"Foodie" vs. "Gourmet"/"Gourmand" [General]
2006 Nov 26
Over the last few weeks I've been participating in the food forum on craigslist.com. WOW that place is brutal. It doesn't matter how I word my post or how polite I try to be, there's someone there waiting to rain on my parade. And forget about mentioning canned anything or packaged anything. The food snobs will tear you down! Yes, I love to use natural ingredients as much as possible, but sometimes you just don't have the time. Call me sensitive but it's just not fun. They say "ignore the trolls and haters", I'd rather just ignore the entire site and post here instead.
The local feel is much more warm and inviting. I'm happy this place is here. I hope it continues to be pleasant and more people join in so we can get lots of opinions from a variety of tastes.
Just my 2 cents.
The local feel is much more warm and inviting. I'm happy this place is here. I hope it continues to be pleasant and more people join in so we can get lots of opinions from a variety of tastes.
Just my 2 cents.
2006 Nov 26
The opposite to the CL food forum, then, must be the Food & Drink section on Yahoo! Answers.
Articles of faith include the idea that "allrecipes.com" is the best recipe site going.
I remain baffled by that. It is _entertaining_ -- and I like reviews of "bad" foods for similar reasons, though allrecipes.com goes well beyond somewhat tongue-in-cheek write-ups on the best way to make KD. It has a recipe for baby food made with Campbell's Cream of Mushroom.
allrecipes.com
Never mind the piles and piles of recipes that're nothing but opening cans (and, frequently, frozen hash browns), and cans of really inedible stuff, and frosting that mush off with potato chip "topping."
I got curious about the phenomenon, especially given that those recipes really do get a pile of "My hubby loved it!! I added extra Velveeta for the kids, and that worked out well, and now it's a family favourite!!" comments.
I went back to Yahoo! Answers, and asked if there was a way to gentrify white trash casserole. Fresh potatoes, a white sauce and mushrooms in lieu of Campbell's, something fresh, etc? I did not get overly informative replies, but, at their essence, they were "Nope -- those sorts of ingredients have to be those sorts of ingredients."
And now I'm off to make Lipton Noodles & Sauce (sorry, "Sidekicks"), in the parmesan pesto variety. With: extra pesto, chopped artichoke hearts, plum tomatoes, and broccoli, and parmigiano-reggiano. No, I don't know why I don't skip the Lipton entirely. I am clearly not above adulterating prepared foods, though.
Anyway, about those Lipton noodles: y'know how the directions for most call for 1 cup of water, 1 cup of milk?
In the US, the exact same ones call for 1 1/2 cups water, 1/2 cup milk.
!!!
Baffling...!!
(I apologise for having gone so far off topic.)
Articles of faith include the idea that "allrecipes.com" is the best recipe site going.
I remain baffled by that. It is _entertaining_ -- and I like reviews of "bad" foods for similar reasons, though allrecipes.com goes well beyond somewhat tongue-in-cheek write-ups on the best way to make KD. It has a recipe for baby food made with Campbell's Cream of Mushroom.
allrecipes.com
Never mind the piles and piles of recipes that're nothing but opening cans (and, frequently, frozen hash browns), and cans of really inedible stuff, and frosting that mush off with potato chip "topping."
I got curious about the phenomenon, especially given that those recipes really do get a pile of "My hubby loved it!! I added extra Velveeta for the kids, and that worked out well, and now it's a family favourite!!" comments.
I went back to Yahoo! Answers, and asked if there was a way to gentrify white trash casserole. Fresh potatoes, a white sauce and mushrooms in lieu of Campbell's, something fresh, etc? I did not get overly informative replies, but, at their essence, they were "Nope -- those sorts of ingredients have to be those sorts of ingredients."
And now I'm off to make Lipton Noodles & Sauce (sorry, "Sidekicks"), in the parmesan pesto variety. With: extra pesto, chopped artichoke hearts, plum tomatoes, and broccoli, and parmigiano-reggiano. No, I don't know why I don't skip the Lipton entirely. I am clearly not above adulterating prepared foods, though.
Anyway, about those Lipton noodles: y'know how the directions for most call for 1 cup of water, 1 cup of milk?
In the US, the exact same ones call for 1 1/2 cups water, 1/2 cup milk.
!!!
Baffling...!!
(I apologise for having gone so far off topic.)
2006 Nov 26
I actually like allrecipes.com because you can "search by ingredient", helps clear out the fridge and pantry of stuff that might never get used, and it has a function to convert the proportions to serving sizes, for example if a recipe makes 6 servings, you can key in 2 and it will calculate the proper measurements for you. Very handy since I cook for 2 most of the time. I'm sure other recipe sites have those features, but I've yet to come across one as extensive. I also find they have alot of photos of the finished product which I think is very helpful.
But yeah, Yahoo Answers is pretty much useless, as is CL, unless you have very thick skin, a degree in cullinary arts and/or don't like to post very often.
But yeah, Yahoo Answers is pretty much useless, as is CL, unless you have very thick skin, a degree in cullinary arts and/or don't like to post very often.
2006 Nov 26
I tend to agree with Mark's (and Wikipedia's) definition of foodie and the difference between a foodie and a gourmand. I tend to think of myself as a foodie and many of my friends are also foodies. This means that we appreciate some of the best gourmet restaurants in town, but we also love to grab a slice of pizza or something from a good greasy spoon every so often.
Those who tend towards only gourmet rather than just 'good eats' are really missing out on something! There is more to food experience than the best foie gras or black truffles money can buy. I really think that such foods as burgers, fries, grilled cheese, pizza, fried chicken, nachos (etc!) are a part of our culture and there is a certain 'comfort' attached to these foods. While the gourmet might turn their nose up at those foods, a foodie embraces them and seeks out the best local places that provide them.
This is why I believe a foodie can still appreciate the big chains and the foods they provide. Sure, I do strongly believe you should support local businesses and that often they *do* provide the best 'good eats' in town, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a cup of Tims coffee while on a road trip, or some McD's fries while out with friends. A foodie will eat these things knowing it's more the memory attached to the food that makes it especially good, rather than the quality. A gourmet simply wouldn't eat it (or at least, not without some show of their distaste for the food).
Those who tend towards only gourmet rather than just 'good eats' are really missing out on something! There is more to food experience than the best foie gras or black truffles money can buy. I really think that such foods as burgers, fries, grilled cheese, pizza, fried chicken, nachos (etc!) are a part of our culture and there is a certain 'comfort' attached to these foods. While the gourmet might turn their nose up at those foods, a foodie embraces them and seeks out the best local places that provide them.
This is why I believe a foodie can still appreciate the big chains and the foods they provide. Sure, I do strongly believe you should support local businesses and that often they *do* provide the best 'good eats' in town, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a cup of Tims coffee while on a road trip, or some McD's fries while out with friends. A foodie will eat these things knowing it's more the memory attached to the food that makes it especially good, rather than the quality. A gourmet simply wouldn't eat it (or at least, not without some show of their distaste for the food).
2006 Nov 26
I agree with your post...but the point is, enjoying or craving Tim's or Mcd's doesn't mean its good eats... perhaps thats where the wires have crossed? I know many gourmet's that will eat Mcd's due to a craving, doesn't mean they think its good eats, they would just rather go for quality good comfort food, from a local or smaller chain.
2006 Nov 26
"I know many gourmet's that will eat Mcd's due to a craving, doesn't mean they think its good eats, they would just rather go for quality good comfort food, from a local or smaller chain."
See, I disagree with this. By my thought (and that's all it is; after all, the definitions of foodie vs gourmet are really a matter of opinion) a gourmet wouldn't ever eat that sort of food. They might go for steak au poivre with frites but they'd never go to McD's, because they consider it just bad food, period. A foodie would go there because they do have a specific craving and for that moment in time, it is 'good eats', because it cures the craving for a childhood favourite/old college hangout memory/whatever. However, by my thinking, the foodie would admit fully that McD's isn't quality and, as you said in another thread, "it is what it is".
In the interest of 'full disclosure', I'm not one of the people who voted for McD's fries as the best in Ottawa. I haven't decided yet who does have the best fries!
Anyhow, once again, just my thoughts on it, certainly not to be taken as the ultimate authority on the topic, haha! ;)
See, I disagree with this. By my thought (and that's all it is; after all, the definitions of foodie vs gourmet are really a matter of opinion) a gourmet wouldn't ever eat that sort of food. They might go for steak au poivre with frites but they'd never go to McD's, because they consider it just bad food, period. A foodie would go there because they do have a specific craving and for that moment in time, it is 'good eats', because it cures the craving for a childhood favourite/old college hangout memory/whatever. However, by my thinking, the foodie would admit fully that McD's isn't quality and, as you said in another thread, "it is what it is".
In the interest of 'full disclosure', I'm not one of the people who voted for McD's fries as the best in Ottawa. I haven't decided yet who does have the best fries!
Anyhow, once again, just my thoughts on it, certainly not to be taken as the ultimate authority on the topic, haha! ;)
2006 Nov 28
I had a grandfather who was something of a gourmet. He was very, very well-travelled, well-educated, and well-off, and it was...sort of fun, really. I'd see him and get to try things that were bizarre at the time, like home-made pesto* and soba noodles and so on.
But I cringed at his fierce pride over never having eaten at a McDonald's.
Then again.
Whenever we saw him, we usually had one meal that was pretty much just fries. He'd use the best sort of potato, make good work of chopping them just so, and then fry and re-fry and so on. (Nowadays, I realise he must've been to Belgium.) An absolute delight that would make McFries seem truly awful.
It's a fine line.
I propose a third category, viz: "foodbag." You know: the I-love-food types who just shovel it in no matter what it is, and think any sort of discernment is reprehensible food snobbery.
A foodbag, despite liking to eat, would not:
-- linger over a menu
-- use Google image search to look at food porn
-- go to a greengrocer's, a cheesemonger's, etc
-- be caught dead in a 'fine dining' place, because of the prices and portion sizes
-- find it even worth comment that Belgian frites might be better than McFries
But I cringed at his fierce pride over never having eaten at a McDonald's.
Then again.
Whenever we saw him, we usually had one meal that was pretty much just fries. He'd use the best sort of potato, make good work of chopping them just so, and then fry and re-fry and so on. (Nowadays, I realise he must've been to Belgium.) An absolute delight that would make McFries seem truly awful.
It's a fine line.
I propose a third category, viz: "foodbag." You know: the I-love-food types who just shovel it in no matter what it is, and think any sort of discernment is reprehensible food snobbery.
A foodbag, despite liking to eat, would not:
-- linger over a menu
-- use Google image search to look at food porn
-- go to a greengrocer's, a cheesemonger's, etc
-- be caught dead in a 'fine dining' place, because of the prices and portion sizes
-- find it even worth comment that Belgian frites might be better than McFries
warby
It seems that mainstream media might have hijacked the term "Foodie" in the past half year as a more trendy replacement for "Gourmet." This detracts from the true definition of a foodie!
I like Ann Zuccardy's opinion article here (ezinearticles.com):
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I first heard the term "foodie" from a European friend who used it to describe himself about 20 years ago. Grocery shopping with this man was a delight. He’d lift a plump cantaloupe in the market, squeeze it gently, sniff it and joyfully proclaim it ripe, while gazing at it reverently. In the meat section of the market, he’d paw through the beef until he found the most perfectly marbled steak of the bunch. (“Not too lean, you need a little fat to give it flavor,” he’d say.) He’d hold the package as if cradling a newborn baby and declare it “gorgeous.” To this suburban middle class American girl who grew up in the 1960s and '70s on Rice-a-Roni, white bread, casseroles made with cream of mushroom soup, and Velveeta, all this hoo-ha about food was initially, well... bizarre, to me.
...
The way I see it, becoming a foodie doesn’t have so much to do with your ability to cook, or your penchant for fancy gourmet food, but rather your openness to all food experiences and your willingness to partake in the great banquet of life by surrounding yourself with people and sharing food you love. It’s about balance, too. This foodie enjoys her once-a-year Big Mac or the occasional Ring Ding just as much as she enjoyed the osso bucco, foie gras, and tuna tartare she ate last weekend at a trendy eatery. And yes, this foodie will always love the comfort food she grew up on (Campbell’s Tomato Soup with Ritz Crackers, anyone?) because it evokes beautiful memories of cold winter days spent playing in the snow, breaking only for a warm lunch before playing some more.
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That's pretty much it. A foodie is a person who LOVES GOOD FOOD, without any restrictions on the word "good."
A foodie can be a lover of "good" gourmet food (but not "bad" gourmet food). The difference here is that "good" food is highly subjective whereas "gourmet" food is not. I could list all the gourmet restaurants in Ottawa -- that doesn't make them automatically good.
These are my thoughts. What are yours? :)