Kosher Caesar [Recipes]
2008 Dec 27
Well, I don't know for sure of a specific clam juice substitute, but whenever I need to add a slightly "fishy" flavour to vegetarian stuff (such as in things that traditionally require anchovies like salad dressings or pastas), I use capers. Maybe a splash of caper juice or a small dab of blended capers or caperberries?
Also, the Cooks Thesaurus suggests equal parts vegetable/fish/chicken broth and water, but that might be weird in a cocktail...
The only other thing I an think of would maybe be asian fish sauce or maybe a few bonito flakes(not 100% sure if these are kosher but they are made from fish with fins and scales so they may be)? Both are high in umami so they may add the depth of flavour you're missing.
Also, the Cooks Thesaurus suggests equal parts vegetable/fish/chicken broth and water, but that might be weird in a cocktail...
The only other thing I an think of would maybe be asian fish sauce or maybe a few bonito flakes(not 100% sure if these are kosher but they are made from fish with fins and scales so they may be)? Both are high in umami so they may add the depth of flavour you're missing.
2009 Jan 5
Irish Potatoes - I think that Food is Hot has given you some good ideas... you need to find a way to dilute just straight tomatoe juice, and also to incorporate some zip. I would try experimenting with either vegetable, fish, or chicken broth (as per the Cooks Thesaurus) and perhaps a dash of caper juice or pickle juice (for the zip). Sadly though, I don't think you'll ever be able to match the uniqueness of Clamato Juice that only clams can give.
As an aside, on my recent visit to the USA, I was pleasantly surprised to find that more and more stores have Clamato Juice in stock (WalMart in particular). And as always, I was able to convince an American to try our beloved Caesar... he said he liked it (the zip vs just a regular Bloody Mary). Sadly, so many Americans don't even try it... they just can't get past the words "clam juice". Oh well... all the more for me.
As an aside, on my recent visit to the USA, I was pleasantly surprised to find that more and more stores have Clamato Juice in stock (WalMart in particular). And as always, I was able to convince an American to try our beloved Caesar... he said he liked it (the zip vs just a regular Bloody Mary). Sadly, so many Americans don't even try it... they just can't get past the words "clam juice". Oh well... all the more for me.
2009 Jan 6
Bonito flakes are definitely not 'certified' kosher, though, the use of tuna is not prohibited necessarily, so bonito should be ok. Check out: kosherfood.about.com
Also, complete side note, but capers DO NOT taste fishy to me at all. In fact, I think it's a common myth, since they are so commonly associated with seafood sauces & garnish. Correct me if I'm wrong (or my palette), but they taste more briny, salty, almost uncured-olive-like?
Also, complete side note, but capers DO NOT taste fishy to me at all. In fact, I think it's a common myth, since they are so commonly associated with seafood sauces & garnish. Correct me if I'm wrong (or my palette), but they taste more briny, salty, almost uncured-olive-like?
2009 Jan 6
They taste fishy to me (*shrug*)- mind you they taste like salty briney fish such as anchovies as opposed to fresh salmon or something- which makes sense since they are briney and salty. Obviously they are not going to taste EXACTLY like fish but IMO they are a good substitute for a veg option.
2009 Jan 6
I agree with Chimichimi at least to my taste buds Capers taste briney (something like olives) vs fishy. But I also know that a lot people who are unfamiliar with capers who indeed believe they are in the fish family.
As I said earlier I'd go with the broth option and a dash of caper or pickle juice, both of these should be relatively easy to come by in kosher format at a grocery store (probably easier than kosher bonito flakes).
As an aside... making a Caesar Salad kosher is just as problematic... even without the bacon. As comedian Henny Youngman would say "Oy, what's a jew to do?"
As I said earlier I'd go with the broth option and a dash of caper or pickle juice, both of these should be relatively easy to come by in kosher format at a grocery store (probably easier than kosher bonito flakes).
As an aside... making a Caesar Salad kosher is just as problematic... even without the bacon. As comedian Henny Youngman would say "Oy, what's a jew to do?"
2009 Jan 6
Food&Think, I'm betting that people who are unfamiliar with capers and believe them to be in the fish family are likely confusing "capers" with "capelins" and "kippers," both of which are in fact edible fish. :-)
Now say this three times quickly: If Kipling kippered capelins with a capful of capers in a copper cornucopia, how many kippered capelins could Kipling keep in a copper cup?
Now say this three times quickly: If Kipling kippered capelins with a capful of capers in a copper cornucopia, how many kippered capelins could Kipling keep in a copper cup?
2009 Jan 7
Pan Bagnat - Anchovies do indeed qualify as kosher (has scales & fins), but finding a anchovy paste that is certified kosher (the fish having been processed in the kosher manner and with kosher utensils) could be a problem.
As for adding anchovy paste to a Caesar in lieu of clam juice... I think it would end up too fishy. IMO in a classic Caesar the clam juice's primary role is thinning down the otherwise very thick and heavy tomato juice... it's secondary role is the zip (although the zip can be obtained other ways... even the worchestire sauce provides some of that). I think that broth (vegetable or chicken for a Caesar) is the way to go... I think about a Bullseye Cocktail (made with beef bullion) and it tastes fine and refreshing.
Irish Potatoes - My comment above made me do a Google Search, and I came up with a drink called the Bloody Bull - www.cocktail.uk.com and another called a Bullshot #4 from the Webtender www.webtender.com both are fairly close to a traditional Caesar (just based on a quick read thru of the recipes I think the Bloody Bull is probably the closest), and if all the ingredients check out, it might be the perfect replacement drink for your friend.
To make it less "beefy" I'd personally mix up the beef bullion beforehand (the instructions are not that clear on this part) and let it cool then chill it in the fridge before adding it to the drink. As I said, I think the bullion will thin down the Tomato Juice and add some zip as well.
Cheers!
As for adding anchovy paste to a Caesar in lieu of clam juice... I think it would end up too fishy. IMO in a classic Caesar the clam juice's primary role is thinning down the otherwise very thick and heavy tomato juice... it's secondary role is the zip (although the zip can be obtained other ways... even the worchestire sauce provides some of that). I think that broth (vegetable or chicken for a Caesar) is the way to go... I think about a Bullseye Cocktail (made with beef bullion) and it tastes fine and refreshing.
Irish Potatoes - My comment above made me do a Google Search, and I came up with a drink called the Bloody Bull - www.cocktail.uk.com and another called a Bullshot #4 from the Webtender www.webtender.com both are fairly close to a traditional Caesar (just based on a quick read thru of the recipes I think the Bloody Bull is probably the closest), and if all the ingredients check out, it might be the perfect replacement drink for your friend.
To make it less "beefy" I'd personally mix up the beef bullion beforehand (the instructions are not that clear on this part) and let it cool then chill it in the fridge before adding it to the drink. As I said, I think the bullion will thin down the Tomato Juice and add some zip as well.
Cheers!
2009 Jan 7
Yeah, I thought about the fishiness of anchovy paste.
Another suggestion I have is just substitute Mr and Mrs T's Bloody Mary Mix. It's only available in the US though. I love Clamato. Hate V8 or Tomato Juice. I can never manage to choke down a bloody mary but Mr and Mrs T's is great in my opinion. It's not as thick as plain tomato juice.
Another suggestion I have is just substitute Mr and Mrs T's Bloody Mary Mix. It's only available in the US though. I love Clamato. Hate V8 or Tomato Juice. I can never manage to choke down a bloody mary but Mr and Mrs T's is great in my opinion. It's not as thick as plain tomato juice.
2009 Jan 7
Pan Bagnat - I'm not a Bloody Mary fan, I'm a confirmed Caesar drinker... can't as you say "choke down" tomato juice, that said, you've peeked my curiousity, I'll pick up some Mr & Mrs T's on my next trip to the US. I'm now anxious to compare it to the other mixes (tomato, clamato, V8, veggie cocktail).
2009 Jan 31
Folks,
I played with your ideas a couple times. The stock idea was extremely helpful. In the end, she found beef stock a bit "beefy", but chicken stock seemed to work really well. I never tried vegetable, although it would probably cut down on the salt.
The final recipe was chicken stock, pickle brine, tomato juice and the usual ceasar ingredients. It was pretty close, certainly much better than bloody mary's. I wasn't too particular, but it worked out to about 1/2 juice, a bit more than a quarter stock and then brine.
Thanks for all your help.
I played with your ideas a couple times. The stock idea was extremely helpful. In the end, she found beef stock a bit "beefy", but chicken stock seemed to work really well. I never tried vegetable, although it would probably cut down on the salt.
The final recipe was chicken stock, pickle brine, tomato juice and the usual ceasar ingredients. It was pretty close, certainly much better than bloody mary's. I wasn't too particular, but it worked out to about 1/2 juice, a bit more than a quarter stock and then brine.
Thanks for all your help.
2009 Jan 31
yes unless you are used to bloody bulls they can throw you off
perhaps you could try my vegan version of caesar:
V8
horseradish to taste
pinch dill
pinch oregano
1/4 tsp freshly chopped garlic
worchestershire (vegetarian or not if it does not matter) to taste
tabasco to taste or scotch bonnet sauce if you are me
tablespoon garliky dill pickle juice
and copious amounts of black pepper
dash Old Bay seasoning instead of celery salt
cheers
perhaps you could try my vegan version of caesar:
V8
horseradish to taste
pinch dill
pinch oregano
1/4 tsp freshly chopped garlic
worchestershire (vegetarian or not if it does not matter) to taste
tabasco to taste or scotch bonnet sauce if you are me
tablespoon garliky dill pickle juice
and copious amounts of black pepper
dash Old Bay seasoning instead of celery salt
cheers
2009 Jan 31
Irish Potatoes - Glad you guys found a happy medium. I will give your Kosher Caesar a try and let you know what I think. BTW, you guys obviously have a great friendship, in that you are both open & willing to find new ways to solve life's issues. Congratulations!
Chef Obi - This conversation and Irish Potatoes' dilemma has been fun to play with (she got some great ideas IMO). Although I can't say I am a big V8 fan (definitely more of a Clamaoto kind of gal) but in the interest of science, I am going to try out this Vegan Caesar because everything else sounds so good... I'll let you know what I think.
Chef Obi - This conversation and Irish Potatoes' dilemma has been fun to play with (she got some great ideas IMO). Although I can't say I am a big V8 fan (definitely more of a Clamaoto kind of gal) but in the interest of science, I am going to try out this Vegan Caesar because everything else sounds so good... I'll let you know what I think.
Irish Potatoes