ottawa foodies

Recently Del Monte has closed their Canadian fruit processing plant. This is another example of a large multii national food company choosing cheap food over food security and local food. This closing will hugely affect Candian peach and pear growers and our ability to source Canadian product. I truly think we need to write letters to companies like Del Monte and Hershey's when they close plants and vote with our wallets when they don't respond.

There was quite a lot of coverage on this particular fruit processing plant (the last one in Canada) on the CBC. The government (provincial I believe) was more willing to pay the farmers to rip out their trees rather than help them take over the plant to process their own fruit. The cost was only about 5 million dollars. This would have ensured a lot of farmers remained viable (ie lots of local jobs too), helped with our national food security and enabled Canadians to buy truly canadian produce. This all came to pass just as the Federal government just passed legislation about labelling, clarifying where the product really originates. You will unlikely be able to buy any canned Canadian fruit. This is frustrating beyond belief!

Not to nitpick too much, but... The plant that closed was owned by CanGro, which is owned by some big American food conglomerate. That company is licensed to sell under the Del Monte brand, they are not the owners of the brand. As far as affecting our ability to source Canadian peaches, it might actually increase the supply... depending of course whether you want fresh or canned. Demand for canned fruit (esp peaches) is down (i.e. WE AREN'T BUYING THEM). Peaches occupy a nasty niche, where the canned version does not really compare with the fresh version, AND unlike apples and pears they do not store well. It was the federal government I believe that was offering to rip up the trees, but I don't think that offer was specific to this event, but rather was a current subsidy policy.

Back to my claim on increasing supply. Unlike pears and apples, the kind of peaches you want to can, are not the kind you want to eat fresh. The farmers in question, if I remember, were quoted as saying they were ripping out their trees for canning fruit, to replace with trees for fresh produce fruit. If we're not buying canned peaches, and we are buying fresh peaches, I can't exactly see what all the drama is about other than some anti-globalisation chest thumping and fear mongering.

I certainly qualify as an anti globalization chest thumper, and initially I was unhappy about this news. But I for one never buy canned fruit so it's not like I will personally be too disappointed with this. And the flip side is that I am one of the people responsible for it BECAUSE I don't buy canned fruit.

I think beyond the anti globalization chest thumping there are a couple of bigger issues. Tinned fruit has always been a stand by for me in the winter to make salsas and chutneys when local fresh was not available. The fruit packed in juice not sirop was of a good quality and perfectly suited for this. I have always found a lack of decent frozen fruit for these sorts of things since most of it is imported. It will take 4 years for the farmers to turn their trees around and even then the fruit will be available for maybe 1 month - 6 weeks. Do you really think that the big supermarket chains are going to support local when they can get cheaper fruit elsewhere? I guess I'm spoiled since having moved to salt Spring I have easier acces to fresh fruits and veg but I still think it is important for these types of Canadian endeavours to be kept alive. Thnks Pete for the heads up on Can gro. Also these types of tinned fruits have always been an excellent source of inexpensive fruit for the urban poor.

I wasn't trying to criticize anti-globalisation itself, just to be clear. It just seemed to me that this was a news story, while unforunate in nature, not one that most of us (barring you B-t-C) are affected by. There are some aspects of anti-globalisation (and no, am totally not tarring you with this brush Zym) that are akin to consumer racism. I know people that proudly sport 'they don't buy from china, cause it's all crap', and that is not a sentiment that makes sense to me. I try to buy from places that provide the best product, and I try to make quality matter. In the case of peaches, fresh or canned, I think that it would be pretty hard for an arbitrary Chinese (or even European) producer to beat the quality we can produce in Niagara. However, many fine things are made there. My coat, made with fancy dancy fabric designed and made in Switzerland, is tailored in China, and I can guarantee you it is has 'quality sewn into it's seams'. I believe, when we buy 'the cheapest we can find', we are supporting the seamier side of globalisation, and that when we buy 'quality', we are supporting the more appropriate side of globalisation, where places or people who excel at a craft can find a market for it around the world. I think we need to stop marketing the difficulties around a global economy as 'don't buy China, it's anti-Canadian, and the product is crap', and instead teach people to care about the quality of products they consume. Of course we can toss a few environmental, and perhaps labour concerns into the global salad, and I think we might have a system that should work pretty fairly.

Fair ?

When it comes to 'The Distribution of Wealth", what can ya say ?

Globalization Schmoobalization .... My Agribusiness Mutual Fund is doing reeeeeeal well.

And it contains nice chunks of the Del Monte Foods Company, Chiquita and Monsanto.

Globalization Schmoobalization ... If ya can't beat'em, might as well join'em !

Don't forget .... we live so well, because they live so poorly !!

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How does Captain Caper sleep at night ?

OK, I'm going to "pull a Captain Caper" and post an image of "yet another Chinese toy recall" :-)

I believe in supporting local business as much as possible. That means the guy down the street vs the guy across town. By extension this means Ottawa/Gatineau vs Toronto. But it also means up-state New York vs Vancouver.

Just asked Mark to delete my profile from the site. Bye guys, I guess we share different philosophies regarding food.

regards

Bruce

Bruce, don't fold yet! I'd say that you and I at least share very similar views on food, from what little I've heard from you so far. Please hang around so we can keep these other guys in check :-) Having differing points of view is important!

To Bruce:

Adiós
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To The Remaining Ottawa Foodies:
My entry under this topic dated July 30, 5:42pm had a picture of a starving child to add 'punch' and some realism to what the globalization of agribusiness is actually doing.

The picture has been removed.

I wonder if Bruce's pouting has led to the (very first ever) censoring of a Captain Caper (Ottawa Foodie) posting.

Captain Caper: I'm sure I've censored at least one of your photos before. :) This latest photo might have been appropriate if your accompanying commentary had been sympathetic to the child but the way it came across (intentional or not) was callous and quite horrible.

Being on the internet means the whole world is watching us. We are all diplomats in a way.

Bruce - I hope you still lurk as there is at least another who seems to share you're food philosophy. The discussions are much more interesting (and eye-opening) when there is a wide variety of opinions.

When our family shops for food (and that includes canned peaches in the winter as they do bring in a taste of summer - albeit quite different from fresh), we try to keep as local as possible. I have nothing against any particular place, but try to support local, provincial, country as much as possible.

Looking at the bigger picture is a part of what our family is trying to do, so when another Canadian source is eliminated because a large multinational thinks it is better to ship fruit from half a world away in order to satisfy the "cheaper is better way" - I find it rather disheartening.

Bruce, fwiw, i'm one of the others who didn't pipe in on this thread who might agree with aspects of what you are saying. I think you've raised some good points re. finding multinat's accountable that, through whatever process, are able to influence shifts in local production patterns and then pull up when profits fall below certain thresholds. i can also agree w/ aspects of PIO's and Zym's perspectives ... and maybe even Captain Caper's to a less extent (don't want to alienate our local photo-documentarian). Anyway, my point would be that the disagreements in this thread might be "internal" to a broader Ottawa Foodies paradigm, one that values (as one example) the existence of chefs committed to following ethical practices, using local ingredients, sharing points of view, etc. I do despise you for living in paradise, though. :)

and also fwiw, i viewed CC's original thread, with the photo in tact, as intentionally jarring of the we're all complicit, self-confessional sort. I didn't take offense (well, maybe a bit w/ the reductionism in the "don't forget" statement), but he was provocative. just my $0.02.

Hey itchy feet !!! You sooooooo get it !! (and you saw the picture)

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You.

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Provocative (and not offensive) was where I was trying to go,

It is hard for me, or should I say the complicit, to look a starving child in the eyes and not feel ... mmmmmmm ... let's say 'uncomfortable'.

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And on a lighter note: I always thought reductionism had something to do with making demi-glaze.

hey CC I guess when I first saw the picture I reacted rather viscerally and after taking time to cool down and reading your other posts your intention (not unlike some of the editorial cartoons in the Globe) was to shock and provoke thought. One of the greta thing about forums like OF are discussions like these. And there will always be two sides to every discussion.

Bruce... I'm glad you're still here.

My 2 cents Canadian on this topic...

Ok, I saw all the posts, and the picture from Captain C, and at the time I did take offence. I guess I was unable to hear the sarcasm or see his tongue firmly planted in his cheek at the time... rather I read it as being callous (but I think now that that might have been partially because of the shock impact of the photo that accompanied the words)... which I now understand was the effect he was going for. At the time, I thought it was a rather "out there kind of thing" and supported Fresh Foodies decision to intervene and remove the photo, I also made the decision that it was appropriate for myself not to post further comments in the topic until things had cooled off.

I think what we have to remember is that everyone here has different points of views about things, and anything that could be interpreted as hurtful or bullying is not being "neighbourly". I have felt that. So I for one was saddened by the fact that Bruce was thinking of leaving (glad to see he isn't) as I enjoy his posts and his point of view on a variety of topics, and I understand that I am not going to agree 100% of the time with any one poster (not even myself... even my mind can be changed, LOL).

When I joined this site I did it to chit-chat about food over a cup of coffee, it was a "relaxing break" from the rest of the world... little did I know food could be so political. But I do enjoy other's perspectives, and I am tolerable of those opinions that are different from my own, because I understand that ones values and beliefs are formed over a long period of time, and life experiences. For example, I personally know that there are people in the world who eat dog meat, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I am not going to leap up on a soapbox and tell the other person that in no uncertain terms they are wrong... because I understand that (a) that is their personal foodie choice, and (b) that that choice comes about because of some sort of experience or belief in their life. And that my belief is based on my history (whereby a dog is a pet) and ethnic upbringing (north americans don't typically eat dog meat). So even if I was a PETA advocate, I would be aware of my circumstances and proper netiquette and try to check my zealousness at the door, because this is a foodie site not a political debate site.

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That said,

I for one am saddened to see the Canadian Canning Industry in demise. Unlike the east coast fishing situation, this one isn't because of a lack of product, but rather an increase in cheaper competition from foreign sources. I for one think this is a shame... Not only does a closure mean there is a loss of jobs, but IMO there is also a loss in choice for the consumer, and quality of the foodstuff. I prefer to buy Local-Ontario-Canadian in that order whenever possible. Unfortunately this decision, means this will no longer be possible. Although I do not consume a great deal of canned fruit, I do enjoy "summer fruits" in mid winter that are only available canned (there are a lot of fruits not available either imported "fresh" or sourced from North America frozen). And as one who has volunteered with food banks, I can tell you that canned fruits and veggies are an important source of necessary vitamins for the poor. They may not be all that palatable to those who make a good income, but they are only choice that (too) many Canadians have.

Wow.. quite the discussion! I also am glad that bruce-the-chef has not decided to abandon this bunch of heathens ;-) I added B-t-C many moons ago as a favourite, and I think the group dynamic would be lessened by his absence. As for some of the sparks that I allowed to light the CC tinder, although I take what might seem a dispassionate approach to the loss of a local food canning company, I also think that they have to compete, or get out-competed. The basic fact of it is, that the local producers allowed their value chain (the canning plant and other parts of distribution) to not only exist outside of their sphere of control, but to be owned by parties that do not share their interests. If the producers were serious (and... no, asking the province for 5 million in 'aid' is not my version of serious), they would take control of their product chain, and do a little more vertical integration to their product sales cycle. Back when I was a teenager, I worked on an apple farm for many years. Apple farms are interesting, because you can sell all your product to big entities to make your life easier, but that is not the path my 'boss' took. He sold as much as he could at local farmer's markets (Peterborough, Oshawa etc), he participated (ran?) in a local farmer's co-operative that owned a cold storage facility, and also sold to the 'big guys'. Through all this control of his value chain, he was better able to compete, and not rely on the 'big guys' who may not share his interests. Not sure if this is as easy with peaches, but where there's muck there's brass, so if it was easy, it would have already been done. On the other hand.. there was this girl who worked at the Peterborough Farmer's Market who's nickname was Peaches... but I digress...

One unfair thing about Chinese food (and anything else) in particular is that China does not allow their currency to freely float, and they keep it at an artificially low point compared to the US dollar, precisely to give them this sort of unfair advantage. IMO that's not very fair and should be subject to punitive measures on all products from there.

Ahhh Zym, you are quite right that it's unfair, but in fact it may be less unfair than the alternative, if we are to bring the Chinese Tiger into the world economy. We can say it's unfair to us (which it is), but the equation is not one sided, as we have access to 'cheap' goods, which while not all roses, is not a pile of dung either. From an economic point of view, they are doing more or less what they have to, to avoid 'Dutch Disease'. Although normally associated with natural resources, it applies almost as well to a country with such a strong import/export imbalance. The best way to avoid Dutch Disease, as the Norwegians have adeptly shown, is to keep the incoming foreign money from entering the economy and causing hyper-inflation. China not only locks the value of the yuan, but they more or less prevent foreign dollars from entering their marketplace by forcing all exporters to 'exchange' the foreign dollars for yuan at the set price. I heard recently that only about 1/3 of Chinese have been brought into middle-class-dom, and without the currency controls, inflation would impoverish the remaining 700 million Chinese. Not sure about you, but I'm quite happy there are not 700 million hungry, and VERY UNHAPPY people... that's the stuff of civil war, and general world hardship. If only we could find a way to package OUR canned peaches as extravagances, maybe we could get the Chinese upper crust to buy them like they do Ice Wine from Niagara... Canned Ice Peaches... that's IT!

I agree with Pete, critizing China for it's currency control sounds like a 'Lou Dobbish reductionism'.

There may come a day were the world currency of choice is not the US Dollar but the Chinese Yuan. "Ooooh ....The times .. They are a-changin'"

Seeing China move into the 21st century is extremely interesting. A topic by it's self.

There was a (now famous ?) Catapillar D9 Bulldozer advertisemnet in The National Geographic Magazine during the early seventies. It showed a long hair 'hippy' arguing with a hard hatted construction worker, while in the background, you see a big bulldozer making a new road through a rainforest.

The catch line was "There are no easy answers ... Only intelligent choices".

That line has been with me for a long time.

Canned Ice Peaches ??? Hmmmmm ... I wonder if we could get them interested in Peach Fried Noodle ?

I'm not sure what "Lou Dobbish reductionism" means, but I think the criticism is valid. Yes, it provides cheap goods, which was exactly my point in the first place. They can undercut us because of this. Personally, I'd sooner see them float the Yuan and the cheap goods go away.

But if the cheap goods go away, who will make our affordable Plastic Pumpkin Lights to put on our trees during Halloween ?

.... and we'll all miss Dollarama and A Buck or Two,

.... and I'll have to pay $5.00 for a Hallmark Mothers Day Card and not $1.00 for a similar Made-in-China card.

.... and for all of us Foodies, What will happen to the price of bamboo skewers ?

Let alone a possible cival war/revolution of 700 million people.

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Zym: As itchy feet pointed out to me earlier in the thread, "We live so well because they live so poorly" is a reductionism.

Just to be clear, my emotional sentiments align very closely with Zym's. My other side however wants to know how these proposed outcomes ( e.g. floating the Yuan) would play out wholistically. Anyone know of, or seen research on what the western world would be like without Chinese imports? My first assumption is that our throw away consumption would drop dramatically, as we would simply not be able to afford it. My second assumption is that even with a reduced consumption rate, our effective cost of living would go up dramatically. Great for the environment, and local producers/manufacturers, but not a change I expect most people could be convinced to embrace. As I implied earlier, my thought is not to try to convince China to float the Yuan, but rather to start improving (enforcing?) some environmental and labour standards, and let the money shake itself out, and hopefully in the end, everybody can win. My wistful optimism...

i did say that CC, but didn't you correct on the proper usage of that term relative to the Forum we're now inhabiting? And to sidestep further, but to answer the question posed by Zym's tshirt: my kind of internet is one where parenthetical statements can be magically bracketed so that they can never be used against oneself! Can u make that happen, Fresh Foodie? :)