Is it just me.... [General]

2009 Jun 6
Or does the concept of AYCE sushi just seem wrong.

I love sushi, mostly sashimi and to me going for sushi is about textures, flavors and presentation. I have eaten at some excellent sushi restaurants(not in Ottawa) where the fish melts in your mouth. I convinced my mother, who normally hates scallops, to try scallop sashimi which she declared incredible.

I have seen some chefs put forth incredible presentations. Japanese cuisine is known for being a "feast for the eyes."

Generally, the environment is somewhat serene.

AYCE sushi seems a compromise of Japanese culinary ideals.

I guess I am just amazed at the number of AYCE sushi restaurants in Ottawa and find it sad that some people are using these as a benchmark for the sushi\japanese cuisine experience.

2009 Jun 6
hehe, you're not alone, Pan. This could easily turn into a polemic, but suffice to say that for some (purists), Ottawa's sushi (esp. the AYCE) shares more similarity w/ Pizza-Pizza than with their counterparts "back home".

myself, i tend to regard the AYCE trend w/ some ambivalence. I rarely eat at 'em and (if i ate fish) would be suspicious of its quality: how cheap do you want your raw-ish fish to be? And, from even ltd. exposure to "sushi-yas" in Japan (10+ yrs ago), i'm fairly certain there's no "true" sushi-chefs working at these places. In turn, this is reflected in quality: i've had sufficient numbers of take-aways to recognize the corners that are cut, even on veggie fare (e.g., rolls falling apart, smothered in mayo). A couple trips a year to Vancouver serve as good comparisons / reminders.

Still, taste and standards are very subjective, and from a broader perspective, i almost hold certain admiration for the ingenuity and perhaps brashness of some of the local restauranteurs in stripping away some of its cultural baggage, de-mythologizing sushi, making it more accessible / familiar to the Ottawa market. Its not just "compromise", imo, but creative adaptation / localization. And, who am i? Just some guy who (too) often eats @ Pizza Pizza...

all the same, none of this theory holds much weight w/ the purists i know, inc. several Japanese expats-foodies, who cringe at the AYCE sushi trend, seeing it as the polar opposite of what they'd support in a sushi restaurant. There's even some x-cultural embarrassment of the "Do Canadians think Japanese restaurants are like this?" sort -- maybe that speaks to your "benchmarks" point.

So, yeah, on their behalf, i guess i'll have to agree that Ottawa would benefit by embracing the Japanese ideals a bit more, that sort of stuff captured (romanticized?), as an example, in Anthony Bourdain's visit to Sukiyabashi Jiro's "3-star" sushi-ya:


2009 Jun 7
I agree with both of you. We all know how much a sushi/sashimi lunch or dinner will cost. I have only visited the AYCE about 3 times and this was for economic reasons, and also curiosity. It was not a horrible experience, but certainly not comparable to Genji, Kochu or Ichibei.

2009 Jun 7
I agree also but do find they are a great place to take my bottomless pit sons for luch!

2009 Jun 7
Wow- finally watched that video clip and I was literally salivating. Amazing nigiri.

W.C. I imagine too that if I had boys that ate non stop those places would be OK too.


2009 Jun 7
WC -- exactly what i was going to add, reflecting back on a 17 yr old skeleton (nephew) who laid carnage to 2.5 full meals (+ appies) when we took him to Totoyo for a more classical Japanese set dinner.

It was a good intro to Japanese food and the source of some pride and amusement to the owner who stood by our table to witness the tail end of the event. But, there's definitely cheaper ways to feed a kid (thank you to House of Lasagna, where we ended up the next evening!). So, if nothing else, i'm happy the proliferation of AYCE sushi has at least given us options for his next visit.

another point to add is that this thread has echoes of Chimi's "rant" on the lack of good Mexican (and probably others i don't recall right now). Maybe we should consolidate these "there ain't no good xyz" into one super-thread, and get it out of our collective systems?

2009 Jun 7
Pan, i've posted it before (i think), but here's another must-watch for sushi lovers:



Very tongue-in-cheek / satiric ... though i imagine a lot is lost in translation.

2009 Jun 8
AYCE is entry-level japanese food. It is a way for people to try out a wide variety of different basic sushi types, sashimi, tempura and other dishes such as that. Once you know the categories which you tend to like more then others, _then_ you can choose to go for a higher quality lower quantity meal.

The other element is that ayce is (relatively) healthy on a whole. One yuppie food coupon is enough to stuff ya to the gills, lasting a couple days, with fairly healthy food. The economics are good and additionally, it is an excellent opportunity for social interaction in groups. I have a friend who is away in Wales for graduate schooling and whenever she returns to Ottawa, she has limited time. She organizes AYCE meetups for the social aspect and the fact that the meals can accomodate almost anyone regardless of most allergies. The format, like Dim Sum, is perfectly designed for socializing.

Just my 2 yen.

2009 Jun 8
Put me down as another one who finds these whole AYCE places disconcerting... as it is I am not a big fan of the "buffet" concept, and well AYCE is even farther down the food chain in my mind.

When I think of AYCE, I think of starving student fare... pizza, wings, spaghetti and knowing that sushi requires a high level of sanitation, and knowledgeable food handling, well it just turns my stomach.

Add to that the concept that Pan Bagnat mentioned in regards to the historical presentation of sushi, and the traditions that are proud part of the Japenese Culture, and I am sure there are past generations of sushi chefs rolling over in their graves.

I for one have only been to a few classical sushi spots, but I remember how the first time I had sushi, I was dazzled with the presentation of the sushi, and the food specific serving dishes (bento boxes, boats, etc) and how the sushi chef (who I had the joy of watching across the counter) smiled with pride as he presented my meal to me.

Jagash made some good points above, AYCE offers a social aspect and is indeed a great way for a group of friends with varying tastes and dietary requirements to get together for a meal (as would be a buffet or dim sum).

BUT, I still can't get past the whole "dumbing down" of sushi, and the concerns that I have as to food handling etc. when something is done on this large a scale, and by what I am guessing are far less trained personnel (doubting that they even hire full fledge sushi chefs at the prices they are charging to eat there... wondering how they even cover their food costs as it is so they can buy quality fish... also basing this on the amount of "negative" reviews these places seem to have garnered in the last few months, including references to people being ill afterwards).

No thanks, when it comes to sushi, I'll be sticking to traditional restaurants for my sushi... I've done the "sushi watusi" once when I bought take-out sushi from Loblaws and it was severely unpleasant... I won't be signing up again any time soon.

2009 Jun 10
so here is an interesting point to ponder. While I agree AYCE sushi is probably a huge abomination, I think it can actually help the quality level in a place like Ottawa. In places like LA and Vancouver there are sushi shops on every corner, getting a fresh supply doesn't seem to be an issue and there are lots of great options. (Having said that my first AYCE sushi experience was in LA circa 1997). What AYCE sushi brings to a market like Ottawa is a reasonably priced sushi experience with HIGH TURNOVER. This is the key in keeping the fresh fish supply up. In general Ottawa is relatively high priced for sushi, compared to say Vancouver. If you go to a more expensive place, with a high turnover, you probably get the best possible sushi. If you go to some other places with not as much turnover, you may get hit or miss quality. Hopefully the AYCE places that are good, can delivery a higher quality product at a moderate price because of the turnover.

My theory anyway - Hockey Sushi seems consistently busy, and has been pretty good so far.

2009 Jun 12
Took my mother and my sons to "Hockey Sushi" in Kanata. I think it is important to note that alot of the AYCE Japanese places aren't just about the sushi. Mom had teriyaki, tempura, dumplings, soup, salad and green tea ice cream. There are a lot of options for the less adventurous--someone mentioned, an introduction to this stuff (she is from northern ontario--not much Japanese and virtually no sushi there!) It can be a great intro to a new culinary experience for alot of people.
And I agree with F&T--i really don't enjoy buffets or all you can eat--except when I'm paying for said bottomless pit 20ish year old males.

2009 Jun 14
"The contemporary version, internationally known as "sushi," was invented by Hanaya Yohei (華屋与兵衛; 1799–1858) at the end of Edo period in Edo. The sushi invented by Hanaya was an early form of fast food that was not fermented (therefore prepared quickly) and could be eaten with one's hands roadside or in a theatre.[4] Originally, this sushi was known as Edomae zushi, because it used freshly caught fish in the Edo-mae (Edo Bay or Tokyo Bay). Though the fish used in modern sushi no longer usually comes from Tokyo Bay, it is still formally known as Edomae nigirizushi." - Wikipedia

Do you think that perhaps the relative exoticism of a dish like sushi here in Canada is leading to a slightly narrow understanding of its context? Sushi is wonderful and can be enjoyed in many different situations. Originally it was street food, of course with all of its merits it translates well into a more haute cuisine. Understandably something like sushi would be easier introduced in North America first to those who already have a relatively sophisticated interest in world cuisine, hence the focus here on sushi being a strictly haute cusine dish. I am sure that sushi has always appealed to a variety of markets in Japan and as demand grows in North America it makes sense that it would do the same here. Think relatively, is it such a bad thing that there is anther interesting and affordable dining option? As the market here matures the demand for quality will increase...