Should we make public the results of restaurant inspections? [General]
2008 Jul 7
I've seen a number of commercial kitchens over the years and the cleanliness varies from "Hospital-Spotless" to "Eeeeeekkk !!! What Died in Here ?".
I remember seeing Public Health Inspector reports taped to the window (or door) of restaraunts. This was some time ago.
I was told that they do not publish such reports because of liability and privacy issues. The same person said you can get the reports (one restaurant at a time) through a freedom of information procedure.
I remember seeing Public Health Inspector reports taped to the window (or door) of restaraunts. This was some time ago.
I was told that they do not publish such reports because of liability and privacy issues. The same person said you can get the reports (one restaurant at a time) through a freedom of information procedure.
2008 Jul 7
Pasta Lover - Hmmm, I need more time to think about the implications of this... But for now let me say this:
On a recent visit to Toronto, I noticed that a lot of places hang certificates on or near their door that give the grade that they received in a recent inspection. I thought that was a good idea.
On a recent visit to Toronto, I noticed that a lot of places hang certificates on or near their door that give the grade that they received in a recent inspection. I thought that was a good idea.
2008 Jul 7
No question. Absolutely! These are taxpayer funded inspections for public health reasons. At the very least, it should be public which places failed inspections, and/or had fix orders issued. Further, there should be no FOI request requirements to get such basic information. I suspect there's a dual reason for reports to not automatically be made public. The first reason, which is for public consumption is that it might harm businesses, but the second reason might be that the public might be appalled at the frequency (or lack thereof) of inspections. Anyone out there know how often a restaraunt is likely to get audited?
2008 Jul 7
P-I-O - I believe I read somewheres that after a FAILING Grade in Ottawa a restaurant is supposed to be inspected at least 3 times in the next year. And by my recollection the percentage of times that requirement is actually met is ridiculous. And that is for places that have FAILED, places they know have problems, places that should be their priority. If they can't get back around to them, then how many places are actually inspected properly in a year? The reasoning (as I understand it) is a shortage of inspectors and municipal funds. IMO, just another City of Ottawa screw-up.
2008 Jul 7
Yep, in Toronto it's required. You MUST post your inspection report in the window or somewhere visible from the outside.
app.city.toronto.on.ca
Also, health inspection reports are indeed made available to the public:
app.city.toronto.on.ca
I actually think it's silly that those reports aren't made available in Ottawa! People should know if places have a good track record for cleanliness, safe food handling, etc.
app.city.toronto.on.ca
Also, health inspection reports are indeed made available to the public:
app.city.toronto.on.ca
I actually think it's silly that those reports aren't made available in Ottawa! People should know if places have a good track record for cleanliness, safe food handling, etc.
2008 Jul 7
I think it would be a great thing to do. To hell with liability and privacy issues, I would think restaurants should be pressured to take food safety much more seriously if it lax standards caused public embarrassment. They publish them in NYC for over 20k restaurants: www.nyc.gov
2008 Jul 7
Food&Think do you know if the posting of those certificates are optional or mandatory? If it is optional we may only see certificates posted if the restaurant passed inspection. It may not be within the restaurant's best interest to post a certificate if they received a failing grade.
On another note I am firmly in favour of publishing the restaurant inspections. As I mentioned earlier this was done in Montreal when I lived there and it was only done once (that I can recall) when I first moved to Ottawa and I was alarmed at the reaction at first. Speaking from my Montreal experience the inspections were published four times a year (I believe) and the readership looked forward to seeing the results published in the paper. There was little backlash from the restaurants since it had been custom to do this and it gave the restaurants an added incentive to keep their restaurants clean IMO. My recollection of the Ottawa experience is that people were backlashing because they felt it would harm business. Personally if I knew my favourite restaurant failed inspection I would certainly want to know about it...
On another note I am firmly in favour of publishing the restaurant inspections. As I mentioned earlier this was done in Montreal when I lived there and it was only done once (that I can recall) when I first moved to Ottawa and I was alarmed at the reaction at first. Speaking from my Montreal experience the inspections were published four times a year (I believe) and the readership looked forward to seeing the results published in the paper. There was little backlash from the restaurants since it had been custom to do this and it gave the restaurants an added incentive to keep their restaurants clean IMO. My recollection of the Ottawa experience is that people were backlashing because they felt it would harm business. Personally if I knew my favourite restaurant failed inspection I would certainly want to know about it...
2008 Jul 7
The link Candice posted above is clear: posting is compulsory.
Toronto's Municipal Code 545-Licensing
As of January 2001, Toronto's Municipal Code 545-Licensing requires eating and drinking establishments (i.e. every place where food items intended for human consumption are made for sale, offered for sale, stored or sold), to do the following:
Post the food safety inspection notice in an obvious place clearly visible to members of the public, at or near the entrance of the establishment;
Post the Toronto eating or drinking establishment licence next to the food safety inspection notice;
Produce copies of the Toronto Public Health Food Safety Inspection Reports relating to the currently posted disclosure notice for your establishment, when requested by any person;
Notify the Toronto Municipal Licensing and Standards Division if there is a change in the management or control of the establishment; and
Notify the Toronto Municipal Licensing and Standards Division of any change or changes to the operation of the business that may result in "risk classification changes", at least 30 days prior to the change.
The obvious conclusion is, if Ottawa claims they are not posting due to liability issues, they are obfuscating.
Toronto's Municipal Code 545-Licensing
As of January 2001, Toronto's Municipal Code 545-Licensing requires eating and drinking establishments (i.e. every place where food items intended for human consumption are made for sale, offered for sale, stored or sold), to do the following:
Post the food safety inspection notice in an obvious place clearly visible to members of the public, at or near the entrance of the establishment;
Post the Toronto eating or drinking establishment licence next to the food safety inspection notice;
Produce copies of the Toronto Public Health Food Safety Inspection Reports relating to the currently posted disclosure notice for your establishment, when requested by any person;
Notify the Toronto Municipal Licensing and Standards Division if there is a change in the management or control of the establishment; and
Notify the Toronto Municipal Licensing and Standards Division of any change or changes to the operation of the business that may result in "risk classification changes", at least 30 days prior to the change.
The obvious conclusion is, if Ottawa claims they are not posting due to liability issues, they are obfuscating.
2008 Jul 7
OK, I've now had a chance to read all the documentation, The Ottawa Citizen Editorial along with the link for the City of Toronto - Dine Safe Program Guidelines. I'd have to say that I am IN FAVOUR of Inspection Results being made available on the Internet, so that as taxpayers in Ottawa we would be aware of (a) the status of food establishments in Ottawa, and (b) have an idea of how our Food Inspection money is being sent (how many inspections are being conducted annually, and if indeed there is a problem to do so financially... obviously if not enough inspections are being conducted, then we should be hiring more inspectors for the job because it is a matter of public health).
As per Candice's link to Toronto, it is indeed mandatory in Toronto that the Inspection Certificates are posted at or near the door. And the link points out that there are 3 Classifications - PASS, CONDITIONAL PASS, and CLOSURE. The Certificates come in 3 colours that correspond (and are therefore easily distinguished) Green, Yellow - Caution, and Red.
I found a few things interesting when reading from the City of Toronto Site... I was not aware that a PASS could also include minor infractions (such as the absense of hairnets). A CONDITIONAL PASS was for more serious infractions, and was issued with the stipulation that the establishment had 2 more inspections to improve to a PASS. Sort of the "3 Strikes You're Out" Rule. CONDITIONAL PASSES are only issued if the failing condition is not as serious as an out-right failure. A CONDITIONAL PASS could include indirect food handling issues or things that might effect food safety... such as dirty equipment, broken equipment, garbage storage, lack of handwashing supplies etc. Fines were issued for all infractions (no matter whether they occured as part of a PASS or CONDITIONAL PASS). Overall FAILURES can lead to CLOSURE, Fines and Court Appearances.
Also, it has been noted that in the cities where these Inspections are made public, the bar is set a little higher. Not only do the otherwise CONDITIONAL PASSES decrease, but everyone in the food industry strives a little harder to do much better.
I believe it is time Ottawa cleaned up their act!
P-I-O - According to the Toronto Website, they strive to inspect HIGH RISK locations 3 times a year, MEDIUM RISK twice a year, and LOW RISK once a year.
Tre - You are absolutely right if NYCity can do it anyone can.
As per Candice's link to Toronto, it is indeed mandatory in Toronto that the Inspection Certificates are posted at or near the door. And the link points out that there are 3 Classifications - PASS, CONDITIONAL PASS, and CLOSURE. The Certificates come in 3 colours that correspond (and are therefore easily distinguished) Green, Yellow - Caution, and Red.
I found a few things interesting when reading from the City of Toronto Site... I was not aware that a PASS could also include minor infractions (such as the absense of hairnets). A CONDITIONAL PASS was for more serious infractions, and was issued with the stipulation that the establishment had 2 more inspections to improve to a PASS. Sort of the "3 Strikes You're Out" Rule. CONDITIONAL PASSES are only issued if the failing condition is not as serious as an out-right failure. A CONDITIONAL PASS could include indirect food handling issues or things that might effect food safety... such as dirty equipment, broken equipment, garbage storage, lack of handwashing supplies etc. Fines were issued for all infractions (no matter whether they occured as part of a PASS or CONDITIONAL PASS). Overall FAILURES can lead to CLOSURE, Fines and Court Appearances.
Also, it has been noted that in the cities where these Inspections are made public, the bar is set a little higher. Not only do the otherwise CONDITIONAL PASSES decrease, but everyone in the food industry strives a little harder to do much better.
I believe it is time Ottawa cleaned up their act!
P-I-O - According to the Toronto Website, they strive to inspect HIGH RISK locations 3 times a year, MEDIUM RISK twice a year, and LOW RISK once a year.
Tre - You are absolutely right if NYCity can do it anyone can.
2008 Jul 8
Incidentally, I mentioned this in another topic (exactly one year ago!): ottawafoodies.com
Here's what I wrote then:
On a peripherally related note, does anyone know of a way to access hygiene inspection reports for Ottawa restaurants?
Toronto forces restaurants to post their latest report on the door for public view. Victoria posts everything online, allowing you to search for any restaurant: www.healthspace.com
I'd love something like Victoria's system. But it seems all we have is a measly PR blurb: ottawa.ca
Here's what I wrote then:
On a peripherally related note, does anyone know of a way to access hygiene inspection reports for Ottawa restaurants?
Toronto forces restaurants to post their latest report on the door for public view. Victoria posts everything online, allowing you to search for any restaurant: www.healthspace.com
I'd love something like Victoria's system. But it seems all we have is a measly PR blurb: ottawa.ca
Pasta lover
The City of Montreal used to publish the results of restaurant inspections in the local newspapers. There was a small fine for failing grades but the theory was that public embarrasment would bring desired results quicker. I recall the City of Ottawa doing this once when I first moved to Ottawa in the late 80's but there was public debate over whether we should we be doing this - does public interest take precedence over protecting the restaurant's interests? I would love to hear what ottawafoodies think.