etiquette for dining out with kids [General]
2010 Apr 26
Without reading the article yet my comment is that we stopped eating out altogether at this stage with our kids - several years of pretty much nothing and we are only just starting to go out again. It was just too much hassle chasing them around restaurants and we did not want to inflict that upon others.
2010 Apr 26
Sort of interesting article. I agree with most of her points but she comes across kind of preachy. Anyway here is where we are at with our kids.
1. Our kids are good kids, but not angels at dinner time. Squirming in there seats and getting them to sit through dinner is hit and miss. As they get older colouring books and DS are a big help.
2. Before they were born and shortly after I figured we'd just take our kids everywhere and get them used to going out - restaurants, jazz festival, what ever ... After they were born (we started with twins) my great intentions turned into reality. How can you (me) enjoy your own dinner when 90% of the time you are trying to solve one problem or another. As more kids came along it gets even more difficult (although the older ones are getting easier).
3. When we go out we go early - other wise at least one kid will fall asleep or have a break down.
4. When we take the kids out we go to family friendly places - for us this means chinese, papusas, or any other ethnic place that has lots of other kids running around and has lots of conversation. Hushed tones just don't work with 4 kids.
5. We always try to order something for the kids that comes out fast. The downside is by the time our food comes out they may be done. This is where colouring books/DS/ipod come in handy. For kids between 0 - 2 it is a more difficult balancing act.
6. When they are old enough going out with another family with kids can work out ok - as the kids keep each other occupied. Doesn't seem to work as well with sibs :)
Finally every kid is different - I'm firmly of the belief that parenting is 50% at best part of that equation. So no matter what your kid is like, roll with it and don't judge any one else's kid. I've got friends with perfect kids who sit quietly and eat politely and never make a fuss, as well as friends with kids who would drive you nuts, I don't blame or give too much credit to parents either way, kids are kids, each are different and unique.
1. Our kids are good kids, but not angels at dinner time. Squirming in there seats and getting them to sit through dinner is hit and miss. As they get older colouring books and DS are a big help.
2. Before they were born and shortly after I figured we'd just take our kids everywhere and get them used to going out - restaurants, jazz festival, what ever ... After they were born (we started with twins) my great intentions turned into reality. How can you (me) enjoy your own dinner when 90% of the time you are trying to solve one problem or another. As more kids came along it gets even more difficult (although the older ones are getting easier).
3. When we go out we go early - other wise at least one kid will fall asleep or have a break down.
4. When we take the kids out we go to family friendly places - for us this means chinese, papusas, or any other ethnic place that has lots of other kids running around and has lots of conversation. Hushed tones just don't work with 4 kids.
5. We always try to order something for the kids that comes out fast. The downside is by the time our food comes out they may be done. This is where colouring books/DS/ipod come in handy. For kids between 0 - 2 it is a more difficult balancing act.
6. When they are old enough going out with another family with kids can work out ok - as the kids keep each other occupied. Doesn't seem to work as well with sibs :)
Finally every kid is different - I'm firmly of the belief that parenting is 50% at best part of that equation. So no matter what your kid is like, roll with it and don't judge any one else's kid. I've got friends with perfect kids who sit quietly and eat politely and never make a fuss, as well as friends with kids who would drive you nuts, I don't blame or give too much credit to parents either way, kids are kids, each are different and unique.
2010 Apr 26
Hmmm, the general theme of that article is quite good (broaden your kids horizons and make sure they're well behaved in restaurants), but aside from that it's an opinionated piece of dreck. It would be better suited to an internet forum than publication in our capital's most respected newspaper. ;-)
I heartily disagree with this one: "Making a reservation without advising that there are children is sneaky and inconsiderate." That's a slippery slope. Does she also want the opportunity to reject reservations from parties containing people with physical or mental disabilities? Sheesh, maybe she should be operating a private club instead of a restaurant.
We always avoid taking our kids out to nicer restaurants on "date nights" -- Friday and Saturday evenings, because we know most people don't want kids around. Numerous times we've paid for a babysitter on Saturday night so we could go out for a kid-free dinner, and then found ourselves next to a table with rambunctious little ones. It isn't ideal, but it's also not a big deal.
When our kids were toddlers, we would also spend some time under the table, picking up any wayward scraps while unbuckling their booster seats, thus making an effort to leave things as clean as they would be if only adults had eaten at our table.
So, here's my list of rules/advice for parents:
* Align the caliber of restaurant with your kid's mood or ability to behave.
* Be mindful that your child is taking up an adult's seat. Splurge or tip more to compensate.
* If the server does anything to accommodate the special needs of a child, or has to clean up a mess, increase your tip accordingly.
* Avoid taking kids to nicer restaurants on Friday or Saturday evenings. If you insist on doing this, restrict yourself to the earliest seatings.
* Clean up after your kids.
EDIT:
* Also, bring whatever entertainment your kids might need to stay occupied. Colouring books, etc.
sourdough, your "parenting is 50% at best part of that equation" comment rings true to me, as I suspect it would with other parents of twins. :-)
I heartily disagree with this one: "Making a reservation without advising that there are children is sneaky and inconsiderate." That's a slippery slope. Does she also want the opportunity to reject reservations from parties containing people with physical or mental disabilities? Sheesh, maybe she should be operating a private club instead of a restaurant.
We always avoid taking our kids out to nicer restaurants on "date nights" -- Friday and Saturday evenings, because we know most people don't want kids around. Numerous times we've paid for a babysitter on Saturday night so we could go out for a kid-free dinner, and then found ourselves next to a table with rambunctious little ones. It isn't ideal, but it's also not a big deal.
When our kids were toddlers, we would also spend some time under the table, picking up any wayward scraps while unbuckling their booster seats, thus making an effort to leave things as clean as they would be if only adults had eaten at our table.
So, here's my list of rules/advice for parents:
* Align the caliber of restaurant with your kid's mood or ability to behave.
* Be mindful that your child is taking up an adult's seat. Splurge or tip more to compensate.
* If the server does anything to accommodate the special needs of a child, or has to clean up a mess, increase your tip accordingly.
* Avoid taking kids to nicer restaurants on Friday or Saturday evenings. If you insist on doing this, restrict yourself to the earliest seatings.
* Clean up after your kids.
EDIT:
* Also, bring whatever entertainment your kids might need to stay occupied. Colouring books, etc.
sourdough, your "parenting is 50% at best part of that equation" comment rings true to me, as I suspect it would with other parents of twins. :-)
2010 Apr 26
I think DS is Nintendo DS - handheld game.
Having read most of it now - I agree with FF's first comment that the broader strokes seem right on, while at the same time it is an opinionated piece of dreck. I would not eat in this person's restaurant.
I don't agree with the notion that a child is taking up the space of an adult and I should feel guilty about this somehow, and pay more / tip better. Sorry, suck it up. That's your business, learn to deal with reality. Now, that having been said, I would try my best to avoid prime time anyway, so it would be unlikely I'd be there when it was full, so technically the equation would be the other way around - they should be grateful to me for filling seats at time when they are normally not full.
Going out early sort of goes without saying for any parent who even puts the slightest amount of thought into the matter. We are always big on the notion of "don't set them up for failure". Like booking a reservation which is past their bedtime. WTF would you expect to happen other than a complete meltdown?
I also agree that parenting is only 50%. And I disagree with the article that nobody thinks your kids are as cute as you do. That is the sort of thing that sounds like it could have been written by one of my friends moms when I was growing up, who would not even let her own kids play in their own yard. I honestly feel sorry for the person who has become that grouchy and bitter in life that they cannot smile when they see a child. After having 2 extremely rambunctious boys, I am especially forgiving to others and their kids. And when there is another child being mischeivious I am usually able to smile and laugh at it.
Having read most of it now - I agree with FF's first comment that the broader strokes seem right on, while at the same time it is an opinionated piece of dreck. I would not eat in this person's restaurant.
I don't agree with the notion that a child is taking up the space of an adult and I should feel guilty about this somehow, and pay more / tip better. Sorry, suck it up. That's your business, learn to deal with reality. Now, that having been said, I would try my best to avoid prime time anyway, so it would be unlikely I'd be there when it was full, so technically the equation would be the other way around - they should be grateful to me for filling seats at time when they are normally not full.
Going out early sort of goes without saying for any parent who even puts the slightest amount of thought into the matter. We are always big on the notion of "don't set them up for failure". Like booking a reservation which is past their bedtime. WTF would you expect to happen other than a complete meltdown?
I also agree that parenting is only 50%. And I disagree with the article that nobody thinks your kids are as cute as you do. That is the sort of thing that sounds like it could have been written by one of my friends moms when I was growing up, who would not even let her own kids play in their own yard. I honestly feel sorry for the person who has become that grouchy and bitter in life that they cannot smile when they see a child. After having 2 extremely rambunctious boys, I am especially forgiving to others and their kids. And when there is another child being mischeivious I am usually able to smile and laugh at it.
2010 Apr 26
reading the above posts i think we are very different and i can't figure out why. We have never had any problems with the children (kids) when going out. We have 3...19, 15 and 8 years old. Obviously, the older ones are past the misbehaving stage.
Sourdough...twins, now that would be a challenge. I agree with your last paragragh.
Other thoughts on the subject...why do they put ball rooms and play structures in stores and restaurants? Isn't that encouraging them to play?
Why are children's menu items different from the adults and usually some junky food?
When the kids do mess around, why are they given colouring papers, candies, etc.? Isn't this rewarding them for misbehaving?
I think the parents are ultimately responsible for their kids behaviour and think its a more complicated subject than being at a store or restaurant. It comes down to how we view kids in our present society and this reflects on their behaviour. Disclaimer: Sorry, no studies or evidence to back this up, just observations.
Great subject!
Sourdough...twins, now that would be a challenge. I agree with your last paragragh.
Other thoughts on the subject...why do they put ball rooms and play structures in stores and restaurants? Isn't that encouraging them to play?
Why are children's menu items different from the adults and usually some junky food?
When the kids do mess around, why are they given colouring papers, candies, etc.? Isn't this rewarding them for misbehaving?
I think the parents are ultimately responsible for their kids behaviour and think its a more complicated subject than being at a store or restaurant. It comes down to how we view kids in our present society and this reflects on their behaviour. Disclaimer: Sorry, no studies or evidence to back this up, just observations.
Great subject!
2010 Apr 26
We dine out with our two kids (4 and 1) two to three times a week... I know, gasp.... but we enjoy this activity as a family and actually spend MORE undistracted time together when dining out then at home around the dinner table.
Our children are well behaved and I chaulk it up to the diversity in experiences we have with them, well, that and my superlative parenting skills :). They understand that dining in a restaurant is a priveledge and that this comes along with different behaviour. I am reaching a bit with our 1 year old, but in reality, he is accustomed to the restaurant environment, hence the extra simulation does not set him off.
As for courtesy when dining, we certainly have to tailor our dining choices for the children (Atelier is out) and even have to give in sometimes and eat at their favourite restaurant, currently Jack Astor's. I always tip based on an adult meal and ALWAYS (take note parents) clean up my child's area after dining (server does not mean janitor). Our other rule is that the children are never allowed to leave their seat unaccompanied.
Following on Zyg's comment, I agree that the number one key to successful dining with toddlers is to choose an appropriate time... not one dictated by the other patrons but by the child's schedule. We have a lot of 5 o'clock meals.
Our children are well behaved and I chaulk it up to the diversity in experiences we have with them, well, that and my superlative parenting skills :). They understand that dining in a restaurant is a priveledge and that this comes along with different behaviour. I am reaching a bit with our 1 year old, but in reality, he is accustomed to the restaurant environment, hence the extra simulation does not set him off.
As for courtesy when dining, we certainly have to tailor our dining choices for the children (Atelier is out) and even have to give in sometimes and eat at their favourite restaurant, currently Jack Astor's. I always tip based on an adult meal and ALWAYS (take note parents) clean up my child's area after dining (server does not mean janitor). Our other rule is that the children are never allowed to leave their seat unaccompanied.
Following on Zyg's comment, I agree that the number one key to successful dining with toddlers is to choose an appropriate time... not one dictated by the other patrons but by the child's schedule. We have a lot of 5 o'clock meals.
2010 Apr 28
Eating out with my 2.5 year old toddler is horrible - HORRIBLE! Even if we go to a buffet, my husband or I have to take turns watching him/running around with him, and keeping him out of mishchief while the other parent wolfs down the food and sits alone. We even had a bad time at Burger King - Burger King! He wasn't in the mood to eat anything and climbed over all the chairs and tables - perilous and unsuitable for a public place. We had a slightly better time at East Side Mario's - he ate a little bit and could be distracted with their toys and crayons.
In regard to etiquette, my husband and I work hard to make sure he doesn't disturb the diners or servers. And if he gets noisy we are out of there asap.
But bottom line is that it depends on the child - I have friends whose kids sit quietly in their chairs. While that may be nice for a little while, I'd rather have a spirited kiddo. So I roll with it and avoid restaurants with him as much as possible. I'm sure in a few years he'll be well behaved in restaurants.
'Course, then I'll have another toddler to deal with - mwahahah!
In regard to etiquette, my husband and I work hard to make sure he doesn't disturb the diners or servers. And if he gets noisy we are out of there asap.
But bottom line is that it depends on the child - I have friends whose kids sit quietly in their chairs. While that may be nice for a little while, I'd rather have a spirited kiddo. So I roll with it and avoid restaurants with him as much as possible. I'm sure in a few years he'll be well behaved in restaurants.
'Course, then I'll have another toddler to deal with - mwahahah!
2010 May 3
Hi, I bring my nine year old out to eat, but ensure he has something to keep him busy (family type restaurants). We recently went to Jean Albert's new location, sat downstairs (where they don't serve beer) and brought a little gaming thing he could play with~ but we are concious of where kids belong and don't. (ie. upstairs is a little fancier and serves beer/wine etc. and doesn't seem like a good place to bring a child). We brought him to Local Heroes for a 7:30 start game on a weekend for the 'experience' of a Sens Playoff game, we left after the second perioud because of the late hour, and because of the croud drinking etc. We have always taught him respect and manners, but when he was younger we couldn't bring him anywhere because there really is no controlling kids of a certain age. Now if we could afford going out more, we would...if we brought something to occupy him. If I was going to bring him to a 'fancier' restaurant, I might dress him up so he fit in more and I know he won't bother anyone ~although he does stare at people sometimes !LOL We brought him at xmas for brunch at Brookstreet, and everyone was dressed up because it was xmas brunch, and we had him in a little suit and he loved it because of all the choices for food.
2010 May 6
We like to take our two kids out to eat ~once a week (2 and 5 years). We will usually choose somewhere they like, though they know that we share and sometimes the parents choose. Going early is a rule so we get food fast and any problems impact the fewest diners. We have the same rules as we do at home, such as- nobody gets up until we are all done eating (washroom breaks are accompanied by an adult), we use inside voices, misbehavior means we leave... one warning and then we go. We have always cleaned up after our kids, same as at home. If activities are provided by the restaurant they can participate, however we will rarely encourage them to play with toys at the table.
We spend so little time together during the week that meals seem to be our largest chunk of together time. We feel that it is a family meal and family time, that means interacting with one another (likely much easier with one or two kids). "Parent only" time is after the kids bedtime.
We spend so little time together during the week that meals seem to be our largest chunk of together time. We feel that it is a family meal and family time, that means interacting with one another (likely much easier with one or two kids). "Parent only" time is after the kids bedtime.
2010 May 10
I'm with Spud Guy: Why are children's menu items different from the adults and usually some junky food?
If I can order a steamed chicken breast with a lovely sauce and fresh veg, why are my kids options pizza and chicken fingers and /crap/?
We limit going out (1.5, 6, 8) as we have a toddler, but from the time the older two were 4+, they were fine as long as I chose the restaurant, and the meal time accordingly. Going out for an 8pm fancy dinner is a sure way to fail!
*shrug* We only eat out about once every other month or so - sometimes less! so it's never a big deal.
If I can order a steamed chicken breast with a lovely sauce and fresh veg, why are my kids options pizza and chicken fingers and /crap/?
We limit going out (1.5, 6, 8) as we have a toddler, but from the time the older two were 4+, they were fine as long as I chose the restaurant, and the meal time accordingly. Going out for an 8pm fancy dinner is a sure way to fail!
*shrug* We only eat out about once every other month or so - sometimes less! so it's never a big deal.
2015 Nov 21
Googling "domo arigato omelet" and "okonomi waffles" led me to the quite famous Carino Bisto in Calgary. carinobistro.ca
It's a nice gesture and a good PR move, especially when the picture of the bill goes viral. Betcha anything someone will complain now when they don't get the discount. "But my kids are angels... Where's my five bucks off?" *Awkward* haha
It's a nice gesture and a good PR move, especially when the picture of the bill goes viral. Betcha anything someone will complain now when they don't get the discount. "But my kids are angels... Where's my five bucks off?" *Awkward* haha
2015 Nov 21
From my experience I think kids get a bad rap, we offer play-do to them, it's generally keeps them busy & I've never had an issue with asking a little one to settle down but it doesn't happen very often, that's not to say that I haven't had issues but to be fair I've had issues with unruly adults as well (I worked @ the Prescott!)
I find 99% of kids are well behaved & when they're not 99% of the parents do the right thing..
We don't offer a 'kids menu' but we offer a small fish & chip, pasta, hamburger, you'd be amazed how many kids LOVE the duck confit, I think you should treat everyone with respect including children & I think the families appreciate it...
I find 99% of kids are well behaved & when they're not 99% of the parents do the right thing..
We don't offer a 'kids menu' but we offer a small fish & chip, pasta, hamburger, you'd be amazed how many kids LOVE the duck confit, I think you should treat everyone with respect including children & I think the families appreciate it...
2015 Nov 21
I've been eating out "forever" when I was a kid and my sister and I were always well behaved.
We used to go to regular restaurants with out dad- I must have been 6 and my sister around 5 and we would go to places like Hemingways, Al's steak house, Place next door, St Hubert's and lots of others.
Waiters were always surprized we were allowed to order off the regular menu.
I think the worst "kid" behaviour my sister and I had was Hemingways had a bar area, and there was some Pacman and video games and we would go play those while waiting for food.
I remember a couple times people asked me and my sister why we were playing video games in the bar (they did not realize my dad was waiting for food,I guess).
-Guess I did not really realize that kids were not supposed to be in areas where there is alcohol.
My dad would usually have beer or wine with his dinner and so did not really think it was bad to have a drink in front of kids.
Also I just realized you are not supposed to handle alcohol in a restaurant or food service setting until you are 19?
I worked at a restaurant when I was 17 and handled alcohol,did not think anything about it then.
I had to make some desserts that had alcohol in them and had to get the alcohol from the bar area (used to make bourbon chocolate pecan pies).
What is funny now is I wish adults could order the kids items- at a couple restaurants you can get kids meals for take-out or delivery and I find them better than the actual adult meals.
Swiss chalet kids pasta meal w shrimp or chicken is really good and for $7 you also get a side dish/salad and a dessert (the dirt and worms dessert is good).
Or the St Hubert UFO sandwich kids meal (can get a take-out), a sandwich made w 2 chicken fingers,you also get side dish, drink, dessert for $7 (drink is a drink box and dessert either cookies or apple sauce pouch).
I remember one of my favorite Mexican restaurants downtown used to let me order off the kids menu, too bad they closed...
Also, remember going to Nate's deli to pick up stuff for my dad as he was not always well enough to go himself and the staff remembered me from a long time ago!
I was so surprized by that!
@Terry- you are right there is a lot of mis-behaving rude adults. I used to volonteer at Sunday bikedays and there are always a couple there. Same for restaurants,clubs bars- there is always the one or two people who are super rude and annoying.
We used to go to regular restaurants with out dad- I must have been 6 and my sister around 5 and we would go to places like Hemingways, Al's steak house, Place next door, St Hubert's and lots of others.
Waiters were always surprized we were allowed to order off the regular menu.
I think the worst "kid" behaviour my sister and I had was Hemingways had a bar area, and there was some Pacman and video games and we would go play those while waiting for food.
I remember a couple times people asked me and my sister why we were playing video games in the bar (they did not realize my dad was waiting for food,I guess).
-Guess I did not really realize that kids were not supposed to be in areas where there is alcohol.
My dad would usually have beer or wine with his dinner and so did not really think it was bad to have a drink in front of kids.
Also I just realized you are not supposed to handle alcohol in a restaurant or food service setting until you are 19?
I worked at a restaurant when I was 17 and handled alcohol,did not think anything about it then.
I had to make some desserts that had alcohol in them and had to get the alcohol from the bar area (used to make bourbon chocolate pecan pies).
What is funny now is I wish adults could order the kids items- at a couple restaurants you can get kids meals for take-out or delivery and I find them better than the actual adult meals.
Swiss chalet kids pasta meal w shrimp or chicken is really good and for $7 you also get a side dish/salad and a dessert (the dirt and worms dessert is good).
Or the St Hubert UFO sandwich kids meal (can get a take-out), a sandwich made w 2 chicken fingers,you also get side dish, drink, dessert for $7 (drink is a drink box and dessert either cookies or apple sauce pouch).
I remember one of my favorite Mexican restaurants downtown used to let me order off the kids menu, too bad they closed...
Also, remember going to Nate's deli to pick up stuff for my dad as he was not always well enough to go himself and the staff remembered me from a long time ago!
I was so surprized by that!
@Terry- you are right there is a lot of mis-behaving rude adults. I used to volonteer at Sunday bikedays and there are always a couple there. Same for restaurants,clubs bars- there is always the one or two people who are super rude and annoying.
2015 Nov 24
My parents too us to McD's to learn about table manners in public, as a 5 year old I could go anywhere for a meal without becoming a challenge. I don't have kids to practice on, but it makes sense that we got to learn at a family restaurant before being trotted out to more formal settings.
2015 Nov 28
I don't interrupt or disrespect others...if my kids are well-behaved (which they normally were), I went where I wanted to go. If they got out of hand, we left early. This is not a cross Atlantic flight. We have a choice. If your kids are maniacs, leave. If they are always maniacs, don't go out for long.
hipfunkyfun
personally, we are at the toddler stage and i get no pleasure dining out with my kid lately. he is busy and fidgety and i worry about him disrupting other people's meals if we can't keep him in his chair. when we do decide to brave it, we go out for the earliest dinner possible and hopefully avoid the rush.
while i don't agree with everything the author says - she says to stay home if you are going to order off kids menu (instead of spending money on chicken fingers). our reality is, our kid is picky. my husband and i are not picky eaters, i'd rather order him a grilled cheese sandwich and be able to eat a meal that someone else has cooked for me than worry about the fact i am spending money on something i could easily make at home.
how do other parents do it? how do you keep your kid in their seat? we have had fast service at some nice restaurants and dreadfully-painfully-slow service at some family friendly restaurants (the works is one).
here is the article and i am interested in other people's reactions.
www.ottawacitizen.com