Milk habits [Food/Vendor]

2007 May 31
This topic is a response to kmennie's posting in the Eating Rituals topic (where the discussion got kind of focused on milk).

I buy 3 kinds of milk every week. Organic 1% for wifey, who is nursing our newborn. Organic homo for our 2 year-old. And the cheapest, mass-produced, hormone-laden 1% for me.

Since organics only come in small sizes, and we go through a lot of it, I buy around 12L in 7 or 8 different cartons. The organic stuff is almost $3/L. (Brutal.)

As it's a major part of our grocery bill, anyone know whether organic milk is a waste of money?

2007 May 31
Last I checked, bovine growth hormone is prohibited for use in Canada, hence I'd like to point out an error in your statement there, unless you're buying milk from the USA (rBGH was approved for use in the USA by the FDA). The pseudo-legitimate concern you may have would be over antibiotics being present in your milk, and perhaps the treatment of the cows in a milk production facility. There are regulations in place (CFIA enforced, I believe) regarding the presence of antibiotics in dairy (ie, if there are antibiotics found, the dairy supply containing said antibiotics is destroyed). I think the only legitimate concern over the dairy supply in Canada would be the factory farming element at play, and what the cows are being fed. If the extra money is worth your (or perhaps your wife's) peace of mind, go for it!

2007 May 31
And does anyone know exactly what those "milk beverage" drinks contain?

A few years ago I seem to recall an article in the newspaper regarding a brand (Lactancia maybe?) of this milk beverage having to change their labeling because it was too similar to their milk labels. I wondered then what could possibly be a "milk beverage".

As I said in a previous statement, milk only goes with certain things. Breakfast being one of them. Cookies. In coffee. Thats about it.

2007 May 31
Yeah, I'd think there might be better ways to spend your $3/litre, unless a possibly false peace of mine is worth it (which it sometimes is).

On a side note, regarding 'mass produced milk'.. I've sometimes purchased milk that had a flavour I can only describe as 'grainy'. Grain as in wheat or barley, not as in a sandy texture. In my head I'd imagined it came from a cow that was somehow not 'processing' their food as much, and thus the milk was flavoured like their feed. Anyone else noticed this taste? I've noticed it more on 2% and below, and on the cheaper options (i.e. not Pur Filtre).

2007 May 31
P-I-O, the difference in flavour is likely attributed to whatever the cows were being fed.

2007 May 31
Umamiman, Chimichimi is correct BTW... there are no hormones in Canadian milk. Our cows are not given BGH. I learned this within the last couple of years too and was sort of blown away, since word on the street is that you need organic milk to avoid hormones. Not so... only in the US!

Dairy farmers do a lot of advertising and have plenty of clout with the gub'ment. It would be an amazing coincidence if perfectly balanced nutrition for a baby cow turned out to be an ideal food for an adult human, so take all that "it does a body good" stuff with a grain of salt. I believe moderation is key with animal products in general, and I prefer to get my dairy from partially digested milk products like yogurt and cheese. Not only does it taste better -- it's friendlier to your digestive system. ;-)

...oh, and milk chocolate too!

2007 May 31
I get mine at Costco and it comes out cheaper then $3/L...

2007 Jun 4
About that 'milk only goes with certain things' -- you forgot spaghetti!

2007 Jun 5
Ewwww spaghetti and milk! Wine goes with spaghetti. Well, at least, my spaghetti. lol

Our butter is better than the States as well (better being a relative term), in that ours is allowed to go through fermentation. Makes for creamier butter.

I will say though, that the absolute best commercial chocolate milk I have ever tried comes from Coopers General Store in Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania.

And I must say they smoke a pretty mean bacon in Vermont, but we still make the best maple syrup!

2007 Jun 5
I am of the "milk is a delicious thirst-quencher that goes with everything" team. I stay away from soda pop for health reasons, and I don't drink alcohol with every meal obviously, plus I'm not crazy about water, so it is really milk vs. juice for most meals- and I find milk usually wins.


2007 Jun 5
I'm in the "I drink over 8 glasses of water a day crowd" (for health reasons). I rarely drink pop, although it does go with some things (cheeseburger and fries) and I drink orange or grapefruit juice by the gallon in the morning. Water always wins with me and I am known to my camping friends as Water B*tch. But its all good.

2007 Jun 7
Call me crazy but milk goes great with Chinese food (the Canadian version of course, jasmine tea for the real stuff). I am also with the 'milk goes with everything' crowd. It is refreshing and filling if you are eating a light meal. Although, I drink mostly water for health reasons (no fat or sugars). And when water or milk won't do, there's always wine!!


2007 Jun 9
I don't touch the stuff anymore because of health reasons (I have Crohn's Disease, and one of the competing theories for the cause of it is that there's a bacteria in milk called Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis that survives pasteurization and causes Crohn's), but god, I miss it dearly, especially with baked goods.

I compensate by drinking large quantities of vodka with lime juice and water instead, which I'm convinced is the beverage of champions :D. Hey, it fends off scurvy!

2007 Jun 10
There ARE hormones in milk!

FDA's Sept. 24 letter to a Sauk Centre, Minn., dairy, for instance, informed the chief manager that the dairy's products are misbranded because its labels "contain the statement 'No Hormones,' which is false." The agency's contention is that naturally occurring hormones are present in all milk and milk products. Indeed, the warning letter charged, "milk cannot be produced in a way that renders it free of hormones." Even a mother's milk is laced with natural hormones. www.sciencenews.org

"Among the routes of human exposure to estrogens, we are mostly concerned about cow's milk, which contains considerable amounts of female sex hormones," Ganmaa told her audience. Dairy, she added, accounts for 60 percent to 80 percent of estrogens consumed. www.news.harvard.edu

and FYI the estrogen from animals behaves like human estrogen (thus for menopause will be prescribed Premarin consisting primarily of conjugated estrogens isolated from mare's urine (PREgnant MARes' urINe)) and BTW the PHYTOestrogen that is found in soy is much weaker, but completes with the stronger estogen at receptor sites.

2007 Jun 10
That's the US. I think you'll find that untrue for Canada.

2007 Jun 10
Yeah vaalea, both of your websites are American and the first website talks about a place in Minnesota.
This is off an American site, but still:

"Why is American Milk Banned in Europe?

* American dairy milk is genetically-modified unless it’s labeled “NO rBGH”
* Genetically-engineered bovine growth hormone (rBGH) in milk increases cancer risks.

American dairy farmers inject rBGH to dairy cows to increase milk production.

European nations and Canada have banned rBGH to protect citizens from IGF-1 hazards."

I doubt anyone wants to take a chance against the Canadian Government and risk losing their farm for a higher milk yield, although I am sure it goes on, unfortunately. Oh well.

2007 Jun 10
I see what vaalea is getting at. She's not referring to BGH, she's referring to naturally-occurring estrogens and other steroid hormones. There are also naturally-occurring hormones in human breast milk.

I've seen conflicting information as to whether or not these levels of hormones are dangerous when consumed by humans. Also, the levels of hormones may differ from country to country, depending on when and how often cows are milked.

2007 Jun 10
Yep, she's right. And in fact, rBGH is just a synthetic version of naturally-occurring BGH, which exists in all cow's milk anyway (it promotes milk production in the cow as well as growth of the calf).

So, yes the USA allows hormones to be *added* to cow's milk but Canada does not. Nobody can prevent the naturally-occurring hormones from existing in the milk. This is what I hinted at in my comments earlier. Milk is a glandular secretion from a mammal, which has evolved specifically to allow a newborn calf to grow. Any claims that it is a great food for humans seem questionable to me.

2007 Jun 12
I think what might be more salient, would be what are the levels of such hormones in cow's milk, versus human milk? I do not know, but I think there would only be cause for concern if cow's milk naturally had much more hormone?

2007 Jun 13
That might be a useful question if human milk were a good food for adults. But is it? I'm not at all sure...

2007 Jun 13
But us darn caucasians (most of us) lost our genetic 'adult onset lactose intolerance' and that milk is so darn yummy! From the hormonal side, it was my impression that infants are sensitive to imbalances of sex hormones (i.e. too much estrogen for a boy, etc) and if they are ok drinking milk, then the hormones there cannot be present in very high, or very transferrable levels? ( I must inform that I am an unabashed milk junkie, so my opinions and statements are suspect...)

2007 Jun 16
Speaking of estrogen, last year in biology, my teacher told us that a University in England or Ireland, I'm not sure, did a study on the link between plastic and estrogen, and they found that when plastic is heated up in a microwave, it releases a chemical that has the same makeup as human estrogen, and the body thinks it's the estrogen hormone. So beware, never microwave plastic containers with food in it (Ziploc, Rubbermaid, Tupperware, etc). Instead, try using a microwave safe dish, like a Corningware or Pyrex ramekin. I thought that tidbit of info was somewhat relevant to our milk discussion.

Here's a couple links:

www.center4research.org

www.foodsafety.gov