raw milk in Ottawa? [Food/Vendor]
2010 Feb 8
MedicineJar - LOL, not quite... Making & Selling Moonshine is illegal. Drinking Raw Milk from your own animals is not... but selling the same to other individuals is.
The reason being exactly that... IF it was the days when we all had our own cows we'd know where the milk came from (and when)... since Industrialization we are now feeding millions from the milk from just a few locations... so in order for the milk last longer (can't milk the cow at 5 AM and have the jug on the table for Breakfast at 7 AM anymore) then Pasteurization is a method by which "Governments" uses to both control the market and provide confidence to the consumer. In this North American obsessed "germ culture" there have been many arguments for and against Pasteurization, at this point in time it is now probably the Public who has become skeptical of change (not many people remember Raw Milk).
I grew up around dairy farms... and drank a lot of raw milk. Haven't done so for years though... not sure how I'd take to it now. I currently drink 1% (for health reasons) after moving down from 2%... before that I was strictly a homogenized girl (because it was similiar to what I was used to). But not sure I could go backwards up the chain again.
But change can happen, witness the changes in Quebec in recent years in regards to raw milk cheeses.
The reason being exactly that... IF it was the days when we all had our own cows we'd know where the milk came from (and when)... since Industrialization we are now feeding millions from the milk from just a few locations... so in order for the milk last longer (can't milk the cow at 5 AM and have the jug on the table for Breakfast at 7 AM anymore) then Pasteurization is a method by which "Governments" uses to both control the market and provide confidence to the consumer. In this North American obsessed "germ culture" there have been many arguments for and against Pasteurization, at this point in time it is now probably the Public who has become skeptical of change (not many people remember Raw Milk).
I grew up around dairy farms... and drank a lot of raw milk. Haven't done so for years though... not sure how I'd take to it now. I currently drink 1% (for health reasons) after moving down from 2%... before that I was strictly a homogenized girl (because it was similiar to what I was used to). But not sure I could go backwards up the chain again.
But change can happen, witness the changes in Quebec in recent years in regards to raw milk cheeses.
2010 Feb 8
F&T, I know there are health issues and I understand many of the points you note. But I guess overall I wish the government would adopt a regulatory approach with regards to food that gave consumers the ability to to make informed choices. Clearly, there are minimum standards that need to be met but having said that I believe the government is going far beyond that and making a lot of choices for us in this area.
Personally, I would like a system in which providers were required to give necessary information about the food and the risks, and follow certain safety regulations in terms of cleanliness etc. Consumers could then take that information and make informed choices. Say what you want, but I think we need to get Bo and Luke Duke to start running raw milk in the Ottawa Valley. All they need to do is replace the Confederate flag on that roof with a Union Jack and we are in business! G'Day G'Day!
Personally, I would like a system in which providers were required to give necessary information about the food and the risks, and follow certain safety regulations in terms of cleanliness etc. Consumers could then take that information and make informed choices. Say what you want, but I think we need to get Bo and Luke Duke to start running raw milk in the Ottawa Valley. All they need to do is replace the Confederate flag on that roof with a Union Jack and we are in business! G'Day G'Day!
2010 Feb 10
"I just wanted to add that if you're willing to settle for second best, Harmony Organic has regular unhomogenized milk. I don't know if it's available in the gabletop cartons, but you can buy it in glass bottles at the Herb & Spice."
hehe that is exactly what I was doing so far. but i'm ready for an upgrade. :)
hehe that is exactly what I was doing so far. but i'm ready for an upgrade. :)
2010 Feb 11
When I was a kid I drank raw milk a couple times and didn't like it at all..bleeck
Way to creamy for me.
Give me good ol' Pasteurized 2% milk any day....yum yum oh and don't forget,
"Safe to drink"
They don't make a big deal about Louis Pasteur in the biology books for nothing.
en.wikipedia.org
Way to creamy for me.
Give me good ol' Pasteurized 2% milk any day....yum yum oh and don't forget,
"Safe to drink"
They don't make a big deal about Louis Pasteur in the biology books for nothing.
en.wikipedia.org
2010 Feb 11
"I heard that if you were never exposed to raw milk as a child, you will never dev,elop sufficient tolerance to drink it as an adult. Is this true?"
Never heard that before; from personal experience, and from the experience of family and friends, I/they never had issues from drinking raw milk never having had it as children. I was about 25 when I first had it and a few years later started drinking it every day - at that point I was learning how to run a dairy farm with my wife (her dad was a dairy farmer and had been killed).
The dairy industry is much safer now than it was in the days of Louis Pasteur but we must remember that all raw milk is contaminated to some extent - after all, cows are milked in a barn or a milking parlour, and are not milked under sterile conditions. Most farmers do a good job of keeping sanitary conditions, some do a great job, some a poor job. Even the best farmers can have issues on a single day that can contaminate their milk. We still need to pasteurize milk on a large scale for the safety of consumers. Selling unpasteurized milk is a minefield that, if encouraged, could grow and have serious problems one day - witness the Maple Leaf listeria outbreak. What happens then? I think that if raw milk sales were legal that the higher value the milk likely has would attract some whose interest is in the money, not the intrinsic value of raw milk, and that may have a negative effect for the industry and the consumer. Even with all the myriad regulations in place some people will still ignore some laws/regulations/rules to suit their own wishes. And as the number of farmers continues to decrease (there are now less than half the dairy farmers in Ontario than when I started in 1980) and farms become larger and hire more employees there are more issues as employees are hardworked, underpaid and less motivated perhaps.
If raw milk is legallized, and it now seems possible through the cowshare program, health issues will eventually appear, I believe, and deaths may occur; insurance issues and more government regulation are sure to follow. But the interest in raw milk is likely to continue in any event, and likely will continue to grow, slowly I suspect.
If I were a dairy farmer today I wonder what I would do if raw milk sales were legal; I never did sell any privately - it all went through the milk board system (up to ~1200L/day when there were a number of fresh high producers). Just the legal ramifications would be daunting for me, I daresay, as I'm no lawyer. Others would be less concerned and quicker than me to pursue the opportunity, I'm sure.
It will be interesting to see how this will all shake out in the judicial and legislative systems, and I will be following it with interest.
Never heard that before; from personal experience, and from the experience of family and friends, I/they never had issues from drinking raw milk never having had it as children. I was about 25 when I first had it and a few years later started drinking it every day - at that point I was learning how to run a dairy farm with my wife (her dad was a dairy farmer and had been killed).
The dairy industry is much safer now than it was in the days of Louis Pasteur but we must remember that all raw milk is contaminated to some extent - after all, cows are milked in a barn or a milking parlour, and are not milked under sterile conditions. Most farmers do a good job of keeping sanitary conditions, some do a great job, some a poor job. Even the best farmers can have issues on a single day that can contaminate their milk. We still need to pasteurize milk on a large scale for the safety of consumers. Selling unpasteurized milk is a minefield that, if encouraged, could grow and have serious problems one day - witness the Maple Leaf listeria outbreak. What happens then? I think that if raw milk sales were legal that the higher value the milk likely has would attract some whose interest is in the money, not the intrinsic value of raw milk, and that may have a negative effect for the industry and the consumer. Even with all the myriad regulations in place some people will still ignore some laws/regulations/rules to suit their own wishes. And as the number of farmers continues to decrease (there are now less than half the dairy farmers in Ontario than when I started in 1980) and farms become larger and hire more employees there are more issues as employees are hardworked, underpaid and less motivated perhaps.
If raw milk is legallized, and it now seems possible through the cowshare program, health issues will eventually appear, I believe, and deaths may occur; insurance issues and more government regulation are sure to follow. But the interest in raw milk is likely to continue in any event, and likely will continue to grow, slowly I suspect.
If I were a dairy farmer today I wonder what I would do if raw milk sales were legal; I never did sell any privately - it all went through the milk board system (up to ~1200L/day when there were a number of fresh high producers). Just the legal ramifications would be daunting for me, I daresay, as I'm no lawyer. Others would be less concerned and quicker than me to pursue the opportunity, I'm sure.
It will be interesting to see how this will all shake out in the judicial and legislative systems, and I will be following it with interest.
2010 Feb 11
Okay I swear I'm under 90, but not only did I love raw milk as a child, I would help a family friend milk the cows to get it. Mmmmmmm so fresh it's still warm.
I'm super glad to see this thread though, as I've been thinking I'd like to try my hand at making various cheeses for the family and raw milk is the way to go.
We like to drink the Harmony unhomogonized milk as a treat (my kids call it creamy milk) but go for daily milk we go 1% organic to cut the fat a bit. We go through a lot of milk around here.
I'm super glad to see this thread though, as I've been thinking I'd like to try my hand at making various cheeses for the family and raw milk is the way to go.
We like to drink the Harmony unhomogonized milk as a treat (my kids call it creamy milk) but go for daily milk we go 1% organic to cut the fat a bit. We go through a lot of milk around here.
2010 Feb 12
Zymurgist:
I did a reverse 411 on the phone number you typed into your earlier post and saw that it is for the Conklin family near Spencerville (south of Ottawa and just west of Highay 416). There is also a Jacqueline Fennell and her husband involved in a cow share program in Grenville County. Jackie used to be the president of the Grenville Landowners Association and has been interviewed by Rebecca Zandbergen on CBC Radio several times on the raw milk issue.
I was just wondering who you had been speaking with since I am interested in doing a story for my farm publication (www.agrinews.ca) on the sale of raw milk in Eastern Ontario.
Regards
Vinny
By the way, I am interested in learning the breed of beef raised by your grass fed supplier.
I did a reverse 411 on the phone number you typed into your earlier post and saw that it is for the Conklin family near Spencerville (south of Ottawa and just west of Highay 416). There is also a Jacqueline Fennell and her husband involved in a cow share program in Grenville County. Jackie used to be the president of the Grenville Landowners Association and has been interviewed by Rebecca Zandbergen on CBC Radio several times on the raw milk issue.
I was just wondering who you had been speaking with since I am interested in doing a story for my farm publication (www.agrinews.ca) on the sale of raw milk in Eastern Ontario.
Regards
Vinny
By the way, I am interested in learning the breed of beef raised by your grass fed supplier.
2010 Feb 18
Got my share today at Conavista Farm. The milk is amazing.
I've also had a tour of the farm. The cows are well treated. The barn is very clean and smells like a good barn. The animals looked clean and happy. They were chewing on some hay and drinking water. There also were three little calves. One of them came up and I pet it. It started licking my jacket. Maybe it found some road salt...
I've also had a tour of the farm. The cows are well treated. The barn is very clean and smells like a good barn. The animals looked clean and happy. They were chewing on some hay and drinking water. There also were three little calves. One of them came up and I pet it. It started licking my jacket. Maybe it found some road salt...
2010 Feb 19
Don't know about W.C., but when I was drinking it as a child my
"mysterious" gastro ailments cleared up, as did my psoriasis/eczema. Of course, I was drinking raw goats milk - once we switched back to regular cows milk they all came back. :p
My parents were only "hippy" in their approach to these things due to finances and rural living, but I certainly have a strong appreciation for the origins of my food as a result! ;)
"mysterious" gastro ailments cleared up, as did my psoriasis/eczema. Of course, I was drinking raw goats milk - once we switched back to regular cows milk they all came back. :p
My parents were only "hippy" in their approach to these things due to finances and rural living, but I certainly have a strong appreciation for the origins of my food as a result! ;)
2010 Feb 20
Sorry I was vague---the few people I have tested for unpasteurized milk did not come up sensitive. I don't have statistics but I would say about 50% of those tested for "regular" milk show some degree of sensitivity (symptoms can vary-stomach/digestive upset to nasal/sinus/lung congestion). Also I tend to be testing folks who are looking for the source of some sort of health issue. I personally do not drink milk but probably would if I had an easily accessible, reliable source of unpasteurized milk and milk products.
2011 Aug 8
This may be of interest to raw milk aficianados...Michael Schmidt the raw milk crusdader's website:
www.glencoltonfarms.com/
www.glencoltonfarms.com/
2011 Aug 12
I've got some friends in BC who swear by raw milk, and I'm really curious to give it a try. I go through a lot of yogurt to help manage lactose intolerance, but the ingredients list on most yogurt is a bit Frankenstein. It would be pretty neat to try taking yogurt-making back to its roots.
I've tried to get in touch with Conavista Farms about the co op, but never got any reply from them. Can anyone tell me if the cow shares are still an option?
I've tried to get in touch with Conavista Farms about the co op, but never got any reply from them. Can anyone tell me if the cow shares are still an option?
2011 Aug 14
I've had experience with 'store milk', cow shares, and owning a cow, and I think that all three options have their pro's and cons.
I haven't had milk from the store in about 5 years, and think if I didn't have my cows anymore, or couldn't access a share, and all my cow owning neighbours couldn't sell me milk, I'd just give it up and not drink milk anymore.
My husband couldn't drink milk without getting unpleasantly ill until we got a cow share and access to fresh milk. Our cow share was with Conavista. John and Jacqueline are very passionate about making sure people have access to milk regardless of what the government says. They have Holstein cows and they are kept on pasture as long as the season allows.
When we were ready to stop renting a cow to get our own for the farm, we purchased a Jersey from the certified organic farm down the road. Now that I've had Jersey milk, I'd be hard pressed to go back to Holstein. My kids love the Jersey milk but never really drank the other milk. They did love the cheese and curds from Conavista though!
I had no idea that milk from a certain breed of cow would be different from another, but it is. We also have a Dexter, and her milk has the same fat content as the Jersey, but the taste and mouth feel is very different, because the fat particles are large in Jersey's but much smaller in Dexters.
If you are trying to contact a farmer about a cow share, remember that summer is a busy time for any farmer. Or, maybe they don't have space for more shares. Try calling them again. Won't hurt.
As well, try going to www.realmilk.com to find other farms offering cow shares in Ontario and Quebec. I think Alpenblick Farm also offers both cow and goat shares.
And for what it's worth, anything has potential risk. Milk fresh from the cow, or fresh from the store are both great mediums for growing bacteria, good or bad. I think it's far more important to be sure that the cow is healthy, the farm is clean, and the milk is handled properly by the farmer and the person purchasing the milk.
If you do have access to fresh milk, using it warm to make yogurt or kefir creates a very different flavour than when using cold milk from the fridge. I haven't made yogurt in ages, but prepare kefir everyday, and it's pretty yummy when made with fresh, warm milk.
I haven't had milk from the store in about 5 years, and think if I didn't have my cows anymore, or couldn't access a share, and all my cow owning neighbours couldn't sell me milk, I'd just give it up and not drink milk anymore.
My husband couldn't drink milk without getting unpleasantly ill until we got a cow share and access to fresh milk. Our cow share was with Conavista. John and Jacqueline are very passionate about making sure people have access to milk regardless of what the government says. They have Holstein cows and they are kept on pasture as long as the season allows.
When we were ready to stop renting a cow to get our own for the farm, we purchased a Jersey from the certified organic farm down the road. Now that I've had Jersey milk, I'd be hard pressed to go back to Holstein. My kids love the Jersey milk but never really drank the other milk. They did love the cheese and curds from Conavista though!
I had no idea that milk from a certain breed of cow would be different from another, but it is. We also have a Dexter, and her milk has the same fat content as the Jersey, but the taste and mouth feel is very different, because the fat particles are large in Jersey's but much smaller in Dexters.
If you are trying to contact a farmer about a cow share, remember that summer is a busy time for any farmer. Or, maybe they don't have space for more shares. Try calling them again. Won't hurt.
As well, try going to www.realmilk.com to find other farms offering cow shares in Ontario and Quebec. I think Alpenblick Farm also offers both cow and goat shares.
And for what it's worth, anything has potential risk. Milk fresh from the cow, or fresh from the store are both great mediums for growing bacteria, good or bad. I think it's far more important to be sure that the cow is healthy, the farm is clean, and the milk is handled properly by the farmer and the person purchasing the milk.
If you do have access to fresh milk, using it warm to make yogurt or kefir creates a very different flavour than when using cold milk from the fridge. I haven't made yogurt in ages, but prepare kefir everyday, and it's pretty yummy when made with fresh, warm milk.
2011 Aug 29
In case you're trying to reach Conavista Farm, use this address now:
milkorders(at)jcis(dot)ca
Cheers!
Pascal
Co-Chapter Leader of the Ottawa Chapter of the Weston A. Price Foundation
nourishingottawa.com
milkorders(at)jcis(dot)ca
Cheers!
Pascal
Co-Chapter Leader of the Ottawa Chapter of the Weston A. Price Foundation
nourishingottawa.com
2011 Aug 29
I apologize to anyone that has tried to contact me and not received a response. We have upgraded our internet service and have a new email address which is now milkorders@jcis.ca or conavista@jcis.ca
These email addresses are checked several times a day, where the old ones I always forget about and only check every couple of months...
I am happy to answer any questions you might have about the cowshare and/or about fresh milk. We do have spaces available in our cowshare and many groups that come to the farm from Ottawa making your visits to the farm less frequent if you wish.
Jacqueline Conklin (formerly Fennell)
613-658-5876
These email addresses are checked several times a day, where the old ones I always forget about and only check every couple of months...
I am happy to answer any questions you might have about the cowshare and/or about fresh milk. We do have spaces available in our cowshare and many groups that come to the farm from Ottawa making your visits to the farm less frequent if you wish.
Jacqueline Conklin (formerly Fennell)
613-658-5876
moltar