ottawa foodies

Hey folks. You've probably noticed that I've made some pretty drastic changes to the site. I've been unhappy with the look of OttawaFoodies for a couple of years now so a change was overdue.

Here's an overview of some of the changes:

* Simpler interface, more mobile-friendly.
* Larger and square thumbnails
* Improved search capability
* New cleaner navigation bar
* Red dot next to tabs with new content (when signed in)
* Decluttered comment/forum look
* Gold/Silver/Poop badge rating system for vendors
* Buzz page is now REVIEWS
* Tag page is now BROWSE (to be enhanced soon)
* ABOUT, FAQ, and WIKI links at the bottom
* Fixed tiling of thumbnails
* Out-of-business vendors now have strike-through everywhere (useful for pruning your Favourites and To Try lists)

There are lots of other little tweaks, like better mouse hover tooltips, some less gaudy colours, improved alignment of UI components. I've moved to horizontal Google ads as they are more mobile-friendly. Thanks for your patience with those.

Please do let me know if you encounter any major errors or strange behaviour. It's hard to make a change this large without breaking something.

First thoughts :

shocking. but not necessarily bad.

"reviews" and "browse" make WAAAAAAAYYYYYY more sense than "Buzz" and "Tags"

Will let you know more as I experience it

I don't like seeing "Reviews" in red - I assume that means I have stuff unread in there. I never go there anyway so I don't really care.

How do I get my poop badge?

Yeah I don't like the red either. I'll be choosing something a little more subtle. I think a little badge next to the navigation link would be more tasteful.

You can't get a poop badge! It's only for vendors with negative ratings. And it's more like bronze than poop. :P

Nice looking - keep up the good work!

I like the new look - it reminds me of the Drupal theme "Zen", which is one of my favorites.

I don't like fixed-width, but I think it was always like that no? Fixed width basically goes against the whole "thing" of the web, which is to allow the user to define their own experience. Or at least it was originally until everyone started thumbing their noses at that aspect of it.

Even on my smallish monitor here at home there is a lot of wasted space to the left and right. On my massive one at work this is going to look ridiculous.

I like that you can click on a picture on the main page and it takes you to that review.

since you took away our thumbs down.....can we give people poop badges instead?

I miss the large photographs at the top, behind the OttawaFoodies title. The top of the page is pretty stark now. Otherwise though, I think it looks great.

Thumbs down is a major mistake. Thumbs UP on my comments proves it. Make it right.

I liked being able to vote a thumbs-down; I'm a little disappointed that it's gone. However, I don't know if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with Bobby Fillet - the wording confuses me :P

Another thing that seems to be gone is the option of looking at the list of restaurants by ranking. It used to be possible by clicking on "Vendors" on the right side bar from the home page. Is there still a way to view that list? You know how the internet LOVES rankings lists...

Sorry, it appears that I left out a word...haha. "Removing thumbs down...." is what I meant.

I love the new site! And the letters "look" bigger which are alot easier on my middle-aged eyes-;)

My only two beefs:

1. No more "thumbs down" button.

2. The red dots beside the links with unread topics. It's not obvious at first (to me anyway) what the red dots are for.

Fresh Foodie Just another suggestion: Since we don't seem to have the "Who's online" option anymore I was wondering if you would consider putting something at the bottom of the home page like "Who's online: 0 guests, Joe Blow, Jane Doe, etc."? For nosey parkers like me-;)

Pssst Qster... you can still view the ranked Vendor list here: ottawafoodies.com/top :-)

Top Vendors is one of the items I will be placing on the BROWSE page soon.

Pasta lover I'm really trying to keep the home page free of clutter but I agree it's nice to see who the recent visitors are. Let me figure something out.

Thanks for the comments so far everyone!

I like the new look, less busy and less clutter.

As many organizations are installing firewalls and blocking certain pages, the more clutter, pop-ups etc., really make looking something up quickly a pain so this is refreshing for me (not a trend fan).

Site looks really good!

Wondering if I am the only one getting 2011 post when I click on the Review option?

Also, can we get a Tag for Food trucks?

Wheresdafood we do have a tag for food trucks: ottawafoodies.com/tag/7

You couldn't find it because I inadvertently left off a column of tags on the BROWSE page. Fixed now. :)

If you are seeing posts from 2011 when you click REVIEWS it likely means you haven't caught up on reviews for a while. Click the "Mark ALL comments as read" button at the bottom of the page to skip over the last couple years.

I really like the new look, both on my phone and home computer. Nice and clean and uncluttered.

I do miss the thumbs-down icon but I understand the reasons for getting rid of it. No big deal either way for me.

Good work!

Hotlinks not showing up as different from regular text.

e.g. first post in this thread : Forum - Artisan toast...

The hotlink just looks like regular text to me.

Thanks.. fixed now!

Looks great to me! No thumbs down? Who cares! Simple, clean layout. Easy to read. Great!

Will there be a "New Forum Activity" button? Or is there one and I just can't see it?

There will be a red dot beside the word "Forum" at the top. Then just click the word "Forum"

EDIT: the previous red blob may have been a bit overstated, but I think the red dot (or whatever colour it is) is somewhat understated because I have trouble telling it from a piece of schmutz on my screen

No great advice, I just want to say that I like the clean look . . .

so

I like the clean look.

OK Back to work everyone.

Thanks, Zym. I see it now but you sure need to know it's there or you'll miss it. Mind, had I read FF's opening post, I MIGHT have found it. The old eyes aren't what they used to be.............

I love the changes, I thought something was broken with the formatting when it loaded instantaneously on my iPad, which used to take forever!

Do you mind if I ask what the back end is? I'm on the exec of a charity that uses SMF and the theme we have isn't great for mobile and allot of our modules break if we update the code...

I'm interested to know more about this gold/silver/poop badge rating system.

Stuart S the back end is CherryPy for HTTP and SqlObject for database access. Everything else I coded directly. The balance of performance and maintainability has scaled well over the years.

I'm not a web developer by trade. I currently write embedded realtime software and have experience with scientific application software. Anyone with a lead on a cool job should get in touch. Thanks. :-)

I agree, the site performs well on my android phone and windows based PC's, but for some reason loading and navigating was always slow on iPad. The new iteration is much faster on iPad!

The new layout/font/wording is definitely much improved with the exception of the lack of 'thumbs down' and the fact that we can still only edit our last post. We should be able to edit any post and of course be able to flick a thumbs down to save time and controversy.

Recent changes:

* Hugely improved vendor rating calculation, the top vendors list finally makes sense (see BROWSE tab).

* Inline food/vendor connection voting. You can now register your thumbs up or down for a food at a vendor without refreshing the whole page.

* Food/vendor votes are now weighted based on a number of factors, including age of the vote. This keeps new places fresher. If there's a vendor you feel is underrepresented, try refreshing your vote by "un"clicking your thumbs up and reclicking it.

* Hearts instead of thumbs for comments. Spread the love, kids! <3

* BROWSE by Tag now lists vendors in descending order of rating.

As always, let me know if you run into anything strange. Thanks!

You also added the blue highlight to "Later unread topic" which is very helpful.

But ... hearts? Really?

Touch (click) my heart if you like the hearts.

Otherwise give me a thumbs down.

Yeah, hearts.
I guess you'll have to change your avatar now.

BTW I don't see any way to register thumbs down for a food or vendor - have not since the upgrade. What am I missing?

That shouldn't have changed... Is anyone else not seeing thumbs up/down off to the right of a vendor or a food/vendor connection? Foods alone never had thumbs up or down (just a favourites star).

For example, if you visit Hung Sum you should see the thumbs to the right of Hung Sum and also to the right of Dim Sum. If you don't, please let me know which web browser you're using.

Oh, OK, I see that. Just not on the foods - which I guess is supposed to be the case.

When I saw the hearts, to me they looked completely separate from the number indicating 'thumbs up' so I assumed the hearts meant something completely different and were there in addition to the thumbs up numbers. Maybe the number can be in the heart?

And on a separate note, I have to say I miss the food picture banner behind the words Ottawa Foodies at the top of the site. It's a very clean look, but food pictures are always so nice on the eyes.

But in the grand scheme of things, I really like the new look. Great job, Fresh Foodie!

Almost everything is an improvement. Cleaner look is top improvement. The hearts are not a good option at all, IMO. If you're going to rob us of a quick disagreement button, at least make the agreement button something we all can appreciate. Make it a burger or a happy face. The heart is not the answer. Thumbs up/down worked all this time and worked for Siskel and Ebert for many years without a complaint....why mess with success? You've seen many complaints/comments regarding the lack of options since removing the thumbs down, but never/rarely received complaints before the change, so why? Friendlier option? I don't think so. What's American Idol without Simon Cowell? Soon to be cancelled....

And he hasn't really given us an solid example of what was wrong with the thumbs down. There was some mention of it creating discord - but no examples of where that actually happened. And lots of counter examples of where it did not.

And if it is going to be just a big love-fest, when is the first Ottawa Foodies orgy?

"hearts" for that Zym! LOL

The purple bars at top and bottom look good ... I think those are new in the last couple hours?

Appears to be new, and comments on other topics, yet no "thumbs" response. Hmm.

Oh, I really don't like the hearts, they are a bit twee. Thumbs up for most everything else.

In honour of the new all-love, all-the-time Ottawa Foodies, complete with cute little hearts, I have changed my avatar to a unicorn with rainbows shooting out his ass!

You may need to do SHIFT-reload to see it ...

Nice, it suits you Zym! Did you pick the background colour yourself? It's like Pinky Pie meets Rainbow Dash! :D

I was going to joke about "my other site, Ottawa Bronies" but I googled it and it's real. rainbowdash.net Can't make this stuff up!

See, don't complain about the hearts. I *could* replace the custom avatars with choose-your-colour pony icons! But I wont, because I think card suits are a little more mainstream than ponies. ♥

So it's been a little while now with no thumbs down... not missing it at all, and yes, I used it before. Out of sight (site) out of mind. Hugs for everyone.

I just join the site and I like what I see so far. One question - is there a way to search the forum topics. I'd like to be able to find out if any questions I might have were already discussed.

CleanEater, you can search the entire site--including the forums--via the search bar at the top of each page. You can use the word 'forum' in your search to target the forum: 'forum craft beer'

Thanks for my LOL moment this morning Zymurgist. Although I loved your thumbs up chain mail glove.

If you look back in this thread, some messages do not have a line between them.

Between the hearts and Zymurgist's new avatar, this is all starting to look a lot like an episode of My Little Pony. Thumbs up for the unicorn. Thumbs down for the hearts. (Sorry Fresh Foodie. Like all the other changes though!)

Some of the search items point to dev.ottawafoodies.com which throws up all kinds of warnings and could be troublesome for the uninitiated.

Thanks for letting me know, Rizak. I'll see if I can set the search up to ignore those.

[EDIT: Done. Let me know if you see anything else like that!]

Hi FF! Love the Changes. But have a question. When I search for a restaurant I know has been reviewed, to add my comments, the search goes to a google search, rather than this site. How do I add to reviews? (Even framing the question was a challenge for this Luddite!! Hope you get what I mean!)

southshoregirl, the google search is a custom google search that only looks at this site. So if you search for a restaurant it should give you the link to that restaurant's page right here on OttawaFoodies. I hope that makes sense to you.

The other, less obvious, way to search is to use my old built-in search capability by going to the REVIEWS page and clicking "+Add vendor or food". Given your question, I'll see if I can make that search more prominently available again. For most purposes the custom google search is superior to my built-in one.

I had the same problem when looking for 'Wiches Cauldron. I eventually gave up using the google search and went to my profile to find it as I knew I had commented on it before.

When I type "wiches" into the Google search bar at the top of this page and hit enter, it immediately finds 'Wiches Cauldron. Is that not working for some of you?

Works for me. Then you just click on it and it takes you there.

Where did the mosaic of pictures on the home page go? I really liked that!

ProsciuttoEggSammie, the picture tiles are now at the top of the REVIEWS page. My wife reeeeally wanted me to limit the main page to a small number of the best photos. And I trust her good taste. :P

FF, I just typed in 'wiches and got 'wiches cauldron. When I typed in 'wiches cauldron I got nothing. Are we to type in only the first name of whatever we are looking for?

Felinefan, searching for either Wiches or Wiches cauldron worked for me, as you'd expect. When autocorrect on my tablet changed the spelling to Witches with a 't' it yielded no results. :) did that happen to you too?

Speaking of somebody who gave a lot of thumbs-down to people, I'm really digging having only hearts to give out. It forces people to explain their stance, rather than knee-jerk NO U R WRONGing them ;)

Sandrinha, I tried it again using both wiches and wiches cauldron with and without the ' and I don't know what the problem was when I tried it before but it now works perfectly.

Loving the new format here...

I like the new 1st post for this user in red. But I noticed today that smoker guy is tagged as a new user. And he's not.

Thanks for pointing that out, lovetoeat. The "1st post" indicator is not sensible in the forums. I fixed it, and it should now only show up in the vendor/food comments (where, indeed, Smoker Guy has only posted once).

Some of you have asked how I plan to fill the gap the "thumbs down" feature left, marking single-poster comments as potentially suspect is a good start. I'll be phasing in other, more manual, markers in the future. e.g. "Possible shill"

Fresh Foodie If I may offer my two cents:

I don't really like the format for "1st post for this user" too much because it is written in caps lock and in red. I feel like I am being shouted at...

I also noticed that BUSSS has that "1st post..." comment below their name and they have had an account for awhile Are users going to get that comment when they write their first review? Because some people contribute mostly to the forum and don't write so many reviews...

Well, at least the lack of 'thumbs down' is a gap....

So, instead of trying to build a better mouse trap, how about you re-add the thumbs down feature? I've seen much more support for than against, and really, it just worked.

Happy Friday!!

Or at least give us a more concrete reason for removing it so we'll understand ... you said it has proven itself to be disruptive to the site, but have not provided any evidence for such a conclusion.

C'mon FF! It makes us feel like the bad boys...explanations for everything but the thumbs down...not like you to snub your peeps...

So here is an example of where the loss of the thumbs down is a major fail.

I would like very much to thumbs down a recent post in the forums that has nothing to do with food and is soliciting medical help. I happen to know the poster somewhat and think he is a fantastic person and as far as I know him I really don't have enough good to say about him. But here I am with my only option to express displeasure in such an off-topic post being to out myself in such a way as I am currently doing.

Not cool ...

Great example! In this tight knit community, there are many more in the same boat....

p.s. I think it is a great cause ( I personally donate some $20K per year in kind to stem cell research ), and if I were not over 35 I'd go to see whether I could help.

He doesn't need to justify, argue, defend or explain his position - it's his website, I feel like we are beating a dead horse.

No he does not - I've already said that and I believe it firmly.

However, if he wants his users to understand his decision, he does have to explain it more than he has done. Because right now all we have is "trust me, this is bad"

EDIT: I'm open minded. I'm willing to be convinced. If I am convinced, I'll shut up. Right now, I have nothing to convince me

True. It's his. Dead horse? Or dedicated members ignored?

Chimi! C'mon! Dead horse that he's ignoring daily users? His wife likes the lack of thumbs down? Like any/very other site, it's run by it's users. I am on every single day, as is Zym. Zym and I aren't buds. We don't agree, on anything aside from martial arts, and even then, it's a different art! FF has ignored our concerns and comments but has provided feedback to others....

I'll add this much with regard to it being run its users :

About 15 years ago I started an online community for local Ottawa homebrewers. Today it has over 400 active members, which I think is pretty impressive.

For some 12 of those 15 years I was the sole "owner" and manager of the community. Until one day when I made a grave mistake in how I managed the community. Almost immediately I regretted my mistake, apologized to everyone, and then handed the community over to a board of governors and relinquished 100% of my control of it to them. Precisely because I had realised that the community belonged to them, not to me.

Thumbs up Zym!

Oh, and thumbs down Chimi! I agree with 80% of what you say (i click thumbs up)...but disagree with 20% (thumbs down)....

Let me just say that I had the unique ability to see exactly who was giving thumbs down. In some cases, I felt that thumbs down were unjustified. They turned out to be a tool *for* bullies rather than against them. Once I realized this it was clear to me that my thumbs-down venture had failed.

If you want to be an a**hole, now you can't do it anonymously and you have to explain yourself. I think that's a pretty good compromise.

OK, so how many people did we have that were using the tool to bully?

And more importantly - given how heavily weighted the site already was against the thumbs down, do you think the person being bullied actually had any idea they were being bullied?

If there were only a couple of people bullying, and especially if the person being bullied really had no idea (which I suspect), then I would say that's not a compromise that is a knee-jerk reaction.

EDIT: I'll add this much : I've seen instances myself where people thumbed me down unjustly, and I happened to catch them just after they'd done it so by using the "who is logged on" feature I was able to tell who did it. And I think they just wanted to thumbs down anything I said. So ... big deal? If there are only a few people doing that then isn't this throwing the baby out with the bath water?

I may miss giving a thumbs down to all the posts by Zym, but I won't badger, or should I say, bully the owner of this site into explaining his decisions.

If I don't like the rules (and their explanations) of the sandbox, I take my shovel and pail and go find another sandbox to play in.

Back to the topic of what might be broken under the new look, I was just looking at another thread that had embedded videos, and it looks like they no longer work. Here is a test with my home made creamed corn video

Video works for me but only when I manually reload the page.

(IOS 7.1 on an iPhone.)

Well, I was an asshole and I explained myself quite well when the necessity arose.

Haters gonna be all upset, regardless.

I always thought the thumbs down option on other reviewers was unnecessary, peoples opinions are just that, there is no right or wrong...