Carmichael Admits to Sexually Harassing Women [General]

2017 Oct 25
Interesting “own it just before it hits the fan” PR approach to damage control... :(

ottawacitizen.com

This is serious stuff and I understand that it's only the tip of a big ugly iceberg in the industry.

“In light of the news, Grayson McDiarmid, a sommelier and restaurant manager and his wife, Anne-Marie McDiarmid, an event planner who both have extensive experience in the restaurant scene, have reached out to Ottawa restaurants to create a “safe restaurant list” for employers who are committed to a harassment-free workplace, and make it easier for workers to leave restaurants.”

This sounds like a great development and I'm very interested to see where they go with this, although there are good arguments to be made that an “unsafe restaurant list” might be more useful.


2017 Oct 25
This "list" idea is stupid - harassment is against the law, don't do it, period. All establishments should follow the law whether they pledge to a list or not.

2017 Oct 25
I guess the "Don't be a dick" poster at El Camino was just for customers

2017 Oct 25
Once again, I find us agreeing..

Hopefully the one good thing that comes out of it is the places that do treat their staff poorly understand it's not 1980 anymore...

I still believe that there are more good guys than bad but 'bad' always stands out..


2017 Oct 27
"This "list" idea is stupid - harassment is against the law, don't do it, period. All establishments should follow the law whether they pledge to a list or not."
And yet harassment (sexual and not) is rampant.

The point of a list is public knowledge and accountability. Harassment happens, saying "everyone should obey the law, so this isn't a problem" is pretty a facile take.

2017 Oct 27
I didn't say it's not a problem so please don't attribute that to me.

Pretty sure that people who break the law wouldn't advertise that fact unless all options were spent. This list isn't accountability - it's the veil of accountability. I can say that I'll obey the speed limit on the 401 - will everyone believe me? Does it mean that I won't speed on the 401? Had Chef Johnson from Fictional Restaurant A admitted to harassment and this list idea came up from I'm 100% sure Carmichael would've signed up too. This list is a convenient way to avoid doing anything meaningful while appearing to say all the right things.

BUT - if the listed restauranteurs get together and actively weed out the bad ones I'll happily eat my words. A list of people who say they'll comply with existing law is a far stretch from that.

2017 Oct 27
"I can say that I'll obey the speed limit on the 401 - will everyone believe me?"
People will have a greater expectation that you will and will be more disappointed when/if you fail to keep your word. That's the additional accountability. It's more damaging to your credibility if you say you won't do a bad thing and do it, then if you never said anything about it in the first place.

Assuming such a list actually gets traction it absolutely puts pressure on restaurants to ensure they're a harassment free environment. They've claimed they are and now the onus is on them to actually ensure they are and not feign ignorance after it becomes public. Currently there's not much pressure to actively police harassment and just let things slide until you simply can't anymore (most likely because of a public outing).

Sure, it's just a gesture but prospective employees are going to side-eye a potential employer if they're not on the list. There'll be customers who would opt to avoid places not on such a list, too. It wouldn't just be about finding quality employees but actual customers too, actual consequences that would hit the bottom line. Being dropped from the list would a huge PR issue for any restaurant.

The real issue is how is such a list created, maintained and administered. I suspect this sort of thing is going to fraught with issues. If it ends up in the hands of restaurant management it's a doomed endeavour.

2017 Nov 16
It is a tragedy for various harassers, molesters and rapists, but it is good that judges have finally become 'woke', as jail is the only thing that will slow these people up: (ottawacitizen.com). By the way, the restaurant has reopened under its old name and seemingly the same format but under 'new management'.

2017 Nov 19
The threat of jail may help prevent harassment indirectly by making it very clear that such behaviour is not tolerated by society in general.

Dismantling rape culture is an excruciatingly slow process that requires chipping away at a giant establishment bit by bit. Given the massive scale of the problem it's hard not to become cynical but I have faith in human progress and civilization even though we may encounter discouragingly regressive Trump-like setbacks.

2017 Nov 19
Eight, just a minor point, the restaurant never closed for any period of time & there was no intention of changing the name..

I bumped into a friend that works @ one of the 3 establishments, he said they didn't miss a beat & they didn't lose a single employee, they did the right thing by asking Carmichael to resign, he's gone, no need to punish the staff..

2017 Nov 19
Actually, the restaurant was closed for quite a long time, with a small sign in the window saying the owner was 'not feeling well', or something like that. I'd have changed the name, 'a thing for' feeling now a bit creepy.

2017 Nov 19
User "Eight" is referring to the story only he/she posted but didn't mention specifically or use any names, about Omar Fares from A Thing for Chocolate.

Everyone else is referring to Matt Carmichael / El Camino / Datsun / Riviera like the thread title suggests.

2017 Nov 19
I see, my mistake...


2017 Nov 21
Is he still part owner of these places? "Under new management" doesn't mean he is not involved in the restaurants if he is still a part owner.

2017 Nov 21
If you're referring to Matt Carmichael, he is no longer part of the organization, they severed ties in July...

I don't think Omar owned any part of 'A Thing For Chocolate' but I'd agree that keeping the name might be a mistake...

2017 Nov 21
Thanks, I was referring to Carmichael. I was aware that he was no longer actively part of day to day management but didn't know if he had completely divested ownership of the restaurants.

2017 Nov 23
this comment might come across a bit crass but I doubt that his "ownership" was of any financial significance, partly because of the fact that having a drug problem cost money and because it seems to me that a lot of the time Chefs lend their name (reputation) to a new restaurant and there are 'silent' partners behind the scenes who represent most of the financial backing. Not always the case ... also, I was told that the restaurants are part of the Prime group. (Not sure if this has always been the case, but am told this is how it is now). call me nasty gossip girl ...

2017 Nov 23
In the Citizen story about the harassment it says Riviera is part of the York Street Management group. Don’t know about the other restaurants and if they have the same affiliation or if they are with Prime but it would be tough for one owner/chef to have simultaneous ties to both (maybe?)

No doubt he has some serious financial backers, but at the same time I’d bet he’s pretty well off these days. $6+ tacos, and hundreds (if not more) per day at 2 locations. $6 steam buns and $24 curries at Datsun. Etc.