Too Much Salt? [Food/Vendor]
2008 Aug 8
Juniper can be added to that list for me. The soup was overly salty one day, it was sent back to the kitchen, chef tasted it, and what a surprise, they took it off the menu it was so bad! It was handled well by staff, so no slight to them... but still... taste the food before it's sent out.
If food is too heavily seasoned I immediately think the chefs are a bunch of smokers. I don't hesitate to send food back to the kitchen if I find it unpalatable, but I keep in mind that some food is meant to be salty.
If food is too heavily seasoned I immediately think the chefs are a bunch of smokers. I don't hesitate to send food back to the kitchen if I find it unpalatable, but I keep in mind that some food is meant to be salty.
2008 Aug 8
OK, I cannot be the only one who feels this way... forget the salt altogether! I am of a certain age, where most of my peers have given up salt entirely, or use it in very small amounts. I appreciate food when I eat out that is prepared with a variety of herbs, spices, pepper, butter, sauce or au jus. But let me add the salt as I see fit. I still find places that "automatically" add salt to everything... soup, veggies, sauces, etc. The worst offender is soup... I continually come across soups that have been salted in a heavy-handed manner. Thank goodness the salting of veggies is gradually disappearing. I like my veggies cooked so that they are warm all the way thru and still somewhat crisp (never mushy) and topped with pepper, and sometimes butter... even better if they are grilled.
2008 Aug 9
OK- as someone who works in a kitchen, I have a few insights (some relevant to your experience, some probably not even close - just a running stream of thoughts as I read your post lol):
- I grew up using very little to no salt as my dad had cholesterol problems and was on a no-salt diet - it DEFINETLY makes you more sensitive to salt (in a shorter period of time than you might think). When I started cooking school the most frequent comment I got on my food from the instructors was that it was under-salted - like, EVERY time I served I got the SAME comment. Even when it tasted WAY too salty for me, I still got those comments. I learned to adjust my palate to the "right" amount of salt to my instructor's taste - that is, when it tastes WAY WAY too salty to me, it is just right for serving to the teacher. It is obviously subjective as to how much is "enough" salt, however the object of the instruction was to teach you the right amount for the "average" customer. Now that I work in a kitchen, I still salt things more than my personal home-cooking taste.
-Yes, in my experience, about 90% of people who work in kitchen smoke (I am one of few who do not). I had a sous-chef once (a smoker) who LOVED salt, and would dump a s**t-ton into everything I made no matter how salty. I hated it because I felt like he ruined everything I was making by making it way over-salty. I was always suspicious it was due to his smoking, although it may have been his own palate sensitivity; for example, my current chef always dumps sugar in everything because he is extra sensitive to acidity (ex: tomato sauce). As far as I know smokers can taste the basic TASTES just fine (salty, sweet, bitter, sour etc.) but are less able to taste actual FLAVOURS - since salt is a flavour enhancer, I'm curious if maybe they over-salt to try to bring out the flavours they can't taste properly.
-The same chef as mentioned above also has a horrible affection (which I find revolting) for soup-base powders (think oxo cubes in powder form) and believes them to enhance flavour. This is not uncommon - even in "Kitchen Confidential", Anthony Bourdain brags that his culinary school teachers could never figure out how his stocks had "richer flavour" than his peers, never realizing it was due to the oxo cubes he would smuggle into class in his apron. Even when I've made a beautiful soup with real chicken stock, I still sometimes find my chef dumping a few handfuls of chicken soup-base into it to "enhance" it. Soup bases are basically all salt, so any kitchen using them (whether you THINK that the place where you are eating is "that kind" of place or not) may be adding a huge amount of salt to soups and sauces.
- Soups are mainly made in the morning, and sit in a warm soup tureen all day long (kinda like a slow-cooker). Don't worry, with something like soup, slow simmering does not usually negitively affect the product - it can even make it better as the day goes on and the flavours meld HOWEVER there IS a certain amount of evaporation that can occur - that is the H2O in the soup will evaporate and so the soup will start to reduce; as the liquid evaporates, the soup will become saltier (it has the SAME amount of salt as it did at the begining of the day, but LESS soup to distribute it). If there is quite a bit of evaporation throughout the day, the kitchen may have to add some liquid back into the soup (stock, water, cream) to compensate. If the kitchen does not realize they need to do so, or is too slow to realize that it has gotten to that point, you may end up with over-salty soup. The same can be true for sauces - some restaurants keep some or all of thier sauces hot for service in a steam-well, in metal inserts - the same evaporation can occur and result in over-salty sauces as the day/night wears on.
- We had a duck confit pizza on the menu. People would sometimes order it and then complain the duck was too salty. I always kind of rolled my eyes thinking "Well, it's duck CONFIT. It is cured in SALT. What did you expect?" (For the record, I personally did not feel the end product was particularly salty - with the pizza crust, fresh orange sections, sauce, and julliened veg with the duck, the salt of the duck was well balanced). Yes, some things are meant to be salty (however a kitchen should be able to balance those ingredients to create a harmony in the dish - but don't eat only one component of the dish and complain of salt IMO!)
- I was on a medication a few months ago whose side-effects included "may affect sense of taste" (no specifics given). I noticed that I was MUCH more sensitive to salt while on those meds, so I suspect that was due that.
- I grew up using very little to no salt as my dad had cholesterol problems and was on a no-salt diet - it DEFINETLY makes you more sensitive to salt (in a shorter period of time than you might think). When I started cooking school the most frequent comment I got on my food from the instructors was that it was under-salted - like, EVERY time I served I got the SAME comment. Even when it tasted WAY too salty for me, I still got those comments. I learned to adjust my palate to the "right" amount of salt to my instructor's taste - that is, when it tastes WAY WAY too salty to me, it is just right for serving to the teacher. It is obviously subjective as to how much is "enough" salt, however the object of the instruction was to teach you the right amount for the "average" customer. Now that I work in a kitchen, I still salt things more than my personal home-cooking taste.
-Yes, in my experience, about 90% of people who work in kitchen smoke (I am one of few who do not). I had a sous-chef once (a smoker) who LOVED salt, and would dump a s**t-ton into everything I made no matter how salty. I hated it because I felt like he ruined everything I was making by making it way over-salty. I was always suspicious it was due to his smoking, although it may have been his own palate sensitivity; for example, my current chef always dumps sugar in everything because he is extra sensitive to acidity (ex: tomato sauce). As far as I know smokers can taste the basic TASTES just fine (salty, sweet, bitter, sour etc.) but are less able to taste actual FLAVOURS - since salt is a flavour enhancer, I'm curious if maybe they over-salt to try to bring out the flavours they can't taste properly.
-The same chef as mentioned above also has a horrible affection (which I find revolting) for soup-base powders (think oxo cubes in powder form) and believes them to enhance flavour. This is not uncommon - even in "Kitchen Confidential", Anthony Bourdain brags that his culinary school teachers could never figure out how his stocks had "richer flavour" than his peers, never realizing it was due to the oxo cubes he would smuggle into class in his apron. Even when I've made a beautiful soup with real chicken stock, I still sometimes find my chef dumping a few handfuls of chicken soup-base into it to "enhance" it. Soup bases are basically all salt, so any kitchen using them (whether you THINK that the place where you are eating is "that kind" of place or not) may be adding a huge amount of salt to soups and sauces.
- Soups are mainly made in the morning, and sit in a warm soup tureen all day long (kinda like a slow-cooker). Don't worry, with something like soup, slow simmering does not usually negitively affect the product - it can even make it better as the day goes on and the flavours meld HOWEVER there IS a certain amount of evaporation that can occur - that is the H2O in the soup will evaporate and so the soup will start to reduce; as the liquid evaporates, the soup will become saltier (it has the SAME amount of salt as it did at the begining of the day, but LESS soup to distribute it). If there is quite a bit of evaporation throughout the day, the kitchen may have to add some liquid back into the soup (stock, water, cream) to compensate. If the kitchen does not realize they need to do so, or is too slow to realize that it has gotten to that point, you may end up with over-salty soup. The same can be true for sauces - some restaurants keep some or all of thier sauces hot for service in a steam-well, in metal inserts - the same evaporation can occur and result in over-salty sauces as the day/night wears on.
- We had a duck confit pizza on the menu. People would sometimes order it and then complain the duck was too salty. I always kind of rolled my eyes thinking "Well, it's duck CONFIT. It is cured in SALT. What did you expect?" (For the record, I personally did not feel the end product was particularly salty - with the pizza crust, fresh orange sections, sauce, and julliened veg with the duck, the salt of the duck was well balanced). Yes, some things are meant to be salty (however a kitchen should be able to balance those ingredients to create a harmony in the dish - but don't eat only one component of the dish and complain of salt IMO!)
- I was on a medication a few months ago whose side-effects included "may affect sense of taste" (no specifics given). I noticed that I was MUCH more sensitive to salt while on those meds, so I suspect that was due that.
2008 Aug 11
bdm Whew I am not alone! I have been cooking from scratch alot these days and although I have an admitted weakness to one or two processed foods I am trying to wean myself off of them altogether just to avoid the high sodium content of these foods. I am now at the stage when I eat out EVERYTHING tastes salty. I no longer eat at fast food places mostly due to an undercooked hamburger I got at A&W once - it looked revolting! I "think" the salt that I think I taste is mostly due to the fact I have become acustomed to eating home ccoked meals that are low on sodium and garnished with olive oil and herbs. The restaurant I dread the most is Milestones their dishes taste sooo salty to me but it is a favourite lunch spot with my colleagues at work. I just know we are going to end up at that place again and I dread it.
Food is hot I'm with you on the smoking killing the taste buds. I don't smoke either but I dated a smoker a few years ago and whenever I made dinner I had to put a ton of salt (or pepper or basil or whatever other seasoning I was using) in the dish before he could taste it. So I would just serve dinner with no seasonings and left the salt and pepper mills on the table so he could add as much as he wanted. Mind you I like to add more pepper known to man on my dishes and can appreciate that not everyone shares my taste-:)
Food is hot I'm with you on the smoking killing the taste buds. I don't smoke either but I dated a smoker a few years ago and whenever I made dinner I had to put a ton of salt (or pepper or basil or whatever other seasoning I was using) in the dish before he could taste it. So I would just serve dinner with no seasonings and left the salt and pepper mills on the table so he could add as much as he wanted. Mind you I like to add more pepper known to man on my dishes and can appreciate that not everyone shares my taste-:)
2008 Aug 11
Pasta Lover - I hear you on the pepper thingy... I found that after I gave up salt generally (ok, I still like it with corn-on-the-cob), I increased my intake of pepper. I think it is because our tastebuds still yearn for something. The up side though is there doesn't seem to be any health hazards associated with pepper vs sodium.
bdm
For example, our lunch at Domus today... the food was well prepared and presented, and the service was excellent (great wine list, too!), but we both felt that our meals were just too salty. In my case, the heavyhanded salting was mainly on the coating on some freshwater bass (which was otherwise delectable), and my wife had a very salty serving of frittata (even the greens on the side seemed salty). I noticed that a bunch of young bucks were in the kitchen, not John Taylor, so perhaps that was a factor.
We had a similar experience when we dined at Benitz Bistro last year - everything was fine, except that our mains were overly salty.
Granted, we've made a conscious effort to reduce salt usage at home, so we're probably more sensitive to it when we encounter heavyhanded salt use in restaurants now. And I'm not sure it's a trend, since the majority of restaurant meals we've had of late haven't been super-salty.
Any thoughts?