Paleo [General]

2011 Apr 19
This is a placeholder because I have to go to bed for a 5am shift tomorrow.

Anyone who knows anything about Paleo eating can fill in the blanks until I get back. :-)

Google will get you quite a bit.

I know a number of people doing this and it seems to work well.

The theory is that it is the diet that humans evolved to eat.

2011 Apr 19
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2011 Apr 20
I started to eat similarly (without ever hearing of Paleo) back in 2006. I don't stick to it religiously, but I would guess 90% of my meals (and consequently at least half of my family's meals) fit within the specific definition of Paleo. I would say my diet slants more to the low glycemic-load diet, which dovetails nicely with Paleo.

My journey began as one of weight loss, not gluten-intolerance. Although, with advancing age, I am finding that my gut is increasingly sensitive to "bad" foods. I wonder if it is linked purely to age or if my diet is decreasing my tolerance.

I am not preachy about the way others eat, whatever works for you is great. I was HUGE when I started and have lost 100 lbs, now considered normal body weight for my height and I would consider myself above average in terms of fitness. So, it works for me. I also try not to push anything on my kids, other than to make sure their meals are healthy and balanced.

In general, I almost never eat pasta or rice (but the kids have a couple of servings a month). We do eat legumes and some ancient grains (quinoa, spelt, etc), but probably only 1 serving a week. Bread is extremely rare, maybe 1 serving a month (way more for kids). I also try not to freeze anything and with the exception of beans, tomatoes, and tuna don't really buy anything that comes in a can/package. I guess, my philosophy is to eat as close to natural state as possible, as often as possible. This diet is not inexpensive. Our family is still young (2yo and 5yo) and our grocery bill is $200/wk and yet we eat out 3 meals/wk. We do spend close to $80 a week on fresh vegetables (for example we go through 3 celery heads each week). We also spend roughly $80 per week at the butcher and fish monger. To ensure we eat what we buy, we challenge ourselves to eat the fridge/cupboard bare once a month.

* note, so that I don't seem like a hypocrite later, Zym has inspired me to embark on preserving... so I guess I will begin hoarding some foodstuffs.

* also note, we eat at McDs sometimes and have pizza every couple of months... we are not robots (and I have pre-schoolers)

As I say, I don't follow Paleo per say, and I am definitely no expert. But I do have a lot of interesting substitutions should your cravings kick in during your experiment.

2011 Apr 20
Seeing the paleolithic era is roughly 2.6 million years long, and that control of fire, and therefore the ability to cook food, only occurred a few hundred thousands years ago, I guess that means that most of the food eaten while on a paleolithic diet should be raw. Luckily, at present, there are ways to ensure raw meat and fish is safe to eat; no need to worry about parasites and bacteria!

2011 Apr 20
Wikipedia says cooking the food is ok, but all description I had previously read of the paleolithic diet were talking more of a "raw diet, including meat".

While I do like raw fruit, vegetables, fish and red meat, I think like all other strict diets it would get boring fast and make restaurant eating very limited (which is probably two ways it makes people lose weight).

Personally, I think the real health benefits of a hunter-gatherer lifestyle would be strongly linked to all the time spent hunting and gathering (lots of exercise!) If you hunt and gather at the farmer's market, it's not the same ;-)

As for being the diet "we evolved for", I think it could be argued that we did quite a bit of evolving after abandoning that diet...


2011 Apr 20
Although this diet may have some merits it sounds like another fad to me. I am the first to admit I could make some changes to my diet (I'm trying to cut back on the starches I eat and favouring low fat dairy products) eliminating certain foods means we are also eliminating certain nutrients. I like the health benefits (and the fibre) of whole grains (quinoa, bulgur, kasha, etc.), a variety of fruits and veggies and meat and fish. Also, favouring lower fat cooking methods like grilling or oven steaming fish, for example, instead of frying is a positive step towards a healthier lifestyle.

Our modern day refrigeration and cooking techniques have also come along way since the paleolithic time and we also have greater issues to deal with in regards to our food (such as the nuclear leaks in Japan and Chernobyl, oil spills in the Gulf of Mexico, etc.).

2011 Apr 20
I think the point of the Paleo "diet" (not to be mistaken for weight loss diets, sorry, may have derailed the conversation) is that although refrigeration and cooking techniques have evolved rapidly, our digestive system has not.

Take it for what you will (along with the dearth of ridiculous studies)... but there is mounting scientific evidence that a large number of intestinal and bowl "discomfort diseases" could be due to intolerance to specific proteins, including gluten.

2011 Apr 20
Yes, I was extremely skeptical about paleo at first, but the more I read the less skeptical I am. And yeah, the hard-core paleos know all that about cooking and so forth, and they even know that for real paleos of the time period a significant portion of their protein would have been from bugs. And I even know some recently-converted paleos that would like to raise their own bugs to eat.

I want to try it mainly because I have a combination of arthritis and repetitive strain that is really bad, and a friend of mine who recently did this said after 30 days it completely cleared up both of those for him. Worth a try for sure. If it works I would then experiment with re-introducing some foods to see what happens.

2011 Apr 21
With respect to reducing joint pain/arthritic symptoms/etc. I'd suggest that any improvements might be due to the extremely high percentage of meats and animal products that are present in this diet, which to me seems a lot like Atkins/low-carbohydrate minus any dairy.

I read a study when I was a teenager that college athletes who were given gelatin supplements reported less joint pain...can't remember the format of the supplements - it could have been dim sum chicken feet(unlikely) or cafeteria jello (more like it) for all I recall. Regardless, there have been a few studies since then that have supported this concept.

I appreciate that a poorly designed study can demonstrate almost any phenomena, but personal observations back this up. My friends who are in to weightlifting/body-building have mentioned that when they don't eat much meat they experience more general aches and pains. I personally find that my joint pain from old sports injuries increases a bit in the summer when my consumption of meat, particularly slow cooked stews full of gelatin, is way down.

Is it a placebo effect? Possibly, but I still cling to the belief that consuming collagen/gelatin could be beneficial for one's joints.


2011 Apr 21
zymurgist If you are following the paleo diet (or any others) to cure arthritis the debate is out whether special diets will cure the disease. The Arthritis Society has some interesting information on eating healthy: www.arthritis.ca Of particular interest was the mention of a 1993 study testing the effectiveness of joint cartillage particularly from chickens. Trachino's reference to chicken feet may not be that far off after all-;) Here is what they had to say: www.arthritis.ca

Arthritis is hereditary and I personally am not convinced diet will play a significant impact on curing arthritis. In my own family my mother had osteo, my aunt had rheumatoid and I have arthritis as well (possibly rheumatoid). Both my doctor and my mother's doctor highly recommended fish, especially canned salmon and to make sure to mash everything up bones included for consumption. The omega 3's seem to help alleviate symptoms. One thing that helps for me is glucosamine sulfate. Weight bearing activities are highly recommended.

If you choose to follow the paleo diet for 30 days let us know how you make out...

2011 Apr 21
Actually, AFAIK, only about half of the various forms of arthritis are hereditary - the rest caused through strain and normal wear and tear on joints. I have a hereditary juvenile form of the disease, but "arthritis" really just means "joint pain". Glucosamine sulfate will actually cause my form to flare up, as does MSG. :)

I've no trouble believing a link between diet and joint pain, particularly in cases like the type I have where the immune system is linked to flares/inflammation. MSG provokes this same reaction in my body and causes inflammation. It stands to reason that eliminating foods containing reactive ingredients would also lessen inflammation and the resulting joint pain.

I'll be interested to see how this less-processed diet works for him, but I'm not jumping on the bandwagon. I love my carbs too much. ;)


2011 Apr 21
Well, like I said it is a friend (not "a friend of a friend" nor "some guy on the internet") and his problems sounded a lot like mine. And for 30 days it should be an easy test - that is how long it took for him. Should be easy for me to test.

EDIT: I love my carbs too but figure it is worth a try. I cannot even sleep well at night any any of the positions I like, because my shoulders hurt so much. There is only one position I can sleep in with no pain.

For the sake of 30 days, worth a try. Can't wait for Parkdale to open so I can have a go at it.

2011 Apr 21
what was the life expectancy of the cave man?

2011 Apr 21
Yeah, yeah, I've been through all of that myself when trying to debunk paleo. They've got it all covered though if you read their info. We just when through this a few weeks ago on our brewers' mailing list in fact, where my paleo friend defended that position.

I'm as skeptical as anyone and aware of all the holes, but as I said above it seems easy enough for me to prove or disprove for myself - 30 days is all it should take. I hope I can muster the strength to pull it off. I do love my carbs ... but I also love bacon fat and there is LOTS of that in the paleo diet :-) And other yummy fats too.

2011 Apr 22
To give a more complete answer - I think my paleo friend said that fossil records show that paleo man was capable of living as long as we do today, and while their average life expectancy was quite low (30 or so), their early demise was not food related. More like sickness, and getting eaten by lions and that sort of thing.

2011 Apr 22
My sister in law is following a gluten free diet to help with arthritis. Her daughter read that it helped, so she is trying it for 2 months. She is 1/2 way and hasn't seen any noticable difference, but she is going to stick with it.

My brother in law takes glucosimine. I believe that is to help with the synovial fluid around the joints. He says it keeps him mobile.

When I am stiff I do yoga. there was a show on tv called Namaste. What I liked about it was that you didn't hold poses, you went through a series of poses.

If I remember from my nutrition classes, protien is the body repairer. Perhaps that is why you feel better after eating protien.
Carbs are the energy used by the brain, so I can't afford to give those up.

2011 Apr 22
Protein is the repairer.

But carbs are not the brain energy by my understanding - they are energy I guess. The paleos are saying that fats are the important stuff for the brain, and you need the right kinds of fats.

2011 Apr 23
I have been helping people with nutrition for years. Every individual is different and we all have our own unique body type and metabolism.There is no one size(or even 4 or 5!)type of ideal diet because people/bodies/build/sex/age are all different. Find out what works best for you-but those folks who eat lots of vegetables (especially greens and colourful vegetables-raw and cooked), little processed foods, quality protein and healthy oils feel the best. Just find out what combination works best for you. Note-in "cave man" days babies, the ill and the elderly were often fed pre-chewed food-easier to digest!(chewed by mom/dad/child depending on the situation!)
If you are in doubt about your best options consult a nutritionist or dietician. Find out what foods increase your energy/metabolism/immunity and also those that drain you. Sometimes it is not just the foods you are consuming but weak digestion and poor food combininations that are contributing to non-optimum health.
Two really easy ways to optimize digestion are to chew, chew, chew! and to sip less than 1/2 cup of room temp water with meals-optimize your own body's digestion! Be flexible and eat a varied, healthy non-processed diet! Most important-love your food and eat in a non stressful environment...

2011 Jun 8
OK, anyone out there actually eating paleo and can post a few days of meals or something? Or provide good links to same? I have a few resources but most of them want you to buy books or whatever. Best I have so far is this "A week in the life" blog post

everydaypaleo.com

2011 Jun 9
Mark's Daily Apple has some meal post you just got a look around. Also there is amazing info about everything Paleo.

www.marksdailyapple.com/

Also the podcast of Latest in Paleo is interesting.
He also has a yummy beef jerky recipe posted.

www.latestinpaleo.com/

You body uses fat as fuel. But good fat, not polyunsaturated fat like canola oil. The Paleo diet you eat a lot of coconut oil, macadamia nut oil, olive oil, lard, suet etc (Natural fats.) All your organs need saturated fat to function.

Zymurgist, if you need any advise of guidance, I've been researching the diet for about a year, followed it for a bit and it worked great with me. It cleared up my foggy mid day feeling. I'm not paleo any more, since I reintroduced cheese on occasion and rice and once in a while pasta. But what it did was helped me focus my eating back on protein and fat.
I ended up healing my stomach after all the antibiotics by incorporating fermented vegetables and gelatin rich broths in my diet. It also helped me maintain my weight and gain muscle mass that I was having a hard time gaining.

The Weston A Price foundation is another good resource for Traditional Food Eating but they do allow grains.
Here are some articles on Joint Pain and what to do about it
Nighshades
www.westonaprice.org
Broth
www.westonaprice.org




2011 Jun 9
Not exactly a Paleo diet question per say, my comment is more in relation to comments made by Hungry Hippo and W.C. in relation to digestion more generally. I don’t know if anyone has any useful input (an answer?) to my question/concern.

I don't have any dietary restrictions or sensitivities at all; in fact, I tend to like most foods and generally try to eat healthy balanced meals (and snacks).

Over the last year or two I have noticed that a problem with certain foods like pre-made cookies or cakes and other rich items. I have had a few instances where I have had a sudden onset of a violent gut wrenching (cramps) upset stomach moments after eating an offending item. This usually comes with almost immediate diarrhea. Not fun.

I have tried to determine what is causing this. In my mind there is some sort of artificial ingredient perhaps along the lines of butter/margarine/lard or maybe a preservative that doesn’t agree with me. At this point, I have no idea what it is and would like to know as it can be really awkward when this happens.

For example, I really to buy almond cookies when I’m at a grocery store in Chinatown or at a Chinese restaurant that serves them. I don’t do this anymore as I am almost guaranteed to have this negative reaction.

Anyone out there have a possible suggestion about what could be causing this?

2011 Jun 9
flexie

I get stomach pains when I eat anything in corn oil or veg shortening.
Not as bad as you describe , which is why I don't eat out as much.
But process food has lots of preservatives, and it could be any number of things.

The best thing is to heal your stomach and then try eating the offending item again. But really if you removed all process foods would you be missing much?


2011 Jun 11
I brought home a whack of beef and pork fat (leaf lard) from work yesterday. I rendered the pork fat last night and canned it up today to get 8 x 500ml jars of it plus 1 x 250ml. I will use it for general cooking purposes. At lunch I fried up a mess of asparagus and spinach - oh man it was good. I am not starting my 30 day paleo until after Beaver Camp next weekend, just because I'll have to break it for camp anyway.

The beef fat is in the freezer until I can deal with it.

I need a week anyway to prepare for this - still have more reading to do on how to fill in my calories from all the grains and legumes I eat. Might be tough. But will definitely be yummy :-)

2011 Jun 12
You should cook a few ducks, lots of fat you could store in jars after and it's useful for cooking. Worst case is you make duck confit with it, which isn't a bad thing..

2011 Jun 12
My next move is to source beef and pork fat from naturally raised animals since it is way higher in Omega 3 and way better for you. I've already contact my beef farmer, as well as an organic pork farmer on this site.

I have an endless free supply of regular pork and beef fat from work, but want to get the naturally raised stuff. But the stuff I have now from work will do fine in the meantime until I can replace it.

2011 Jun 13
made some lard from leaf lard bought from pork of yore, at carp farmers market. They have a couple of heritage breeds, and I'm pretty sure they are organic. It turned out ok, but can't say it was worth the effort or the price compared to commercial lard.

2011 Jun 13
Well for one thing as mentioned, natural organic pork lard will be way better for you because it will be so high in Omega 3. Also the stuff you buy is hydrogenated I'm pretty sure, which makes it extra super nasty for you. This is important stuff for Paleo. The non-organic stuff I got from work is way better than commercial brick lard. And it may not be high in Omega 3 but at least it is not hydrogenated. And it was free for me :-)

2011 Jun 14
Actually Tenderflake lard is non-hydrogenated. The do have a couple of extra chemicals (BHA, BHT) and has .1 grams of transfat - which I don't think comes with normal lard.

I found my homemade lard to have more of a porky flavour - which was great for frying potatoes, but not as great for cinnamon buns. It wasn't overly strong, so it didn't detract all that much.

2011 Jun 21
On unofficial day 2 now

Sunday I cooked a heel from a beef hip - this is cut you probably have never heard of because it ends up in the ground, and is considered not worth much. Looks a bit like a shank if you've ever seen one - lots of tendons and connective tissue, medium fat, but lots of good strong (tough) muscle. Perfect for paleo! So I rescued one from the ground at work (with the boss's permission) and cooked it slow potroast style for about 3 hours at 325F, with a bunch of onions. In hindsight should have put carrots in there too.

In a frying pan I put a huge blob of the lard I made last week from leaf lard from work, and sauted a massive bunch of asparagus that I'd cut up in 1" lengths. Put a massive onion in there too, and near the end as it was getting soft I put in half a massive bag of baby spinach.

The beef got split in about 4 - two parts on its own, the other 2 in a container with half the stir fry. So I had 2 containers with beef and a bunch of spinach, onion and asparagus stir fried in pork fat. Mmmmm, paleo. That fed me for 2 days at work, along with a huge container of salad. OK, I cheated and had "unknown" salad dressing which probably had some non-paleo stuff in there.

Today for supper my wife made chicken drumsticks and salad, and there were 4 drumsticks left over. So I took 2 each for 2 days of lunches. In addition to this I took another massive (Costco) bunch of asparagus and took 3 or 4 spears at a time and wrapped each in a piece of bacon, then baked it all at 400F until done. Then I took a jar of my pork broth out of the fridge and added a bit of water to it and used it to steam the other half of that massive bag of baby spinach. Afterwards I reboiled it, inverted the jar, and will put it back in the fridge momentarily. THe spinach got divided in 2 and will do for 2 days lunches along with the bacon-wrapped asparagus and chicken.

For breakfast the last 2 days I had 2 boiled eggs and a chunk of the beef about half the size of a boiled egg. Will have the same tomorrow and the next day.

For supper last night I just had salad and some almonds because I was so full from my lunch that I ate during the day.

For supper tonight 2 drumsticks and a good amount of salad. Was still pretty full from the lunch which I ate during the day.

3 times today I ate maybe 10 or 12 almonds.

So far so good. No big body changes yet but am not expecting any this early. In fact tonight we went to a solstice party in the park and I really threw out my shoulder trying to juggle and diving through a hula hoop. I am expecting this diet to fix my shoulder in 30 days. Yup, I am. It has been seriously messed up for a really long time, but I still am.

So far, so good. Do not miss any of my beloved carbs.

2011 Jun 22
Tonight's supper - a big salad and a big chunk of a local grass fed roast - some part of the front shoulder. Lots of yummy fat, and I scooped out all the dripping and drank them down.

Leftover roast for tomorrow lunch, along with a massive salad, some celery and 2 red peppers.

The chicken and bacon wrapped asparagus that had been planned for tomorrow will move to Friday, and the leftover meat from the heel mentioned above will get bumped into some kind of beef and vegetable stew for next week's lunches.

Tomorrow's breakfast will be 2 hard boiled eggs again, and maybe some almonds.

A couple times today I had 10 or 12 almonds.

2011 Jun 23
Wow, you really know when it is time to eat on this diet - like a huge hole in your stomach! I guess because it is pretty hard to stuff yourself full with veg, and veg is supposed to be the biggest part of the diet.

Someone bought a lamb today at work, and I rescued the bits they did not want once it was cut up. The 4 lower shanks, and the breastplate, as well as the kidneys and the CAUL FAT (for the win!). The breast plate actually has a lot of meat but also fat - just hard to get at without boiling.

So I cut it up small on the band saw and took it home and boiled it all. Lots of yummy marrow in those lower shanks, as well as tendons which are good paleo food. Got 1 mason jar of broth and a bunch of chunks of bone with a good bit of fat and meat on them. About 100 ml of rendered fat - cooking the kidneys now in the fat left in the pan. May have one for breakfast - we shall see :-)

Half a massive cucumber.
Having a few radish now, and then trying to figure out how to turn carrots and cabbage into cole slaw.

2011 Jun 24
Today's food :

Breakfast - 2 fried eggs and 2 fried lamb kidney, both fried in lamb fat

Lunch - 2 chicken drumsticks, a bunch of the bacon wrapped asparagus from the other day, half a massive cuke, 5 or 6 good sized radish. The chicken I ate all the skin, tendons and cartlidge. Mmmm, crunchy :-)

Supper - rescued another bunch of lamb castoffs at work and boiled down the bones. Fair bit of fat and meat on them so I ate half of them and the other half will go in the fridge. Apple. Huge salad. 2 slices bacon. So far. Probably have another apple when my stomach gets that craving later

I think that is it. Oh, with today's rescued lamb I also got the tongue this time in addition to the kidneys - will cook that up tomorrow.

EDIT: had almonds several times too

2011 Jun 25
Breakfast :

3 eggs scrambled with onion, red pepper and mushrooms. Fried with lamb fat of course. Yum!

EDIT:

2 apples. Then went to Metro Island Park to find they had a table set up by the sidewalk and were serving tonnes of free food - most of which I could not eat :-( But I ran home and got the boys and they gorged on pizza and cake. I ate a bunch of melon and pineapple.

Big bowl of coleslaw with home made mayo as a dressing (made from olive oil which is paleo - canola and sunflower are decidedly not)

Half a massive cuke.

Huge bowl of salad.

Ate 7 or 8 chunks of the really fatty lamb pieces, being sure to get out all the bone marrow and even eat some of the softer bones from the breastplate.

I think that is it so far. Waiting for the wife to get home to cook up the T bones I bought on sale at Metro - $4.99 per lb is a great deal!

2011 Jun 26
A few apples last night and a T bone for supper

This morning's breakfast


2013 Aug 1
This has been a staple of my diet the last few months, in its many variations.

Basic stir fy based on pastured beef, some type of cabbage, and whatever other veg I have around.


2013 Aug 1
How are your shoulders?

Do you figure it's been a help?

2013 Aug 3
I'm not even really sure how I feel about the Paleo diet (some call it the FAILeo diet). However, I found this recipe on a site the other day. I don't know if I'd call it a recipe as much as a series of instructions. There's a difference, albeit small.

Still, GENIUS! It's basically a whole, frosted watermelon with extra fruit.
Watermelon cake. You're welcome.

www.paleocupboard.com