is "being busy" an excuse? [General]

2010 Jan 17
This related to our visit last night to Brasseur du Temps. My wife wrote a scathing review of it on her blog, which was way less forgiving than my review here. I wrote here that I thought they managed the "being busy" part of the evening extremely well, actually. Even if it was probably responsible for the crappy fish and chips my wife had.

My wife wrote something in her review that really rang true to me when thinking about it, and really makes me think that nobody should ever have an excuse of "being busy". i.e. service was not as good, or food was not as good, because we were busy.

Basically what my wife wrote is that they already know in advance what their seating capacity is. They know they seat X people. They should therefore also know what it takes to properly serve X people, and should be able to do it. Especially when they know in advance that on this night they are going to be full, as was the case at BdT last night. When I was there the other day the guy told me very clearly that they are booked up solid every Thursday, Friday and Saturday evening, and that you absolutely need reservations on those nights.

That is pretty hard to refute, really.

Of course, for all we know, 5 people called in sick last night.

Oh, here is my wife's review for the curious :
refashionista.wordpress.com

She also made a very good point to me just now in chatting about it, about making sure kids get served first. Last night our youngest son's meal was 10 minutes behind the others, but luckily he and I were in the washroom for that whole time because he "had to go" :-) Basically, my wife said that it is not just a matter of our table having an enjoyable evening, but every table within earshot because if a child aged 6 has to wait 10 minutes for his food while his older brother is happily munching away, it is going to result in an annoyance for everyone within earshot. Good point if you ask me, and something all restaurants should heed, especially ones like BdT which seem to welcome small children.

2010 Jan 17
Zym - I agree with your wife's logic re: capacity. If 5 people called in, well, that's what backups are for!

2010 Jan 17
Yes, I see the logic... but really... UNLESS you are going to pay someone to be on "stand-by" there is no such thing as a real back-up.

Personnel Logistics is one of the biggest headaches in the Restaurant Biz (just like in many other businesses).

Fact of life in the Restaurant Biz, just because your place can sit 100 doesn't mean it will every night of the week, nor any guarantee that you can staff it to handle that amount... in an effective way as so to ensure enough coverage on your busy nights and not have all the hassles of "carrying" folks the rest of the week... it is a scheduling nightmare for most Owners.

They do the best they can.

Which sadly, on some shifts during the week may be lacking... sounds like that was the case on your Saturday Visit vs the one earlier in the week.

2010 Jan 17
Zym,

What a predicament.

Served two orders of soggy Fish and Chips ... not in a bowling alley or roadside fish and chip truck ... but in a Brasserie !

I don't know what I would do, if it were me and my family.

Send the food back knowing it was going to be wasted ...

Or biting ones lip(s) and paying full price for the soggy fish and chips, just to make a point: "We don't waste food ... even if we are buying it in a restaurant and it brings mom to tears". Hmmmm.

I'm not sure I would want to teach my kids to accept below par food without at least bringing it to the restauants attention. I realise the server did not do a "How's it goining" visit. But they could of heard some feedback at bill time.

Maybe I would do BOTH ! Say to the server "We are going to eat the soggy fish and chips because we, as a family, don't believe in wasting food." I'm sure that would result in some compensation. Free app. or free desert or discount.

What would other Ottawa Foodies do when faced with this situation ?


2010 Jan 17
i agree captain c. there is no way i would teach my kid that the right thing to do is to eat a horrible meal that the restaurant screwed up. i was surprised that the thought of keeping and eating a terrible meal, that actual brings someone to tears is better than dealing with the issue in an adult manner with the server and being served something edible. it doesn't sound like the food was fit to eat, so you just wasted money. what did the kids learn from that? if you order something and the staff screw it up, too bad you are stuck with it?
how is talking to the waiter and explaining the situation a negative thing if children are around?

children learn to deal with situations like this by watching their parents. i don't see how having such a terrible meal, paying full price and later complaining online is the right way to deal with the bad meal. from now on, the bad experience will be talked about in the family with no resolution shown to the boys to show how the problem could have been easily dealt with leaving everyone happy.

2010 Jan 17
If providing a good user experience is not the responsibility of the establishment, then whose responsibility is it? We don't really need to dissect Zym's role in this, other than having the admirable aspiration of not needlessly wasting food. Some have suggested that some slack should be given the restaraunt as if it's somehow not their fault because they were busy. I see this the same as any other difficulty that can be encountered, in that if it's a one time, stars were poorly aligned experience then the establishment deserves another chance. If this is 'to be expected' when they are busy, then that would not be a place, or excuse that would have the chance to earn my money again.

2010 Jan 18
Captain Carper:
>>"We are going to eat the soggy fish and chips because we, as a family, don't believe in wasting food."

I don't think you will waste any food by telling a server "my fish and chips are soggy." Even you send it back to the kitchen for exchange, you don't waste it, because the fish and chips had been wasted already by the cook!( by the bad cooking)
Who cooked the soggy fish and chips? Not you. Well then why on earth the customer have to feel guilty and take responsibility for the "wasted food" by the cook? Cook should know how to cook, and server should know how to serve.
That's their job. That's how I think.

"Being busy" cannot be a good excuse. I work at retirement home and serve full course dinner for 45 residents within 2 hours.
I serve first seating from salad to dessert, pick up and process dishes, reset dining tables for the second seating, prepare dessert, salad, juice, tea,coffee, make tray for room service...
I have so many things to do, but I don't make excuse to residents "I am busy!"
because residents paid for the good service already!
I would ask my manager to improve the busy situation that affecting the quality of the service, instead of making excuse to the customers.
That's how I think.

2010 Jan 18
Yes, I admit I could have done things a bit differently, but it is not just a matter of teaching the kids about wasting food, it is a matter of not being picky. I teach my kids to be humble and have humble expectations. And to always try to keep in mind that there are others in the world far less fortunate than them. I'm trying right now to teach them a bit about what is going on in Haiti for example. What should I do - tell them on the one hand that people there are starving and killing each other in the streets for food, and then turn around and teach them to be snobby about food and turn their nose up if it is not just right? I believe I erred on the correct side here. 100%

BTW I disagree with my wife's review in several areas - one being that my son was eating his fish just fine and dandy - he got down to about 20% left and declared it unfit for eating. I told my wife at the time that he'd only done this after listening to her complain the whole time. I ate the rest of my son's - and yes it was soggy and that's not what you pay $15 for. But it was still pefectly edible food. The texture was way off, but the taste was fine.

And as for her bursting into tears - that is why I mentioned that she is pregnant. She breaks into tears at the drop of a hat. Not to dismiss her bad experience with that remark by any means because the fish was not what you expect for 15 bucks. But just to put it into perspective.

2010 Jan 18
And I'm officially in the dog house - why does my wife pick NOW to start reading Ottawa Foodies? :-)

OK, she says that our son had been complaining about the fish well before finally giving up on it - which I will concede to her since for most of that time I was in the washroom with my other son.

2010 Jan 18
I side with Zym on this one wrt teaching your kids not to waste food. I would however also have mentioned something to the wait staff. As for being busy, it may not be an excuse but I'd always give someone the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps they did get a bunch of staff calling in sick, and no one else was available to show up - it happens. If it happens too often, you don't go back.

Never contradict your pregnant wife is anther rule to go along with not wasting food :)

2010 Jan 18
was the "gelatinous" fish bad? because any deep fried fish that i found gelatinous, i would consider to be unsafe/unwise to consume.

if the situation was just that your wife didn't like the flavour and was being picky, then i can understand sucking it up and finishing part of the meal without making a big deal about it. if the fish was bad, i wouldn't eat it just to prove a point to the kids.

2010 Jan 18
Oh, I see your point HFF. It did not seem "bad" (as in off / rotting / whatever) to me, but then again just yesterday I ate some pizza meat that WAS off and my stomach has been paying the price for it :-) I'm not the best judge of that sort of thing so I would defer to my wife there too :) At least in the case of the fish (vs the pizza meat), though, it was deep fried so if it really were bad, it would not be dangerous.

When I finished up my son's plate, it tasted pretty much like the leftovers I had this summer from my favorite fish n chip place in Nova Scotia. They were next-day leftovers from the fridge, and I would guess that most people probably would not eat fish that is all soggy like that. And as mentioned already here, you certainly don't expect that for $15 a plate from a quasi-"fancy" restaurant, straight out of the kitchen.

EDIT: p.s. to sourdough - yes, my rule #1 is "never argue with a pregnant woman" :-)

2010 Jan 18
Restaurant issues aside (which I've already given my opinion on above), and Parenting (which in this case I am smart enough not to give an opinion on... we all do things differently)... the basic concept here can boil down to one sentence:

"Yes, my rule #1 is NEVER argue with a pregnant woman"

And ya need to ADD

"ESPECIALLY when she is your wife"

Zym - By posting this topic, you stepped in the doo-doo right off the bat, you not only argued with her point of view... you did it in public. Sorry mate, but there is no saving your hide now (another Dinner... her choosing may be the only way out of the doghouse).

All I can say, is you are fortunate man in that she hasn't been reading OF all-along.
;-)

2010 Jan 18
I would be the SWMBO in question. ;)

As far as the kids/parenting thing:

Our boys are hitting a very picky stage. Seeing/hearing me send something back would be counter to what we are trying to teach them. The food wasn't spoiled -- it was just prepared, heated, served very poorly. After reading some of the comments here and reflecting further on the particular taste, I can only surmise they are still using the catfish. On it's own, in a nice, light and crispy batter, this would be absolutely fine. Catfish has an oily texture and strong flavour. When paired with wet, soggy batter, it created a gelatinous layer between the batter and fish that was really quite disgusting. Not something that would kill us, but not exactly something that feels good in one's mouth when eating.

I don't feel I was being picky. I am not a picky eater. I am particular about my fish and chips, but I still manage to enjoy even the ones that don't reach my "ideal". There was quite honestly _nothing_ redeeming about my plate on Saturday night.

I also need to add that our oldest did not eat 80% of his, as suggested by Zym. He ate the middle 1.5"-2" of the fillet. Far less than half, in my recollection, as the portion sizes were quite large (which would have been lovely, had they been better prepared).

FTR, I do read Ottawa Foodies -- just not regularly and I don't post. I've been a member since about 2007.

2010 Jan 18
If a high-end restaurant can skew up on a simple dish like fish and chip, I think I can forget about this restaurant. I don't think I will visit this restaurant.

2010 Jan 19
This appears to have been a rather off night; Les Brasseurs de Temps usually has provided nice high quality food and I think Zym's burger is the clear indication. The same item dropped in quality significantly between the first visit and the second. I suspect that if the fish was ordered on the visit, it would have been crispy and flavourful rather then soggy and gelatenous. I have excellent fare during the busy periods of time, so I doubt that it is a matter of the restauraunt being busy. Rather, I suspect that the cooks were new at the time or otherwise having a very off day.

I would recomend trying it again, maybe in the summer when the patio is open, and ordering something other then the fish. It might be long enough that the kids would be willing to try it again and I think you would enjoy them very much on a good night.

2010 Jan 19
It is too late for "try again" - my wife swears she will not go back.

And honestly, should we really be expected to roll the dice again with another $100?

2010 Jan 19
I know how Zym feels. I had bad experience at this restaurant as well... This was over six months ago. The servers had told us that some of the top chefs had walked out a few days earlier causing some problems in the kitchen. We did complain about the food being more than subpart are received a "well I hope you'll come back". Now that it has been over 6 months, I'm still not sure...

The patio is very nice in the summer time, i'm thinking I might give this place a second chance... but I'll start with beer and some apps instead of a full out meal. I remember the beer being lovely.

2010 Jan 19
This is largely based on my personal experience, I have never had a poor meal from them, but rather had extraordinary service. The willingess to roll the dice for another $100 would largely depend on finances in my opinion, I am in a very comfortable place and personally would be willing to take such a risk if the situations were reversed. I am fully cogniscent that I may be an exceptional case.

I completely respect that it was a horrid experience, I simply believe that based on my history, that experience was not truely representative of the establishment. In my opinion at least, your milage may vary.

So summarize and get back to your original point, no, being busy is not a valid excuse for poor quality food or poor service.

2010 Jan 19
"The servers had told us that some of the top chefs had walked out a few days earlier causing some problems in the kitchen."

Heh... I've been told this at BDT as well.

The beer is so good that I'll always go back but the one word that comes to mind when this restaurant gets mentioned is "inconsistent". It's too bad to hear that, with the exception of Jagash's experience, they haven't changed in this regard.


2010 Jan 19
I'm curious what beers you guys are having - most of the British styles were pretty mediocre and this seemed to be the opinion around the table with the Brewers when we were there last week.

The Belgian styles were fantastic, on the other hand.

2010 Jan 19
I remember having the 'et la lumičre fut!' and i think it was one of my favs.

Pale ale - Golden with copper overtones. (as per website www.brasseursdutemps.com)

And I also had a dark coffee type stout that reminded me of a beer called corporal punishment i had a while back. Supposedly it was brewed in Ottawa.


2010 Jan 19
I ordered the Pale Ale the other night but ended up with the Nut Brown - which was pretty mediocre. The Best Better was as well.

I'll be back to try more of them in any case.

2010 Jan 19

Being relatively new to this site I was hesitant about commenting on this issue, however, after much consideration I decided not to remain silent. I would like to stress that I mean no hostility toward zym and his spouse, however, this review seem excessively harsh and petty.

"Butter came in commercial prepackaged plastic tubs — I expect this at a greasy spoon, but not at a place where our tab (with drinks) came to about $90.

The various sauces and ketchup for our entrees came in little plastic Dixie cups with covers — I had five of these on my plate alone. The dim lighting also made it difficult to distinguish between the mayo and tartar sauce. It was also not nearly enough ketchup for the amount of fries served.

We didn’t appear to have any price list for beverages other than alcohol — when out with the kids, I like to know how much a glass of milk is going to cost, for example. Particularly if they want two."

2010 Jan 19
I've mostly had the "lumičre" and think it's very, very nice. I can't remember the name of anything else I've tried (haven't been since late September) but everything was remarkably balanced, which is more my measuring stick than whether something fits within its intended style.


2010 Jan 19
Those were not my words Yan, they were my wife's, and while I did not think of that initially, I do have to agree with her on it completely. I think the little plastic things were just really cheesy especially given that they really tried to dress up the rest of the dishes and especially the sausage platter. They really put an effort into making the rest of it look fancy, and then serve those little cheap plastic things when really they could have been far better off with the little bakeware dishes like the kind we have in our cupboard that hold maybe 1/8th of a cup.

I would not mind getting those little plastic things at some of my regular places like Fil's Diner or whatever (who BTW do not use them - I'm just saying I would not mind getting them there). But I can go to Fil's and feed the whole family for 1/3 what I paid here. It is just a nice little touch that you expect when you pay so much for the food.

2010 Jan 20
We're glad to hear your comments Yan, but I think this time you're offbase. The quote from Zym that you post is by definition neither harsh or petty. The entire text is plainly factual (which is neither harsh nor petty) except the comment expressing opionion about the greasy spoon. That opinion I think is pretty realistic, as I think many people are turned off by butter and condiments that are prepackaged. If anything, we could accuse Zym of having unrealistic expectations ;-)

For those of us familiar with Zym, there is not a petty bone in his body, and if you can find a problem with his postings, he is the first to admit his mistakes.

2010 Jan 20
I just wanted to give my own perspective on the original topic; is being busy an excuse?

I've recently left the restaurant industry after working as a cook in Ottawa for 3 years. Although I haven't pursued culinary school, my interest in cooking has kept me in a work place where a knife and cutting board are always available on hand. In this time, I've worked for roughly six establishments; 4 are pubs with very similar menus, and 2 featured finer foods for a fair or moderate price. One example of the better restaurants I've worked for is the Black Tomato. Through out this time, I've worked as a line cook, prep supervisor and once as the kitchen manager. Now that I've educated you on my experience in the industry, I'll get on with my point.

Quality and consistency of food has to be the most important thing a chef must consider (health and safety in the kitchen is still a primary concern of course). Making sure that every meal leaves the kitchen well made is paramount even if it may take longer on a busy night. A restaurant's guests didn't come to play culinary lottery, they expect what they're paying for. I'd prefer to be told that my meal will be another 5 or 10 minutes, instead of receiving an apology to go with my under/over/poorly cooked dish.

I'd also like to point out that if you're ever told of "good cooks walking out" recently, then the kitchen could be better managed, and the food will suffer from time to time. Generally people don't walk out from their jobs unless they're miserably or feel unappreciated. If you ever hear that cooks have been walking out, by all means return to the establishment, but I'd avoid a busy day.