle, but the "seal" is actually the bag. They utilize the types of bags seen in the Courier biz. Once sealed, they cannot be opened without ripping. The bag is see thru, and they put a copy of your bill in the bag with the bottle. The date is highlighted. The law states you must transport the bottle directly to your destination.

Recorking a bottle here in Ontario, I believe is a huge impediment to the THTR Program... you have to either re-use the cork, or put in a new cork (especially if the bottle is a twist-top), own a corker, teach people how to use said corker, store corks, etc. On the otherhand the MASS. solution is painless...

No corks, no corker, no hassles... easy, cheap and convenient bags.

Back to the vacu-stoppers for a second... why are these not being utilized? It makes no sense to leave bottles open for long periods of time. Some places even pre-open wine... I have seen restaurants where they have released the corks on the next couple of bottles (say of their housewine) just for convenience... but who says when they will pour that wine... Lunch, Dinner, Tomorrow? As frequent travellers to Niagara, the wineries faithfully re-stop all their opened bottles between pours... and geez they are pouring tastings all day long. BUT, then again they are in the WINE BUSINESS they know how to get the most out of their product.

Think of the savings alone... I can't undstand why more restaurants haven't figured this out. A good chance, that you'd not have wine coming back as "off"... at $ 7 to $ 10 a glass. Cheap investment, for a bunch of stoppers.

Overall it could be advantageous to the Restaurants if they adopted both of these ideas... I believe they could improve their wine revenue by offering more consistent quality by the glass, and probably in both cases would see customers elevate their wine purchases to a better quality of wine (ie more money spent by the customer).

2009 Mar 9
F&T - as always, a thoughtful response, and you make many good points. Wine service in the region has generally improved in recent years, but there is still plenty of room for improvement.

As far as THTR is concerned, my main motivation behind promoting it is to have greater choice available to me. For example, the last time we dined at one of our favorite local restaurants, we ordered food that I thought would be best complemented by a Pinot Noir. Predictably, we scanned the list of wines by the glass and found zero Pinots, though there were several available by the bottle. We had to settle for something else. If they supported THTR there, we would've opted for the more expensive choice, and got the wine we really wanted. Their loss (and ours). The other reason I would prefer the bottle is the one you mention - wines served by the glass are quite often oxidized, because they were improperly stored, or simply kept too long after being opened. Sure, they can be sent back, but that often disrupts what is otherwise a pleasant meal, and it's particularly a nuisance in a marginal situation in which you're unsure whether to bother making a fuss about it. BTW, I've been poured plenty of oxidized wine at wineries, too. Perhaps it's due to our propensity for visiting off-the-beaten-track places at quiet times, when there is slower turnover on opened bottles, but I've also found that some of the people staffing tasting rooms aren't very good at recognizing glaring faults in the products they're pouring.

I certainly wouldn't reseal a bottle with the original cork - a clean, unused one is needed. Not a big investment, but as you say, the staff have to know how to operate the device. No big deal, say I. The system used in Mass. sounds sensible, and I see no reason why it could not be applied here.

The big problem with THTR is that the Ontario government has shown no leadership in promoting it. Most people in the restaurant business don't know what's involved (e.g., they think it applies only to BYOW, which they avoid like the plague, for obvious reasons), or what advantages it could bring them, and most consumers don't even know that it exists. I'll do my bit to raise awareness about THTR, but it would be far more effective if a lot of you fellow foodies would do likewise. And I wish more of the pros in the restaurant biz would chime in on this discussion, and give us their views.

2009 Mar 10
I don't sense a great groundswell of support for my THTR campaign, and Ron Eade didn't rise to my bait. Maybe I'm in the wrong place to drum up support - how do I get to Ottawa Winos?

2009 Mar 10
thumbs up from me, bdm, although i thought FF actually mapped the domain for ottawaWinos onto OttawaFoodies?

I just hope i haven't drowned Mr. Eade in a torrent of anti-anti-foi-grass-debate. Please, mr Eade, attend to this cause/thread first. :-)

2009 Mar 10
I was being facetious, of course... I didn't actually check to see if an entity named Ottawa Winos exists. I don't of any forum similar to this one that is dedicated to discussion about wine (local forum, that is, or at least one no broader than Ontario-wide). If such exists, I'd be happy to be enlightened!

2009 Mar 13
BDM - I did a little GOOGLING and came up with this interesting "tid bit" from Smart Serve Ontario - www.smartserve.org

It indeed looks like any Ontario Restaurant can participate in the "Take Home The Rest" Program, and according to these FAQs no special equipment is required. Although, if I was a restaurant owner, I'd certainly invest in a corker.

Interesting also is Point # 3 in regards to Screw Top Wine Bottles...

"If this type of bottle cannot be corked, you must advise the customer that you cannot seal this type of bottle and therefore, they are not able to take home the rest".

Sadly this provides an opportunity for confusion (why can't the Ontario Gov't find the easiest solutions to problems?). Obviously the operative here is the word "IF"... if a Restaurant had a Corker this wouldn't even be an issue.

--- --- ---

As for "The Man" and I, be assured that we will continue to spread the word whenever we get the opportunity... As mentioned before we would like to see more places here in Ottawa step up their game both on the "Stopper" and "THTR" fronts... engaging Restaurant Management in this discussion (and planting the seed) is easy enough to do.


2009 Mar 13
They have had take home the rest in Manitoba for a while. I think it's helped with wine sales in restaurants because the drinking and driving laws are really intense.

I kinda laugh about the question "what does the restaurant do with the leftover wine in the bottle... I have never dined with anyone who hasn't finished their wine (especially knowing the mark up!).

2009 Mar 13
Back on topic.... interestingly, the standard pour at Atelier is 6oz. Doesn't divide evenly in a bottle and at an average of $11 per selection not overly expensive either.

Where does the extra 2oz go?

2009 Mar 14
F&T - That is the same site that I excerpted some points from in a previous posting. I think the issue with screwcaps is that the neck of the bottle may have a slightly larger diameter than a "standard" corked bottle, so an inserted cork may not fit tightly enough. Can't say as I've tried it, though. In any case, it's not a show stopper (forgive the pun!).

I'm glad to hear that you'll go forth and spread the word about THTR. Response has been tepid here, but even if only a few of us bend the ears of local eating establishment proprietors, it may have a positive effect. I hope a few of them of them are reading this thread, and giving it some thought. I think I'll try approaching Rod Phillips, and see if he's willing to do a column about it.

2009 Mar 15
BDM - Rod would be a great conduit for this message in the community... like you, I truly believe that if Restaurants improved upon these two issues - Vacu-Stoppers & THTR that the quality (good for the consumer) and the price of the wine would increase (good for the Restaurant)... not to mention the fact that there would be a lot less wastage. A win-win for everyone.

As a side note... I was at Fratelli's (Barrhaven) - Fratelli recently, and I was impressed with their wine service... they have a great Wine List (including a whole page dedicated to wines UNDER $ 35) and serve all individual pours in sidecars. Very classy. Asked about THTR - and was informed they are "not equipped"... oh well, at least they have started to move in the right direction.

Meanwhile... over at the new D'Arcy McGee's (Kanata) - D'arcy McGee's... I was very disappointed to discover that they are using that "horrid" practice of pre-opening a bunch of bottles... It looked like every red wine on the bar had a "back up" bottle pre-opened. Not sure how much wine they are selling (did notice that the HOUSE was in a 1.5 Litre... also with a back-up pre-opened) but this practice really is off-putting when it comes to the top-end wines available by the glass. It would be great if they somehow got the message (lets hope someone at their establishment reads this Forum).


2009 Mar 20
THTR Update:

I had lunch at the Wellington Gastropub today. They have a better than average selection of wines by the glass, but it still has some conspicuous gaps. There is, for example, a Gruner Veltliner and a Viognier (both quite nice, btw), but no Riesling! What's up with that? A good example of where THTR would come in handy. I had a chat with the manager, and he heard me out, and thanked me for the info about THTR. Perhaps he was just humouring me, but I had the impression that he was genuinely interested, and would give it some serious consideration. Now, if a few more patrons would make a pitch for THTR, it might push them over the tipping point. Once a few prominent places start to offer the service, I think it will get things moving on a larger scale.

Alas, no response from Rod Phillips yet, but it's been less than a week since I sent him my pitch about THTR, and he does travel a lot, so I still have some hope that he'll show some interest.

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2019 Feb 12
Wow.
Wine is getting COMPLICATED.

2019 Feb 12
Oh yes .... I do like a little 2-Methoxyphenothiazine (Levomepromazine) with my scrambled eggs in the morning.

Keeps my psychosis in check .... and gives the eggs a bit of mushroom flavour. Yumm yumm.

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2019 Feb 12
I tend to prefer some C2 H5 OH in my OJ in the morning. It helps me get through the day.

2019 Feb 12
I dunno... I find most places are pretty cheap with the methoxyphenothiazine.


2019 Feb 18
My favourite place uses only half of the methoxyphenothiazine and doubles up on the butyl-biethyl-polytrimanganate. I find that makes all the difference.

2019 Feb 27
Give me a 3oz glass of methanol and I'm fine, so long as the food is good

2019 Feb 28
Surely you mean ethanol and not methanol.

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2019 Mar 3
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