Taking pictures at restaurants. [General]

2009 Aug 19
RANT:
So, this Foodarazzi phenomena of incessantly taking pictures of individual courses at restaurants is getting out of hand.
On a recent trip to Atelier, it was ridiculously annoying and distracting(and rude) that half the tables were snapping pics of every single item, from multiple angles. With flashes. One particular table was holding up their courses because of their photo antics...
I don't mind some discreet pictures, but to me, doing so in an intrusive manner to other patrons is akin to yapping away loudly on a cell phone at a nice restaurant...

Put the camera down and enjoy the food and the experience.

2009 Aug 19
Was Pej Daddy at the other tables? :)

2009 Aug 19
ah, the amateur food-pornographer. some love it, some hate it. i like seeing the photos on this site of various meals - sort of a sneak preview - but i don't like dining beside the picture takers.

2009 Aug 19
Sounds to me like you should be paying more attention to the company at your table, and less attention to others. ADD?

I have some audio files exercises you can have :-)

2009 Aug 19
I don't mind some discreet pictures, but to me, doing so in an intrusive manner to other patrons is akin to yapping away loudly on a cell phone at a nice restaurant...

Agreed. Flash off, please and thank you. (Or at least acknowledge your actions when I give you the stare down).

2009 Aug 19
Daft Diner - Great rant!

Ok, as much as I love seeing food porn (really wets the appetite for a visit) I am always self-conscious about taking photos... to be honest I got the feeling it was a tad rude. So I try to do it quickly (1 shot per plate) and unobtrusively (absolutely no flash). And more often than not, even if I have my camera in tow (not so much on intown restaurant visits) but more likely than not when out of town on vacation or on one of our "Sunday Drives", I just feel too imposing and so skip the photo-shoot. Hence why you see so few pics with my Reviews.

2009 Aug 19
Flash photography in a restaurant is obnoxious, especially if it's every course, with multiple diners around you, in a semi-darkened room. That kind of stimuli is hard to filter out and distracting (even if the patron doesn't have ADHD).

2009 Aug 19
As far as I'm concerned, if I'm out for an expensive dinner-like Atelier,flash photography of each course of dinner is inconsiderate of other diners. I can handle one flash photo of people celebrating a special occasion or something but come on, be considerate of those around you.

Sure my attention is directed at my immediate company but a flash is distracting in dim light. I may as well be next to a loud drunk person or someone with an extremely obnoxious laugh.

Perhaps Atelier could address the issue by perhaps providing on line photo diaries of an evenings menu. Indeed their creations are amazing and worthy of photos. I thank those who have shared their photos of all the amazing dishes for those of us who have limited funds. However, I'd settle for nice descriptions if I knew it were at the expense of other diners.

2009 Aug 19
just to be a DA (devil's A---), if half the tables are doing it, can the practice still be considered rude?

Anyhoo, kind of surprised this rant hasn't been raised before. I'm generally too self-conscious, myself, and when i do take 'em, its almost always w/ a no flash iphone (crappy photos!). Also, i generally pretend i'm taking shots of my partner's boobs -- just to deflect attention from the possibility of me being an OF member.

I will say that as obnoxious as the trend may be, Pej Daddy gets an approving nod from moi.

2009 Aug 19
To clarify, I don't mind if you're taking photos, but it's the EXCESSIVE flash photography that's distracting (ie, every course, of a multi-course meal). That said, I have never had a meal ruined by excessive flash photog going on around me, but I do think I have a family photo kicking around somewhere, where we used flash and there's someone in the background giving our table the stink-eye. LOL

2009 Aug 19
Itchy, isn't DA devil's advocate, not a**?

I think it depends on how many people are doing it, and why, and where...like a lot of other etiquette based issues.

Example: Weddings. Sure, people can and will take photos of the cake and of other people and other food items. Acceptable. Totally.

But, if I'm out at dinner at Play and the guy next to me whips his out to show his dining companions how big it is (the lens, people) and then throws a flash on top and starts going at it, then I'm going to be kind of peeved.


2009 Aug 19
In a place with a dining room as small as Atelier's, it would be really distracting if several tables were more into flash photography that you know... eating the food.

2009 Aug 19
i don't usually post in the forums but a chance read through today led me to post a rare reply. i get equal about of praise as well as complaints so there really isn't much to gain for me being here nor do i seek validation. i make an effort to enjoy what chefs have to offer and try to promote the ones that impress and challenge as well as provide top notch service. while i am an avid photographer, i avoid flash and prefer available light. i also make every effort to be considerate to others by booking on an off-night and many times request private dining/exclusive service and enjoy the menu. many restaurants can attest upon my walking in, i order a vast array and also tip 40% to the occasional 100% of the bill when deserved. i don't ask for discounts or any special priviledges. i work hard and pay for the priviledge and am generous enough to share my experiences and also trade knowledge. i do what i want and i don't apologize; however, if you do not like my photographic postings on ottawa or toronto or whatever sites, just let me know and i will retain exclusively a backlog of perhaps thousands of photographs of great dishes waiting to be discovered. i will not put up with any negative energy from anyone as life is too short, just move on as there is so much more fantastic things to surround yourself with. much appreciation to those who offer sincerity; there's not too much of that going around. on the other hand, if you want my support i will back you up 100%.

2009 Aug 19
Zym, nice once. Classy.

2009 Aug 19
PD, i don't think anyone's critiquing you specifically: i'd say this is more a discussion about a general (and growing?) trend.

You get mentions (often with a smiley icons), i suspect, because you're a fixture and probably the hardest working photographer (and humorist) on the site. Plus you hang out with an oddly un-mean looking Gene Simmons.

interesting to hear about your photographic techniques (no flash and all that).


2009 Aug 19
Pej Daddy, I don't think that was an attack on you, personally. At the very least, I can say that I appreciate having your photos as a sneak peek, and I don't doubt for a moment that you are as considerate and courteous with regards to your photo taking as you are on the forum.

I don't think you should have reason to be offended and I think that everyone's rants should be taken as that: Rants, which were written as a gross generalization of amateur photographers who do not have respect for their fellow diners. You fall into that exception.

2009 Aug 19
Totally was not targeting Pej Daddy whatsoever, it's just a general observation of those that don't take measures to be discreet and respectful of others.

2009 Aug 19
When I go to a "memorable" restaurant, I usually try to get some memento to remember the evening by.

Just last weekend I found the menu I stole from Tabla (www.tablany.com/) in New York City six years ago to the day (No joke! August 19th 2003!), after what I felt was my first true "fine dining" experience.

I'll often bring a moleskine to scribble things in, or to offer to my dining companions to contribute to.

But I will likely want to augment my written thoughts with a picture (usually one per course) of the dishes I ate.

Why?

Part of it is practice: I want to use my camera as much as possible, since it's the best way to improve my technique.

Another part is practical: Maybe there's a neat plating that I want to use with a dish of my own. Or a specific way the ingredients are treated that just can't be written down succinctly.

But the most important part is because I really like looking back at the pictures and reminiscing about how good it all was.

I can't vouch for other people, but I believe that there are several people who think in a similar fashion.

I do try to take my pictures in as inobtrusive way as possible. Even though I take pride in my photography, I want to get it out of the way as quickly as possible so that I can get to eating the thing. A flash is a necessity to me (sorry, guys), because it's the only way to get a good picture in dimly-lit places like restaurants.

Each person has their own acceptability level for what is a reasonable amount of photography and what isn't. I find myself squarely in the middle between "photographs ruin the experience" and "photographs are the experience", and I hope that all viewpoints can be accommodated without it coming to blows.

(How about "photo" and "non-photo" sections for restaurants?)


2009 Aug 19
(How about "photo" and "non-photo" sections for restaurants?)

And I think that's the point that Pej Daddy brings up; he asks to be seated away from other patrons if he's planning on shooting the entire meal, or he goes on off nights.

2009 Aug 19
I like Pej Daddy's photos because he goes to places I can't afford :)

2009 Aug 19
I am a fan of taking pictures and almost always do it for a fine dining experience. Course names don't do much for me when remembering a meal but a pictures brings me right back - I can almost taste it all over again. One of my regrets was not doing this when I went to Per Se which is ranks among the very best food experiences of my life. I have not had the experience of others making a big splash when taking pictures. Myself, I always try to be discreet and I would only use a flash if no one were near me.

Cheers


2009 Aug 19
I generally like Pej Daddy's pics and verbiage about the various establishments that he's frequented, but I have to say PDaddy, your last post makes you sound like an egotistical, albeit well heeled brat. I personally do not think it is evil for photographs to be taken at a restaurant, but when it seems that you claim that you are immune to requiring consideration of others because you work hard, and pay 100% tips I find myself expressing disbelief. I expect that my reading of your post is not at all how you meant it, but I wouldn't be surprised if others read it the same way as well. Peace.

2009 Aug 19
i read it the same way p-i-o.

2009 Aug 19
Pej Daddy, you are one of the best things on this site - so please don't go!Trust me, there ARE people who really appreciate your pictures! So, if you feel comfortable taking them, then please do put them up!

I, for one, have never had the courage to take pictures of my meals in a restaurant. I don't know, I just feel awkward and I would feel a little embarrassed. But I know, if you really appreciate the food (and I'm sure you do, because you keep going back!) then, it's all in good fun. I only sat beside someone who was taking pictures once in a Korean restaurant, and it didn't bother me. I was glad that they were so fascinated with the food - it actually made me feel like I was eating something interesting which made me appreciate my meal so much more!

I'd like to co-sign with Zymurgist who essentially said "mind your own business and eat your damn food" lol.

and I also co-sign with pan bagnat - I definitely don't have the dough to go to Atelier yet so I really love seeing the pictures of their one-of-a-kind meals. "A picture tells a thousand words," and it doesn't leave much room for subjectivity.

And sorry, I can understand how Pej could feel like this post was directly targeted at him seeing as he just put up a bunch of pics from Atelier and often does. We all have opinions and that's fine and dandy, but I really feel like around here some people think their opinion outweighs others and that they have the last word for some reason. It's almost like some type of online foodie "power trip" lol. Sorry to say that, but that's how it seems and that's the only thing that turns me off of this site.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about that! Happy eating everyone!

2009 Aug 19
PIO, your reading was close to my first interpretation, but on a second read, i thought it just as easy to avoid drawing the conclusions you raise. I suggest that Pej's post is a condensed mish-mash of ideas, some perhaps contradictory. Yes, he does mention doing what he wants and not apologizing, but just as explicitly, he prefaces those points w/ his mention of making "every effort to be considerate" and not seeking special privileges, etc.

I suspect his post was possibly thrown up quickly, maybe at work(?), probably w/ not much word-smithing, perhaps as a quick response to his name being brought into the discussion?

In my alternate reading, then, i see Pej's references to "not apologizing" as applicable to taking photos, which many of us already consider a relatively benign activity to begin w/, not more socially-bereft behaviors (tripping waiters, berating chefs).

But who knows, perhaps he is an egotist? If he is, perhaps we can just hope, as you suggest, that he is well-healed -- boorish and ill-mannered egotists are so much worse! Peace back.

2009 Aug 19
I really think that it's the fact that we mentioned Pej's name in the discussion, albeit in total jest, that resulted in the last few forum posts.

sigh

I have many issues with your reply, Shag-a-delic, but honestly as Pej himself said, life is far too short and I'm sure you'd just think that I was on a foodie power trip. I'll save my breath this time.

----------------

I would however, be interested in whether Zymurgist and Pan Bagnat were saying what Shags thought they were saying; because that I think is the problem here in part...we can all read things differently as they pertain to us and take offence or use it to improve our argument (I'm as guilty as the next person).

Anyway, I sincerly hope that Pej isn't gone permanently, not because I think he's the best thing this site's got going, but because I think he contributes substantially and because I imagine that he is most considerate when he dines.

2009 Aug 19
Where's Monty - I want popcorn and I'd like to discuss Nikon v. Canon.

2009 Aug 19
I have to agree with the others, I didn't see Daft Diner's original comments as a slight against Pej Daddy - just a comment that Daft Diner was making on social norms, probably based on some experience he has had recently.

I for one have in the past commented to Pej that I like his pics. And oftentimes get more out of that aspect of his Restaurant Review, than the written word. And I enjoy his participation in OF.

I also appreciate the fact that he has told us he is quite considerate of others around him and doesn't use a flash (this for me, I would have to say would be the biggest issue for me... like others have said, using a flash is very distracting, and well rude IMO if it is ongoing).

Although I enjoy Pej's input in the Review Section, the above comments about how he approaches / is treated in a Restaurant, struck me in the same way as Pete-in-Ottawa... leaving a "bad taste" in my mouth... I am sorry Pej intended or not, you came off as quite "eliteist" with those remarks (the 40 to 100% tipping reference). It may be true... but that info should have remained private IMO.

That said, Pej admits this is his first Forum Post... so perhaps it should be "taken with a grain of salt" as being one of those "early posting" errors in judgement. Or maybe I am missing more significant info (like what Pej does for a living etc).

Daft Diner - As an aside to the original train of thought... I think all this general public restaurant photography is fall-out from the Blog-ists lifestyle. As has been remarked in the past on previous Forum topics, Professional Food Critics usually pay a visit to a Vendor, Draft a Review, and then sometime before publication the Newspaper sends a Photographer to the Vendor for pre-arranged pictures. Photos that are oftentimes taken at a prescribed time so as not to interrupt other clients. Always the professionals, that is the ultimate in consideration / politeness.

2009 Aug 19
Hehe.. just to be clear. I was not accusing PDaddy of being a brat, I merely thought that if he is going to get all defencive (when he didn't really need to be), he might like to know how his post was perceived, versus how I expect it was written. I am quite aware, and have experienced in the past my posts not being read exactly as I'd intended them, and was trying to forestall a flamewar.. not start one.

2009 Aug 19
lol... such a feeble language this English-thingie is.

2009 Aug 19
Zym> say something?
I forget
OH! doh!

I've been known to take pictures of my own food
I offer them to potential catering customers to view
and I have blogged them to my facebook

discrete cam and phonecam use is quite okay and often flattering to a Chef

more annoying and a rant I've had for the last 12 years are peeps incessantly chating on their cells while dining

back in Seattle (Bellevue) I considered installing a cell phone jammer in the resto but the technology was still new and very very spendy

unless, you are the parent(s) of a young child, spousal unit is expecting, diningmate is late, or you are Obama, put the bloody thing down!
show some respect for your diningmate and other diners!

*steps off soapbox, straightens Chefscoat, and walks away reaching for the martini shaker*

2009 Aug 19
Obi, you are making that martini for me....right?
(I really need one right now)

2009 Aug 19
yez'um
twist or olives?

2009 Aug 20
olives, please.

2009 Aug 20
3 and a wee splash of the brine

2010 Mar 11
I really don't think that this needs to be brought back up for a discussion, other than the fact that I'm headed to Atelier tomorrow night, and I saw this while searching for cultural theory (don't ask.)

2010 Mar 11
Go flashless to not bother other people too much. If you're going in a group, have ONE designated photographer or if you know you specifically want good pics, and with multiple people doing so, dine in off hours and don't be rude.