MF and MG on cheeses [General]

2011 Feb 13
Hi guys,

I'm a cheese noobie and I'm wondering what does the abbreviation mean?

Oh and I found a nice pizza dough recipe, and now wondering where to find good mozzarella.

-p

2011 Feb 13
I'm guessing that it is Milk Fat and Matiere Gras. Usually followed by percentage.

Nicastros has buffalo milk mozzarella which is a treat on home made pizza. They also have their own house-brand mozzarella which is pretty good. I also like Black River mozzarella.

2011 Feb 13
I would second black river mozzarella, as well as the Nicastro's or La Bottega house-brands. Mind you, I like buffalo mozzarella, but not on pizza.

2011 Feb 14
Hopefully I don't get skewered here, but I've had good luck with Silani Mozzarella, that comes in ball form. It's cheap, not too salty, has 'good string', and melts nicely on the pizza. I would avoid the pre-shredded cheese mostly because it's had stuff added to it to keep it from sticking, which increases the saltiness ( to my tongue at least). Of course, if you're going to the trouble of making your own dough, it might be worth it to make some thin crust pizza with goat cheese. I can heartily recommend cheese from Fifth Town ( www.fifthtown.ca/ ) such as Bedda Fedda.

2011 Feb 14
Watch for ingredients in the cheese. Nicastro's has modified milk ingredients in their house cheese. The water buffalo mozzarella at Nicastro's is great on pizza though it does add moisture to your pie. I like St Albert's mozzarella for pizza.

2011 Feb 15
Ken, can you clarify which Nicastro's house cheeses have modified milk ingredients? Some folk associate Nicastro's with Bottega (which is obviously not the case), but there's also confusion as to Il Negozio. I assume you mean the Bank Street/Merivale locations.

2011 Feb 15
The mozzarella Nicastro's brands as their own has the modified milk ingredients. The location where I read their ingredient list was Nicastro's on Merivale. Balderson mild cheddar sold at Farm boy also has modified milk ingredients on the ingredient list. At Farmboy I asked the person at the cheese counter about ingriedents of their medium and mild Balderson and I got a cluelesss glare so I had to look on the giant chunk of mild cheddar to find the list since cuts from this chunk are cut and wrapped in store and do not have a list on them. Makes sense since the cheeses in question are quite a bit less expensive than cheeses made the traditional way. I guess powdered milk from who knows where is way cheaper than fresh milk and easier to transport and handle. My question is what else is considered a modified milk ingridient and if imported from another country should this not be on the label?

2011 Feb 16
Sadly Ken V, what I consider some of the most important information is not on the labels. Modified milk ingredients often mean milk products from the states. So, hormones are most likely included with the cheese. Even sadder, there is a huge market of illegal hormone use on Canadian dairy farms. Which means most regular milk and cheese on the shelf is full of things that are best not eaten or fed to children.

If you can afford the organic cheese, then you know it's hormone free. Organic cheese is tested. I will be the first to admit that bootleg/homemade fresh and stretchy mozzarella is hard to come by though. Most of the organic mozzarella in stores is more of an aged cheese, rather than the ball stretchy organic mozz that goes on our pizza on homemade pizza night.

There are more and more small cheese makers like Fith Town popping up, if we the consumers ask them for what we are looking for, the products will begin to appear.

The one thing you can be sure of with cheese is that all real cheese is free of antibiotics. You can't make cheese if there is even a trace of antibiotics.
Not sure of that would be the same for 'cheeses' like Cheeze Whiz or Velvita! tee hee.


2011 Feb 16
organicgirl: "...there is a huge market of illegal hormone use on Canadian dairy farms. Which means most regular milk and cheese on the shelf is full of things that are best not eaten or fed to children."
You should report that to public health authorities! It's illegal to use rBST and the like on dairy cows in Canada and I never knew anyone who did.

"The one thing you can be sure of with cheese is that all real cheese is free of antibiotics. You can't make cheese if there is even a trace of antibiotics.
Not sure of that would be the same for 'cheeses' like Cheeze Whiz or Velvita! tee hee."
If milk from all the non-organic farms is made into cheeses then that means it doesn't contain antibiotics, right?

All Canadian cheese should be free of antibiotics, whether organic or not. Did you know that every load of milk taken from a farm is sampled and random testing for numerous substances takes place - very large dairy farms would be daily pickup and testing, smaller farms pickup is every second day. Additionally, every single truckload that is taken from a pooled group of farms is sampled and every single load is tested and if it doesn't pass antibiotic testing they then test farm samples to determine the origin of the offending farm and charge them for the loss of the truckload or a silo of milk if it has been offloaded into the plant (contaminated milk is dumped) - the penalties can be many, many thousands of dollars, not something any of the farmers I know would want. Additionally they would be subject to farm inspections and indeed loss of their milk production license if they didn't adhere to rules, regulations and the law. And so they should be subject to penalty!
As for Kraft Cheez Wiz and Velveeta I can only hope (and would wager) that they are antibiotic-free - that concern isn't what keeps me from buying either.

I don't know much about modified milk ingredients (but I presume that refers mainly to milk casein ie milk proteins) but I'd be more concerned about them sourcing it from China (due to events of recent past). Just my humble opinion.

2011 Feb 17
You did do a good job of explaining how milk is tested. I thought about posting more details on that, but I think you would have explained it better than me. The fees for contaminating the milk with antibiotics are steep indeed!

There is a huge market for all sorts of illegal agriculture chemicals in Canada. Not just in dairy farming. The dairy farmers I know do know of conventional dairy farms who are using things that they shouldn't. Any farmer can mail order rBST to their farm, but of course, they aren't allowed to use it once it's on their farm. Reporting to public health seems to gain no results. I wish farmers were more concerned with safety for themselves and their produce. Maybe then there would be less use of health harming chemicals.

About the antibiotics comments you make above, my comment about real cheese said that, didn't it? I'm assuming that you think I didn't say that because in your post you ask if I knew that. ;-)

You can't make cheese (conventional or organic) if there are antibiotics in the milk. I thought people would like to know that even if they aren't buying organic cheese, they are not ingesting antibiotics with them.

When I was said 'real cheese' I was trying to be humorous about the possibility that products like Cheese Whiz or Velveeta aren't in fact cheese!

Maybe I worded the post poorly, as I was talking mostly about hormones, and then antibiotics.


2011 Feb 17
I was led a little astray by the wording re antibiotics - glad you make your position more clear.
I will have to ask around about the illegal use of hormones - I don't believe it's as widespread as you seem to think (I hope I'm not naive!). I believe that Cheez Whiz and Velveeta are both made from real cheese (and suspect it's made from cheese past it's BB date but that's conjecture).
One last thing - I don't know (but suspect it's not the case) but wonder if organic milk is free of natural hormones, and can unscrupulous organic dairy farmers using rBST get away with it or can it be detected? Just wondering if you have any info on this - I don't.

2011 Feb 18
Glad you get what I was saying before, Andy. ;-) And I'm not sure if I will ever consider Cheeze Whiz or Velveeta to be classified as cheese. I guess we'll have to disagree on that one. :-D

Here's what I found out today, as your post got me wondering about testing for hormones in Canadian milk/cheese etc.

I was talking with three dairy farmers today when I went to pick up grain, all were from certified organic farms, (one with quota, one that used to have quota, and one that milks only for the table - she mostly grows grain) and all have not only heard of the use of rBST, but also regular use of fertility drugs to synchronize heat cycles and oxytocin to stimulate let down reflex. All three have seen the daily use of banned substances on conventional farms, as they have all worked as relief milkers on other farms at various points.

Currently, there is no testing for hormones in the Canadian milk supply (that I know of). However, on organic dairy farms two things (probably more) prevent the use of hormones. There is the yearly organic inspection that is more invasive than a police raid (I speak from personal experience!), and places like "Organic Meadows" and "Harmony" also do numerous on-farm inspections and tests. I think I heard the term 'monthly' tossed around, but I might not be remembering that right.

I didn't call Organic Meadows or Harmony, but was tempted! lol! Maybe they do test random samples for hormones.

In the course of either inspection, it would be obvious by the records kept if rBST was being used to prolong the lacation of a cow. Using it to make more milk doesn't make sense with the quota system. It would also be obvious that fertility drugs were being used if all or most the cows were being serviced by the AI guy on the same day. And, I forget what they said about oxytocin. sorry.

I also called the certification agency our farm is certified with, because like I said, you got me to thinking about it. He echoed most of what the farmers I spoke to today said. However, he did say that most milk products from other countries, especially the states would have things like rBST in them.

Those were just three of the many farmers I know that have mentioned this. There have been articles written about it, try a google search maybe. I wish it weren't a wide spread problem, but I fear that it is.


2011 Feb 18
Quick question for Organicgirl. So would modified milk ingredients used in Canadian cheese be imported from outside Canada?

2011 Feb 20
As far as I know, it's very common. Again, thinking back to the conversation I had the other day with those farmers, they said we import more milk products than we export here in Canada. I would strongly suggest you do some research though, I know dairy farmers, not milk importers. ;-)

I think the party line from the Dairy Producers is look for the 'little blue cow' on the label and then you know it's milk products from Canada, not elsewhere. Not a gaurantee that it will be free of illegal hormones, but certainly better than what might be in the imports from the US, Mexico or China.

I found it way easier to avoid imported milk ingredients by just getting my own cow and producing my own milk, cheese and butter. lol! I don't recommend this to folks who live in apartments or that have small yards. ;-)

Oh, and I guess I should have asked, what do you mean by "Canadian Cheese"? I find the label laws here confusing, because 'produced in Canada' doesn't really mean what I think it should mean. From what I know, many companies buy 'modified milk ingredients' bring them to Canada and make cheese, ice cream, etc. The final product is made in Canada so it gets the "Made in Canada" label.

And I'm not saying that's wrong, because if someone wants to buy some coconut milk and spices to make something fabulous, it could be 'made in Canada'. I think it wouldn't be hard to come up with a label policy that shows what's imported and where the final product was made.

Long answer to a short question, but I'm not sure if I answered your question!

2011 Feb 20
Question answered thank you organicgirl. I'm just not going to eat modified milk ingredients. I found this interesting we received a gift basket at christmas from Hickory Farms and it had cheese in it. The label indicated that it only had traditional cheese ingredients yet it did not have to be refrigerated how can that be? How can yo have cheese in a box for well,the expiry date was a year from now and not refrigerate it? My wife tried it said said it tasted like processed cheese slices. She is braver than me I will not go near it.

2011 Feb 20
Well, I am only very a novice cheese maker, but as far as I know, cheese just keeps aging. But at room temperature? Sounds dubious to me! Perhaps it's a fancy version of Velveeta or Cheese Whiz. ;-)

Now this all has me wondering about the actual meaning of 'modified milk ingredients'...

I agree that your wife is brave, Ken V, but in the interest of full disclosure, many years ago, before I knew what I know now about food, I too had a Hickory Farms gift basket. I tucked right in and tried everything. Didn't even read the ingredients, ate the meat and the cheese. Was disappointed in both. And this was back in the day when I had an appreciation for Movie Theater nacho cheese.

2011 Feb 20
the only safe thing to eat in a hickory farms gift box is the melty mints.

2011 Feb 20
Well I learned a lot more than I needed. LOL.

I guess I'm gonna start getting milk that comes in a bottle in Aubrey's.

2011 Feb 21
lol! well ripkirby, now that you've learned all sorts of interesting cheese facts, how 'bout sharing that nice pizza dough recipe?