Swine Flu Outbreak [General]
2009 Apr 25
Potential link to factory farming. The title of that article makes a bold declaration ("Swine-flu outbreak linked to Smithfield factory farms") but the content indicates that the link is based on hearsay and speculation. Here are some tidbits:
"Is Smithfield Foods, the world’s largest pork packer and hog producer, linked to the outbreak? Smithfield operates massive hog-raising operations Perote, Mexico, in the state of Vera Cruz, where the outbreak originated."
"Residents [of Perote] believed the outbreak had been caused by contamination from pig breeding farms located in the area."
So the link isn't certain yet, but it's certainly plausible!
I'm getting nervous about this one, especially since I'm supposed to go to Arizona in a couple of weeks. :O
"Is Smithfield Foods, the world’s largest pork packer and hog producer, linked to the outbreak? Smithfield operates massive hog-raising operations Perote, Mexico, in the state of Vera Cruz, where the outbreak originated."
"Residents [of Perote] believed the outbreak had been caused by contamination from pig breeding farms located in the area."
So the link isn't certain yet, but it's certainly plausible!
I'm getting nervous about this one, especially since I'm supposed to go to Arizona in a couple of weeks. :O
2009 Apr 26
All I know is the news of this whole pandemic thing bothers me...
Question... In this modern world... Could one esentially live without human contact until the threat passes / thing is over? I've been thinking about this since I heard about how serious a threat this thing may pose from CBC (even good old Peter Manbridge, looked upset on this story). I mean the world now is a lot different from 1918 - Last Big Pandemic (or 1957 or 1968... last outbreaks).
- Work from home via the Internet
- Communication - Telephone, Computer, Skype etc
- Groceries - Delivery Service
- Banking etc - Online
Anyways you all get the drift...
Any thoughts?
Question... In this modern world... Could one esentially live without human contact until the threat passes / thing is over? I've been thinking about this since I heard about how serious a threat this thing may pose from CBC (even good old Peter Manbridge, looked upset on this story). I mean the world now is a lot different from 1918 - Last Big Pandemic (or 1957 or 1968... last outbreaks).
- Work from home via the Internet
- Communication - Telephone, Computer, Skype etc
- Groceries - Delivery Service
- Banking etc - Online
Anyways you all get the drift...
Any thoughts?
2009 Apr 26
Sure you can do it - but not if you have to get groceries delivered.
As I think I've mentioned before, I've got a good 6 or 8 months of food on hand. It's already paid off when I lost my job and didn't have to worry about feeding the family. But I have it on hand for a variety of reasons - this being one of them.
As I think I've mentioned before, I've got a good 6 or 8 months of food on hand. It's already paid off when I lost my job and didn't have to worry about feeding the family. But I have it on hand for a variety of reasons - this being one of them.
2009 Apr 26
BTW, you can expect our illustrious politicians to come out real soon now and urge people not to panic, and to "keep shopping". Because honestly, money is all they care about, and that everyone is doing their bit to keep the economy going and keep the McCains, Sobeys, and Loblaws ticking.
Of course this outbreak has the distinct potential to make a bad economy an awful lot worse, but that won't keep me from doing my part to ensure my family is safe.
And personally if I were you FF I'd be cancelling that trip to Arizona. Wouldn't get me near that border ...
Of course this outbreak has the distinct potential to make a bad economy an awful lot worse, but that won't keep me from doing my part to ensure my family is safe.
And personally if I were you FF I'd be cancelling that trip to Arizona. Wouldn't get me near that border ...
2009 Apr 26
Zym - "Not if you have to get groceries delivered"
Ok as I understand it, it is passed on thru human contact... face to face, hand to hand... so if you have groceries delivered and the guy leaves them on your doorstep, no contact. You clean and cook everything properly (? not sure here if this or isn't an issue).
I'm thinking that someone could actually do this no contact thing in this day and age... it's not like 1918... we have tv, internet, telephone, lots of ways to still carry on with the outside world. Ya might miss the outside world (thinking cabin fever might be more of an issue than any other illness), but you would have your immediate family (those you live with) around you, and you'd know they too were generally safe (well as safe as you are).
I'm thinking back to the day... stories I've heard from my Grandparents, Great Aunts (who were nurses around that time) etc, how a house would be quarantined (of course this was once someone was ill) but isolation was known to be an effective measure.
(Photo Nurses Grad Class 1918 - Cornwall General Hospital School of Nursing)
Ok as I understand it, it is passed on thru human contact... face to face, hand to hand... so if you have groceries delivered and the guy leaves them on your doorstep, no contact. You clean and cook everything properly (? not sure here if this or isn't an issue).
I'm thinking that someone could actually do this no contact thing in this day and age... it's not like 1918... we have tv, internet, telephone, lots of ways to still carry on with the outside world. Ya might miss the outside world (thinking cabin fever might be more of an issue than any other illness), but you would have your immediate family (those you live with) around you, and you'd know they too were generally safe (well as safe as you are).
I'm thinking back to the day... stories I've heard from my Grandparents, Great Aunts (who were nurses around that time) etc, how a house would be quarantined (of course this was once someone was ill) but isolation was known to be an effective measure.
(Photo Nurses Grad Class 1918 - Cornwall General Hospital School of Nursing)
2009 Apr 27
If I had less meat in my freezer, I would be taking the chance to throw money at "The Piggy Market" to help them through the enevitable sales slump. I suppose that I could still acquire some backbacon from them.
I'm not that worried really. There is a chance of the plague striking, but that is the nature of life. *shrug*
While I appreciate Grist, they do have a well-meaning bias against factory farming. I have heard this is a combination of avian influenza and swine variants, meaning that part of the problem came from those two species being brought into excessive contact. One of the few positive elements about factory farms vs disease is that most factory farms specialize in one particular species. The more traditional small farms will have a greater likelyhood of differnt species in close contact for viral host jumps.
I'm not that worried really. There is a chance of the plague striking, but that is the nature of life. *shrug*
While I appreciate Grist, they do have a well-meaning bias against factory farming. I have heard this is a combination of avian influenza and swine variants, meaning that part of the problem came from those two species being brought into excessive contact. One of the few positive elements about factory farms vs disease is that most factory farms specialize in one particular species. The more traditional small farms will have a greater likelyhood of differnt species in close contact for viral host jumps.
2009 Apr 27
Jagash - I don't think it is quite that simple. Traditional farms have several orders of magnitude fewer the number of animals per acre and are therefore not nearly as prone to this sort of thing. Pigs and chickens come together all the time at the factory slaughterhouses. That is where they are ground up to be fed back to each other, too, a practice which to my best recollection is still legal in Canada even though as I recall feeding a species back to itself directly, is not. My local farmers do not do this, either. Their animals remain true to their natural vegetarianism.
2009 Apr 27
Well they eat bugs of course. Chickens at least don't normally eat pigs or cows in their diet. Not even sure you'd see one trying to eat a mouse. What else am I missing? Certainly a pig would probably eat a mouse or something small like that, and bugs of course. But I doubt it would eat a chicken - maybe I wild boar I suppose?
2009 Apr 27
Don't get me wrong, there are a laundry list of different problems with factory farming and as an ecologist, I know a number of them. In order for the virus to make the jump between species, an infected individual from one species needs to get in contect with another individual from a second species. Additionally, the virus needs to be capable of infecting the second species, something which has a minute chance in any given viral load. Considering that most of the extremely high viral loads are in clearly infected animals, it is less likely that the highest danger individuals will be processed into feed.
The two main ways that the virus would usually be transmitted would either be direct feeding (More likely in factory farm) or cohabitation (more likely in traditional farming situations). Considering that some traditional farmers do still provide protien to their animals in that way, and that you get continual exposure in cohabitation situations, leads me to believe that traditional farming may lead to higher chances of the species jump. Once it has made the jump however, factory farms result in a _dramatically_ larger number of infected inviduals from the second species.
I am strongly of the opinion that animals ought to be fed a diet appropriate to their species. Granivores ought to be fed grain, herbivores plants and omnivores their generalized mix of animal and plant matter. Cows being fed other cows or pigs fed nothing but corn are disgraceful and dangerous over the long run.
It also should be mentioned that "traditional farming" is a wide spectrum from a modern style antibiotic corn-loving pesticide heavy independent farming family (not upto the economies of scale in factory farming) all the way to the single organic farmer and his 3 acres of mixed crops which he plows by hand with only a draft horse for aid. Those more on the organic end of things tend to be safer and healthier on the long run. I am painting the "traditional farming" with an intentionally broad brush because the categories are extremly wide.
Please read my entire post with some salt. While I am an environment-minded ecologist, I am not a trained epidimiologist and my knowledge of virology is quite limited compared to those formally trained in the field.
The two main ways that the virus would usually be transmitted would either be direct feeding (More likely in factory farm) or cohabitation (more likely in traditional farming situations). Considering that some traditional farmers do still provide protien to their animals in that way, and that you get continual exposure in cohabitation situations, leads me to believe that traditional farming may lead to higher chances of the species jump. Once it has made the jump however, factory farms result in a _dramatically_ larger number of infected inviduals from the second species.
I am strongly of the opinion that animals ought to be fed a diet appropriate to their species. Granivores ought to be fed grain, herbivores plants and omnivores their generalized mix of animal and plant matter. Cows being fed other cows or pigs fed nothing but corn are disgraceful and dangerous over the long run.
It also should be mentioned that "traditional farming" is a wide spectrum from a modern style antibiotic corn-loving pesticide heavy independent farming family (not upto the economies of scale in factory farming) all the way to the single organic farmer and his 3 acres of mixed crops which he plows by hand with only a draft horse for aid. Those more on the organic end of things tend to be safer and healthier on the long run. I am painting the "traditional farming" with an intentionally broad brush because the categories are extremly wide.
Please read my entire post with some salt. While I am an environment-minded ecologist, I am not a trained epidimiologist and my knowledge of virology is quite limited compared to those formally trained in the field.
2009 Apr 27
Just a note on chickens - having spent some time in a hatchery as a youth, chickens will eat their own eggs in a second! Drop one of those babies and you are surrounded by 50 chickens in a flash. (I suppose the number would be less in a non-factory environment, but I'm pretty sure all chickens will try to eat up a broken egg). So not only omnivores - BABY EATERS! - shame shame chickens!
zymurgist
www.grist.org