Picard not allowed to serve foie gras at Winterlude [General]

2010 Dec 16
www.ottawacitizen.com

Glad I didn't buy tickets in the end...

2010 Dec 17
Same here. I'm no longer sad that I spent too long deciding and they got sold out. For the same price I'll be able to go eat at his restaurant, where he can serve what he wants.

Don't you like NCC logic? 450 tickets sold for a chef famous for serving foie gras. 8 people protesting the possible serving of foie gras... the 8 protestors win. From a business point of view, listening to 8 non-clients instead of 450 clients makes no sense at all. I thought NCC wanted to get more funding from outside their own pockets. Pissing off the people actually paying to attend events is certianly not the way to do it.

I respect everyone's right to refuse to eat anything, be it foie gras, pork, meat, milk, cooked food or GMO. I get very annoyed at anyone trying to impose their own philosophy on others.

If they really can't keep themselves from trying to impose their views on others, then they should concentrate their effort on picketing against KFC or McDonalds, who serve millions of chickens treated much worst than foie gras ducks. Or are chicken less deserving of their attention than ducks? More likely it's easy to target a food that most people never eat anyway...

2010 Dec 17
It is a shame, but I'm sure the food will be fantastic.

The concept of tying a chef's hands who is coming to Ottawa to bring a little sparkle to a yearly event....that is sad and in my view doesn't reflect well on the food culture of the city.

2010 Dec 17
I'm frigg'n POd. I did buy the tickets and was totally ready for a foie gras and maple syrup orgy.

2010 Dec 17
Apocalypse is nigh, foie gras production & consumption is corrupting our nation & democracy! Beware of the 4 goosemen!

2010 Dec 17
Holy Fattened Goose Livers, Batman !

2010 Dec 17
@sourdough: if it really bothers you, get your money back and explain why you are doing so. That's really the only way that the promoters are going to get the message. Money.

2010 Dec 17
i wouldn't say that i'm *with* the ncc on this one, but it's not as though they said to picard, "hey, we're going to book you and no, you can't serve foie gras". picard could have decided that it wasn't worthwhile for him to do winterlude without foie gras, or that it went against his art.

but, he didn't.

so, i guess what i'm saying is that the blame does not squarely lay with the ncc.

thing is, you can't say that it's going to hurt their business, because they will be able to replace the tickets. on the other hand, isabelle is completely right: you can drive the 2 hours to montreal quite easily. it's not really an opportunity lost.

it's being made a bigger deal of than necessary, on both sides.

2010 Dec 17
If Picard is prevented from serving foie gras, the mainstream vendors should be prevented from serving conventional mass-produced chickens because the treatment of both types of animals from which each respective meat originates is equally cruel.

2010 Dec 17
Regardless of the ethics of foie, if a world-class chef can't provide an amazing meal without one specific ingredient, they're not world-class. Likewise, if diners won't eat a dinner by a world-class chef because it's lacking one ingredient, that's plain disrespectful.

He's obviously said that he'll come and do the event without foie because he knows he can provide a quality experience without it.

2010 Dec 17
I'm keeping my tickets, because I'm sure the rest of the pig fat and maple syrup orgy will also be good, just would have loved it topped up with foie. I emailed Guy LaFlamme at the NCC to voice my disapproval. Unless LWB is willing to take my 4 kids for an overnight sleepover - getting out to Montreal to sample his fares is just as difficult as popping down to New York for a bite. Maybe someday.

2010 Dec 17
I just wonder who and how or why someone discovered that they needed to forcefeed geese in order to have top quality foie gras...Did someone try it and say, hmm if only we jammed some more food into that goose, it would taste sooo much better...what is foie gras like in geese that haven't been force fed? Who force feeds them and how? I'm just picturing a guy running around with a little turkey baster full of protein shakes...haha

2010 Dec 17
lmgtfy.com

It isn't pretty.

2010 Dec 18
I say good on them for taking a stand. You can romanticise it all you want, the bottom line is that foie gras is both unethical and unnecessary.
There's a reason its production is illegal in: Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands, The UK, California, Argentina, Israel...

2010 Dec 18
ridiculous.

I really wish Martin Picard would just back out and let the NCC find some other chef to serve tofu and salad.

Sorry, but that decision by the NCC is total bull****. To cave in like that is a clear example of how our society`s become.

I`m sure not going, that`s for sure. I`ll drive the 2 hours and spend my money where they present his food the way it`s supposed to be.

2010 Dec 19
I did buy tickets but I immediately asked for a refund and this was my email to Groovy Grapes, the organisers;

"I recently booked four seats for this NCC Winterlude event with Chef Martin Picard. I have just read a news item in the Citizen concerning this event in which it states that due to pressure from the Ottawa Animal Defence League the NCC and American Express have decided not to serve foie gras at this event.

When I booked these tickets it was under the assumption that we would be part of a typical Chef Picard experience. One that is not normally available in Ottawa and includes foie gras. I am now concerned that we may not be able to live this culinary experience.

I would like you to confirm whether or not this is the case. If it is so, I would like a full refund since I feel that the menu is now being dictated by a group with irrational and radical ideology rather than the chef himself and we are not getting the product that we had originally thought we were going to get."

I did get a refund. I hope Martin Picard pulls out of this event in protest. In the meantime I'm booking at his restaurant in Mtl.


"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"

2010 Dec 19
Of course there is a reason why foie gras production is illegal in many country : because of those ridiculous protests. The product has a bad public image. If the reason was "ethics", then duck fattening would become illegal at the exact same time as all other animal fattening. Many food regulations/taboos are based on image and public perception rather than on logic. Many Americans think eating horse is evil. Many of my collegues eat beef but when I bring deer in my lunch they look at me as I'm the bad guy in Bambi.

As for those wondering who invented force feeding... Well, it's the geese and ducks! They would voluntarily stuff themselves before migration. Now, of course, domestic birds don't migrate, so have no reason to stuff themselves that much. In order to reproduce the effect on the liver, you have to force feed them.

By selective cross-breeding, humans amplified the natural enlargement of the liver. Same way pretty much all domestic plants and animal have been selected to be bigger/sweeter/fatter and are fed to get big as fast as possible. Compare wild carrots with even an "heirloom variety" fed on compost and the difference is huge.

I expect vegans to say "eating meat is evil". I just don't understand how foie gras is worst than a leg from a domestic chicken or a steak from a domestic beef.

Finally, for those who say "if Martin Picard can't cook with foie gras he's not really good", you're being silly. No one says he can't cook with foie gras. He doesn't put that stuff in everything. The chef doesn't mind, the clients do. The NCC could even have asked him to do a vegeterian meal. But they should have done so openly and before selling the tickets!

2010 Dec 19
There is a MASSIVE difference between geese stuffing themselves before migration and humans stuffing metal tubes down their throats to force feed them fatty corn, sometimes resulting in their livers becoming so engorged that their function becomes impaired, their abdomens swell to the point of making walking difficult and produces painful scars on the esophagus. The humanity of modern force feeding practices in no way mirrors that of natural duck or goose eating habits.

This practice is not illegal in the countries listed because of vocal protests, it's illegal because it's quite barbaric. I recommend reading the EU Scientific Committee of Animal Health & Welfare's report on the production of foie gras (ec.europa.eu) for a less biased look.

That being said, I do agree that they should have taken this stance before selling tickets for transparency's sake.


2010 Dec 19
1. The menu wasn't finalised or publicised before tickets went on sale. Picard might not have been been planning to use the one ingredient many of you are clamouring over.

2. According to Ron Eade, Picard was consulted and agrees with the decision. Why would he pull out of the event in protest if he agrees with the decision?

It would be pretty funny to me if it comes out that he wasn't planning to use foie and this whole 'uproar' was unfounded. None of you know if he was, yet some have sold your tickets in protest. Perhaps you'll miss the best meal of your life, sans foie by design not decree.


2010 Dec 20
Regardless of whether he was planning to use foie gras or not, as a matter of principle the NCC has definitively overstep its authority.

2010 Dec 20
This is so entertaining!

How has the NCC 'overstepped its authority?'?

To me it looks like they invited a chef to come, offered him what I'd guess is a lot of money and a great venue and tons of exposure (even we're giving him tons of exposure), sold over $56,000 worth of tickets, then asked him to take ONE item off the menu after consulting with the chef and him agreeing to the change. If any of these facts are wrong, please correct me.

Seems perfectly reasonable.

The histrionics can end, please.

2010 Dec 20
Martin Picard NOT using foie gras? You obviously don't know him....lol... I find it funny that PETA et al aren't protesting in front of his restaurant in Montreal. It's probably because they know that Anthony Bourdain and the likes would show up and beat them with their own placards and that the local media wouldn't even find it newsworthy.

2010 Dec 20
AD: I believe the concern stems from a vocal, yet impossibly small minority dictating terms of fringe morality/ethics in a democratic society. There has been a precedent of this type of practice in Ottawa (i.e. @ Luxe Bistro about 2 years ago among other examples).

We are not dealing with serious human rights issues here. Domestic fowl, bred for slaughter, are being force-fed during the last two weeks of their lives, as has been done since time immemorial. For some this is repugnant, and I invite those people to refrain from supporting the industry.

But with roots deep in French culture, Canada will always be a producer and consumer of foie gras and this is unlikely to change. However, nobody is forced to eat something that goes against his or her conscience.


2010 Dec 20
Even though it's hypocritical to continue serving conventional meat and poultry by other vendors, I support the NCC's decision.

Also to Saucier Fou, PETA has protested in front of au Pied de Cochon multiple times. You can find the videos on Youtube.

2010 Dec 20
Food Film Dir
I scoured Youtube and GOOGLE for such a video. Can't find them. PETA must have objected to the Copyright infringments and had them removed. ;-) There were many great APDC videos however...

2010 Dec 20
I personally do not care for foie gras (or liver of any kind) but do love to watch "The Wild Chef". (And I love fried chicken but do not eat KFC on principle--only organic free range for me and I do eat wild game--just don't like liver!) He seems a great choice for Winterlude,given our Canadian heritage and I am sure everyone will love his stuff even without the foie gras. Bon Appetit! (sp?)

2010 Dec 21
I thought I'd share a really informative article on the ethical issues surrounding foie gras: www.seriouseats.com

I have no doubt there are foie gras farms (is that the correct term?) out there, be it in Europe or Asia or even North America, that are treating their ducks unethically but that's a similar case for any farm - the important concept here is to know where YOUR meals are sourced from, at home or in a restaurant. I've been the Mariposa duck farms where many restaurants in the area source their foie gras and can personally say, I think they treat their ducks very well.

Studying the physiology of animals (even briefly) to better understand what is "ethical" and "unethical" (comfortable or uncomfortable) to certain animals is important before jumping to any conclusions. I applaud anyone who has the courage to stand up for animal rights but also think that a more thorough research should be conducted before protests are launched which may diminish a restaurant or chef.

2010 Dec 21
Thanks Qster -- that is a spectacularly well written article!

It confirms my view that the only people with any license to be indignant about foie gras are vegetarians. Production of foie gras is no more inhumane than any other kind of meat.

2010 Dec 21
Thanks Qster, for posting that article. I totally agree with Fresh Foodie's remarks.

2010 Dec 22
I have been reading the foie gras debate on this site for about a year now and here are my personal beliefs and thoughts:

I grew up on a farm, we raised black angus, chickens and pigs. Most of our animals were named and very much loved. I remember fondly my father bringing a sick calf into our garage and setting up an old ice box with hay. We bottled fed him and brought him back to good health(yes, we eventually ate him). Most farmers I knew/know take good care of their animals, however there are always exceptions. The same goes for fois gras productions, the few farms I visited, all I could witness was happy ducks and gentle farmers. I don’t doubt for a second that the opposite can be true just like any other farms but please let’s not single out foie gras because it is an easy target.

Raising animals for food is a part of our nature that has evolved over thousands of years. The methods for raising ducks for foie gras started in ancient Egypt. Is it cruel? To a certain extent maybe, but so is all factory farming. A farmer in Gascony (or elsewhere for that matter) that raises his geese or ducks for foie gras with care is not a cruel person. Raising any animal in a large factory environment is a lot worst than that… Lots of cheap food with no identity. I believe the ultimate cruelty we commit against the animals we raise comes post-mortem. Only selecting certain pieces and discarding the rest because it “looks gross”. To show respect for an animal you need to be willing to eat every edible part of it. You can not just have the filet mignon or the chicken breast.

Go to a real butcher and buy your meat. Talk to him or her about the cuts. Learn about the food you eat. Put some effort into your food buying. You will show the animal the respect it deserves by not letting it become an anonymous piece of meat in a styrofoam tray. Want to make an impact? Support local and small farmers, visit them at the market. Don't make the food buying too convenient. Again put some effort in to it. After all, they did.

2010 Dec 22
Is the NCC worried about protests by PETA? This is becoming a worrying trend in Canada. Protesters make it unsafe for Ann Coulter to speak at Ottawa U and Christie Blanchard at Waterloo. We are being bullied by protestors. Our Universities and now the Federal Government, is caving in and in effect legitimizing these extremists.

The issue here is not whether Foie Gras is ethical or not or if you like it or not. Foie Gras is legal and if you don't like it, don't eat it and leave the rest of us alone.

2010 Dec 22
On a basic level i really dislike the notion that 8 radical protestors prompted the NCC to change a menu that 450 people had, notionally if not in fact, already signed up for. At a minimum i'm fairly sure no one buying a ticket was expecting PETA or whoever to have input on the menu.

I wonder what the response would have been if the menu had included veal and the protestors objected to that...

2010 Dec 22
To expand on OSoloMeal's thought. At what point will PETA protest serving of any meat and insisting on a vegeterain menu?

2010 Dec 22
1. For what it's worth, protesting foie gras is as legal as eating it.

2. Was PETA involved in the protests? Was it just 8 people or more, or less? (Not rhetorical - wondering if there are reports / pictures other than the article from Ron Eade.)

3. Are people here more pissed at the protesters or the NCC?

4. Why are none of the supposed Picard fans on this board expressing their outrage that he's going along with this, having agreed to the change in advance?

2010 Dec 22
I will fight (or at least yell moderately loudly if i'm not doing anything better that day and have the option to remain anonymous) for anyone's right to protest whatever they want to protest, including tasty duck livers which i will joyfully consume in large quantities while waving at said protestors thru the restaurant window.

I am unimpressed with the NCC because that level of folding at the slightest sign of protest is just pathetic, especially where 450 people pay $125 each to be there.

But hey, good news for anyone else with a cause to yell about... find a way to link it to something the NCC is doing and you're pretty much guaranteed to get the reaction you want.

Not clear whether PETA was involved or just the usual the local anti foie group which may be affiliated with PETA. I wasn't really paying attention the last time they did this.

And Picard should do what he wants, but realistically as with any contractor, if the people paying him say no yummy tasty succulent rich and delicious foie gras slathered in maple goodness, then so be it.


2010 Dec 22
The legality to protest foie gras is not the issue. I encourage and welcome disenting opinions. What really is not legal is intimidating people that go to restaurants that serve it.

I do not know if PITA was involved in this incident, it may only be a like minded group. That too is not the point.

This is also not about Picard. Not accepting the NCC bid would probably be a bad business decision.

The actual point, I believe is that the NCC has allowed a minority group to dictate conditions of an event. The reason, I am assuming, is the fear of protestors outside the event, intimidating guests. It is unfortuneate that, when the police do arrest unlawful protestors, they get, primarily by the press, accused of being heavy handed. That was the excuse not to have the protestors removed from Christie Blanchard's talk. Instead they made her cancel the event.

I am disappointed (but not surprised) that the NCC backs down and I really don't like individuals or groups that use intimidation to impose their will on others. Is that unreasonable?

2010 Dec 22
8 people protesting a news conference is not intimidation. To 'welcome and encourage' opinions other than yours and yet cry foul at this particular concern is hypocritical.

I don't know what the Christie Blatchford event in Waterloo has to do with this. Nor Ann Coulter.

2010 Dec 23
I wonder if fast-food foie burgers will ever come to Canada?
aht.seriouseats.com

2010 Dec 23
Hi AD

To address your points:

I am not sure where the number 8 people came from? It was not in the original article. None the less, if you have ever been heckled or harassed by protestors, even 8 screaming at you is intimidating.

The comparison with Ann Coulter and Christie Blatchford is very relevant. In all three cases a group (small or large) attempts to impose their will on others, and the inaction of our the public institutions, is a tacid acceptance of this type of mob rule.

Not all forms of expressing opinions are equal. Hitting someone that upsets you is expressing an opinion. Waving placards, calling people murders or disrupting a speaking event to the point that it is unsafe for the speaker, may also be a form of expressing opinions, but certainly does not promote dialogue. By not approving of this behaviour, I do not believe I am being hypocritical.

The fact that we are have different "opinions" on this issue, and are able to discuss it rationally without accusations and name calling is an indication, to me at any rate, that we are both open to differences in opinion and welcome debate. Am I missing something?

2010 Dec 23
We're getting a long ways from the topic at hand, so I'll stop after this until something relevant comes up...

1. The 8 protesters - this came from an article written by Ottawa Citizen food reporter Ron Eade. I referenced it earlier but didn't provide a link; my apologies. I also asked if anyone could validate that number but nobody answered either way. So I went with 8. communities.canada.com

2. Neither Ann Coulter nor Christie Blatchford have done any cooking or food-related events in Ottawa that I know of. I don't know their opinions on Picard, the NCC, or foie gras. They are not related in any way to any of the parties in this discussion so there is no need to reference them.

3. Hitting someone is not an opinion - it's assault. Waving placards is a legal form of protest, assuming what's written on them isn't illegal. Calling people names is unpleasant and in some cases illegal, but in most cases people are big enough to turn the other cheek. Disrupting events is also unpleasant, as is making things unsafe. In this specific case that we are supposedly discussing, the protesters were outside a hotel where an announcement was being made inside. If people on the sidewalk beside a hotel make people in a board room inside feel unsafe, I'd suggest the people inside are a bit too sensitive. It's the NCC's right to do whatever they want with their event however. And the Chef agreed with the proposal before releasing the menu.

4. I'm open to differences of opinion and welcome debate, yes of course. Let's talk about the NCC, foie gras, Martin Picard, and the event in question. Not much else is relevant here.

Cheers

2010 Dec 24
Racist implications and hate speech as defined by Canadian laws are what kept Ann Coulter and Christie Blatchford away, and that makes them irrelevant in a food debate

2010 Dec 24
Isn't it ironic that 'racist implications and hate speech' kept Coulter from speaking at U of O, yet Norman Finkelstein was welcome with open arms. I wonder if any comparison can be made here....

2010 Dec 24
And we actually pay Don Cherry to go on the CBC and spout that crap!

2010 Dec 24
It was actually intolerance of a few and not Canadian Laws that kept Ann Coulter and Christie Blatchord away, which is exactly on point regarding banning foie gras. The ridiculous Canadian Hate Laws have already been struck down by the Supreme Court, but that is a discussion for another time.

Yan, we all know the reason for that, but it is better left unsaid.

Merry Christmas to all!


2010 Dec 24
Geez, this is getting old, Mybluestar. Again, way off topic but I hope to stop after this.

1. Ann Coulter's own security personnel halted her scheduled Ottawa engagement. She got headlines across the continent without opening her mouth.

2. If you are that upset about the Christie "Blatchord" incident (or Blanchard from earlier in the topic) you'd know her name is Blatchford.

Seems like you never let the facts get in the way of your opinion, eh?

Cheers

2010 Dec 25
Did you say security personnel halted her engagement? I wonder why? What facts am I ignoring?