a section for shameless self-promotion? [Site]

2009 Feb 11
i'm wondering, and i don't know if there are others who feel the same, but if it would possible to add a category to the forum...soemthing to the effect of "shameless self-promotion" or "shill", but nicer ("advertising" would do the trick).

i don't know about the rest of you in the OF community, but I find it a bit annoying to open a forum post that i think will interest me only to find that it's shilling.

i'm not against marketing, and i understand that one of the best ways when your business is new that marketing it to people in every and any way is crucial to your success. on the other hand, an "advertisement" category would at least help create some level of transparency on the matter without having to click to find out what a post is about.

obviously there's still risk of people promoting in the reviews section, but i feel like there has to be a way to make the site run more smoothly in terms of spam and advertisement posters (as opposed to people like OliversRock who use this site for personal and professional use).

anyone? anyone? bueller? anyone?

2009 Feb 11
I'd guess that if there were a Category "Advertising", an advertiser wouldn't choose it anyhow (i.e. if they took Advertising 101).
Would it mean more work for Fresh Foodie changing the Category to that after the fact? No fair! (No way!)
Spam/the unrelated seem to be quickly deleted from the list now (thank you FF).

I think if a site or business is food-related and they put a good descriptor in the Topic section AND choose the fitting Category, it can/does work well as it is.

By the way, if you scan down the Forum list, the best-fitting Category for topics isn't always chosen...or a good descriptor under Topic for that matter (which would really help with searching).
So my suggestion of thoughtful Topic descriptor PLUS fitting Category applies to everyone. :)

But how about a Dream Category? Kidding!

2009 Feb 11
AMR, point taken. I think my post was more to get the annoyance off my chest--I know it's not realistic for this site to be flawless (at least not as long as it's Fresh Foodie's hobby, rather than job). But it would be nice if there was someway of archiving forum posts when you're logged in, or somehow making it so that users have control over whhich forum posts they see (sort of like a favouriting system--the same way you can favourite a vendor, favouriting a forum post to remind yourself its there later on).

2009 Feb 11
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2009 Feb 11
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I'm such a propellerhead ... I miss the 'Ol Ranch ... BNR ... Big Nerd Ranch. Hehehehehe

2009 Feb 11
Well, I've probably been one of the most out-spoken against SHILLING on this Website. I just don't understand the reason why people come here and feel they have to either (a) go on and on about their biz venture (or their "friends") without coming clean about who they are and being open and truthful, or (b) can't find a way to do so tactfully.

Some of the best examples of Posters here who have a classy way of promoting their businesses are: Chocoholic, OliversRock, Koko as well as many others who tactfully on occasion mention their personal interests in businesses, trade shows, etc.

I also think that in recent months things have gotten somewhat worse, as this website gets more well known.

I am also unsure if a "category" like advertising would be useful... and I do appreciate that Fresh Foodie and others do their best in outing the facts on these advertisers (gotta laugh because sometimes it isn't that difficult, and even I can see thru their thin disguise), in the end keeping those that are indeed food related, and deleting those who are clearly spamming.

That said, I do think that sometimes things are handled unevenly. For example, long time poster Chocoholic nicely groups all the posts for the Chinese Cooking Studio under one topic heading "Hands on Cooking Classes", where one can browse or skip as they see fit. On the other hand, recent poster Pitt who posted a variety of topics in January (5 of which) directly promoted Groovy Grapes - Groovy Grapes... a group I would assume he is clearly affiliated with. I think his posts should be subjected to the same parameters as Chocoholics and be listed in one topic (ie. Groovy Grapes Upcoming Events).

To quote a "foodie" expression:
What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander!

2009 Feb 12
As much as I hate spam most of the advertisements here are relevant to the foodie community - even if some of them aren't forthcoming about really being an ad.

It's not like there's posts about cheap viagra or lost millions in a Nigerian trust account :P

An "advertisement" category wouldn't hurt I suppose...

2009 Feb 12
monty, although I haven't encountered viagra or trust account scam-spam, I have removed posts advertising knock-off Nike's and other non-food related products. I leave the food ones if they are local or interesting (the last is highly subjective of course). :)

The whole problem with the "advertisement" category is that the people who should use it, won't. I could manually move stuff there, but it overlaps heavily with existing categories (Events and Food/Vendor)...

2009 Feb 14
I wonder how feasible it is to require vendors to submit to a stricter set of parameters than what "regular contributors" would follow themselves? I ask noting:

--the site's primary mandate, as reflected in the banner, is "connecting [people] to good food".
--"classy" and "tactful" are highly nuanced and subjective, and for some users, irrelevant to the task of getting themselves connected to good food.
--the site has no explicit (that i can see) mandate on full disclosure / revealing associations, and beyond an emphasis on the "positive", there's little in the way of defined "acceptable posting standards" (for vendors).
--there's numerous threads inviting input from vendors, and overall, the site has a vibe that's somewhat friendly toward that group (at least some).
--there's more than a couple threads in which regular contributors announce events, summarize new product lines, etc., in ways that could be interpretted as gently trickling over the "info-tisement" boundary.

i'd take the last point further and suggest that on a site, run as a hobby and w/ a bias toward the positive, we're all shills to some extent, whether we share in the revenue of the places we support or gather other (more altruistic) rewards. None of the above is a criticism of the site's structure, btw. Rather, its an appreciation of the current open-ended orientation and relative lack of regulation (self-restraint aside).

That noted, were it the will of the masses (and esp. the site owner), i'd suggest something like a simple addendum to the "Help" file that i) welcomes input from vendors and ii) warns them to preserve their reps by refraining from thinly veiled "hey i just discovered this GREAT xyz" type of posts.

2009 Feb 14
...I hope my recent enthusiastic comments, especially in the chocolate areas, aren't looking like thinly-veiled advertisements! :) I'm still trying to learn the lay of the place, and I can get rather effusive at times. I do like the site though. (Obviously, since I joined. :))

2009 Feb 15
hehe, Niall, effusive is good and while i'm not a chocolate aficionado (like my spouse), its hard not to enjoy reading / learning from someone's passion. Also, i tend to think Quebec-side patisseries are an under-explored topic here, so kudos to that, as well.

back to the thread, perhaps i should refrain from posting on V-Day. My response came off crankier than intended--perhaps tinged by a personal contempt for the Day's commercially-saturated contrivances. back to regular programming.

2009 Feb 15
I've already given FF what I think is a really great way to include vendors in the site. It was a venture I was involved in almost 15 years now when the WWW was first born. But it was to prove to be an idea before it's time. And it is actually related to that other "cheap tonight" site but not precisely the same thing. So if FF eventually comes out with it, rest assured that he had the idea in his head long before seeing that site (I gave it to him shortly after I signed up here)

I still think it's a good idea, and something that would generate revenue for FF as well. No, I'm not going to elaborate at the moment :-)

2009 Feb 15
zymurgist, it isn't something I plan to do. If I were to earn money directly from vendors in any way at all the neutrality of this site would be in question. Right now, I'm not obligated to any financial supporters and I quite like it that way. :)

2009 Feb 16
Way ta go FF !!

Like Obama not letting the lobbyists set the agenda in Washington, I'm delighted to see FF is not going to let the food venders/lobbyists set the agenda here at Ottawa Foodies.

Long live the democratization of the web .... and this site !


2009 Feb 16
FF, I like the way the site is now so if it aint broken dont fix!!
As for vendors creeping in , I think we are all smart enough to know when it occurs and dismiss the comments accordingly.

2009 Feb 16
zymurgist/FF - so what was the idea?

2009 Feb 17
Basically just create another section in addition to "buzz" and "forums", and call it something like "vendors". Make restaurants pay a small fee to get an account there, and give them the tools to put up their menu and offer weekly specials. Users could subscribe to the specials if they wanted. And could browse the vendors details. Nothing earth-shattering.