Bottled water is a scam [Science]

2008 Jun 14
This isn't really news to anyone but it's an entertaining take on the whole bottled water topic. Penn and Teller do some investigation to prove that what comes out of the municipal tap is actually superior to what you get in a bottle.

Warning - coarse language:

There's a gold bit around the 6 minute mark where diners in a fancy restaurant are sharing tasting notes on various expensive "import" waters. What they don't know is all the water came from the same garden hose. :-)

2008 Jun 15
Bottled water is healthy water — right ?

In reality, bottled water is just water.There's very little empirical evidence which suggests bottled water is any cleaner or better for you than its tap equivalent.

Bottled water isn't a good value

It's about 5 cents an ounce for bottled water while gasoline is about 2 cents per ounce.

Bottled water means garbage

Bottled water produces up to 1.5 million tons of plastic waste per year.And while the plastic used to bottle beverages is of high quality and in demand by recyclers, over 80 percent of plastic bottles are simply thrown away.

The corporatization of water

Multinational corporations are stepping in to purchase groundwater and distribution rights wherever they can, and the bottled water industry is an important component in their drive to commoditize what many feel is a basic human right: the access to safe and affordable water.

PS: Data is for the USA only.

2008 Jun 15
Living in the boonies means I don't have to drink municipal water. With a well we have to check yearly to make sure its safe but I am blessed with tasteless, odourless, colourless water! I've always been a strong believer in glass over plastic--much to the dismay of some of my childrens teachers over the years. I think once we had a bottle break on the bus....

2008 Jun 15
Not sure about healthy, or good value, but there's something to be said for a glass of San Pellegrino mineral water. There is no municipal water that tastes like it, and it makes Evian taste like swill (IMHO). Do we need to distinguish between water that comes from the ground, and is a fairly unique product, from the loads of bottled water that is essentially bottled tapwater? There is a local H20 that I've had that also surprised me with it's refreshing taste... maybe Mont Clair?

2008 Jun 16
Pete - Sparkling mineral water usually has the source labelled on it, and I'm hoping that means that it isn't filtered, re-mineralized, carbonated, and bottled there ;)

2008 Jun 16
I am one of the guilty ones that drinks bottled water. Ottawa tap water still gives me stomach aches (from the chlorine...) and now that I know the city sometimes dumps sewage into the river I am reluctant to drink the tap water here. So I continue to drink bottled water even though I am leaving a huge carbon footprint.

2008 Jun 16
I am also a bottled water drinker. And I don't make excuses for it... I drink it because I do so in a responsible fashion.

I grew up in the country also, where wells are the norm, and well water always tasted better than city water IMO. For me, part of the reason is all the "stuff" they add like Chlorine & Flouride, and part of it is the fact that water out of the ground generally is cleaner than city water because it is naturally filtered (through rocks etc). I can't get past the fact that drinking water comes out of the Ottawa River (filled with gunk) and then is cleaned at the local Filtration Plant only to pour out of my tap miles of pipe later... I will drink it in a pinch, but I see household water for household chores. I also am very familiar with spring water, which at one time was FREE, you'd just drive up to a tap / fount at the side of the road and fill up your containers. Many now well known bottled waters are put out by companies that bought the land rights to these springs.

That aside, there are a multitude of companies that bottle water that is NOT Spring Water. They are bottling basic tap water. They either filter the water, or use the process of distillation, deionization or reverse osmosis to purify it... this water is usually marked Purified Water. For true Spring Water you have to read the label... only Spring Water can be marked as such, and the source must be identified.

As for the environmental impact, I know that a lot of bottles from bottled water end up in the landfill.... But this is irresponsible. I always recycle my containers, even if that means trucking home empties from wherever and for however long they have been accumulated (the cottage, car trips, etc).


2008 Jun 16
There is no such thing as responsible consumption of bottle water. You're just kidding yourself. Recycling is afterall not much better than just chucking something in the garbage. I wrote a piece about this last week in my facebook profile - recycling is just a way to let people feel good about themselves. It does very little to "save the planet". The environmental 3 R's are Reduce, Re-Use, Recycle. IN THAT ORDER. Doing something for the planet means making efforts to REDUCE consumption of anything that ends up either in the garbage or recycling bin. We need to start thinking of recycling the same we we think about garbage, because they are about the same. You still use up finite resources, and expend a tremendous amount of energy to both transport them to you, then to recycle them. There is absolutely nothing responsible about that.

I'm no environmental angel myself, nor do I try to kid myself about it.

2008 Jun 16
I hate the chlorine too. It really upsets my stomach. And I swear it gives me headaches but that could be I just get dehydrated before I finally cave and drink a few glasses if we run out of bottles.

2008 Jun 16
A Brita filter dechlorinates. Or a small amount of potassium metabisulphite. The chemical reaction takes place quickly and eliminates the sulphites, too. 1 vintner's campden tablet per 60 litres of Ottawa water does just fine.

2008 Jun 16
BTW, if you get an oogie feeling about Ottawa water because of where it comes from, you should know that bottled water meets far lower standards than tap water. It only has to meet food standards, not water standards. Bears shit in the woods BTW. Then that filters down into your bottled water. Just sayin ...

2008 Jun 16
Zym - I RESPECT your opinion on this topic, and I am sure that you are very comfortable with the water choices you are making... as am I. I see water as any other FOOD item. Just because it is delivered by a very elaborate and costly infastructure program to my door, doesn't mean that that is the product I wish to consume. No one IMO should be forced to consume anything when it comes to food. I choose to make my water choice, SPRING WATER and that choice is only available in PET bottles. Just like there are choices of Homo, 2%, 1%, Skim or Chocolate Milk, and they are all available in recyclable containers, the consumer can choose whether to recycle them or not. (Like you I would prefer if they did).

As for your Bear in the Woods argument... all I can say is I prefer my water without pulp & paper effluents (which a Brita Filter can't solve).

Water although a life source, is not my first choice when it comes to beverages... nor is it yours I take it... so lets just each have a glass of wine & beer respecively, and agree to disagree on this one.

2008 Jun 16
I didn't disagree that you should be allowed to choose the product you want to consume. Actually, technically I do disagree but I wasn't disagreeing with that in my previous post. So what you wrote was something of a tangent and had nothing to do with what I said. Ultimately I don't think bottled water should even be allowed. A whole lot of stuff should not be allowed but is. However, that's not what I was just saying.

What I was disagreeing with above is the claim that someone can consume bottled water RESPONSIBLY. Sorry, but that's impossible to do. That's what I was (and still am) disagreeing with. If someone is going to consume it, I'm sorry but I'm not going to allow them to kid themself that they can do it with good conscience. There is no "responsible" way to consume bottled water. Period. Recycling the container is no more "responsible" environmentally than just chucking it in the garbage. It's really quite debatable which is more "responsible"

I'd also like to see the claim backed up about pulp and paper effluent in the Ottawa drinking water. One can find a full water analysis on the Ottawa website. It tells us everything that's in the water. Please point to the chemical(s) being alluded to. BTW, one cannot find such an in-depth analysis on ANY bottled water that I know of, because as already mentioned bottled water does not have to meet the same standards. In fact, independent tests on some bottled water shows some pretty nasty stuff in some of them which would be caught and disallowed in tap water. So ultimately, one really has no idea whatsoever what's in one's bottled water, because the bottler is not required to meet drinking water standards with the product. So once again, just something else that people manage to fool themselves with. Sorry, that's just the facts. It may make someone feel better drinking bottled water - all I can say is that the bottled water companies have good marketing. The fact that their standards are far lower than the drinking water standards for tapwater should speak for itself in terms of product quality.

2008 Jun 16
My mom fills her plant watering jug a day or two before she waters her plants. She tells me that the chlorine will dissipate by letting it sit around.

Is that true ?

If so, those that can't stomach the chlorine could have a water jug sit in the fridge.

2008 Jun 16
And for the record - like I said I'm no angel myself. Today I'll be tossing 4 empty cans into the recycling bin for my drinks while at work. Normally I bring a bottle with my own drinks but did not today. So this is the first time in a very long time I'm being that wasteful. But I'm not kidding myself into thinking that I'm being "responsible" by putting those cans in the recycling bin. If I really wanted to be "responsible" I'd have REDUCEd my consumption and prevented the consumption of those 4 cans in the first place, in favour of something with a much lower environmental impact.

2008 Jun 16
Chlorine will dissipate overnight depending on how big the container is. Much faster by boiling the water. But Ottawa uses Chloramine, not Chlorine, precisely because it does not dissipate very well so they can use a lot less of it (saves money). It can only be removed effectively by filtration or chemically as noted above.

2008 Jun 16
Speaking of being 'environmentally responsible', whatever that is .... looks like a green box program is coming to Ottawa next year.

See ---> www.cbc.ca <---

This will be of interest to all Ottawa Foodies who cook at home.

In the green box (which will be next to the blue box or the black box, or both) we are to place all our organic waste (no diapers please!).

They are expecting only a 60% participation rate for the 300,000 households with the new green box.

They are also looking at a two week pickup instead of the current weekly pickup.

Count me in on the 40% non participation rate. I already reuse lots of stuff in my stock pots, and I don't want to handle stinking rotting (and rodent attracking) garbage. Can you all imagine your green boxes after 2 weeks of 25-35 degrees celcius in the summer months ?

I already ferment organic matter.... but that's for me to drink. ;-)

Am I environmentally irresponsible ?

2008 Jun 16
I don't imagine it would be any more inconvenient than regular composting (which I already do) Captain Caper.

As for the bottled water, I only drink Perrier or Pellegrino unless their is no other option for water. Not that I think the water is better, or that I prefer carbonation, I just hate the taste of the plastic bottle. I've been brought up drinking city water so mostly it doesn't bother me (except in Napanee, where I recall the tap water tastes like they filter it through dirty potato peels...ewww). I did drink well water once while visiting my aunt out west...I almost hurled, not just from the strange taste, but the weird slippery feel of the water. What the hell is that? Is all well water like that?

2008 Jun 16
The slippery feeling is hard water. Lots of minerals. No all well water is like that but a lot of it is.

2008 Jun 16
I've heard that compostable waste mixed with regular garbage can help break down the the 'regular' quicker.

Are they just taking the compost to break down and sell as fertiliser? Thats fine, if the "profits" are put back into the system. Or is it a break even deal and there is no benefit to us, just pay the employees (make work project)?

Has anyone done the research and care to share about the project?

2008 Jun 16
Ultimately, Peter, I think the answer to that one is once again "reduce". Most countries in the world don't even do landfill, they do garbage-to-energy, like the new test facility here in Ottawa.

I'm still undecided on whether or not I'll participate in the new green box program. I already compost everything but meat remnants, and don't eat much meat anyway. And rarely waste much of what I do eat. In fact after BSNBB I filled my cooler with pig and deep fried turkey carcasses and am currently processing the turkey in my pressure cooker to get every possible bit of goodness out of it, after which it will get canned. The pig is in a huge pot in the oven to melt off as much fat as possible before I put it in the pressure cooker next. I just can't see food go to waste. Even a carcass that has been well picked over has at least one good batch of soup in it.

Back to the green box, I also already have enough trouble managing blue and black boxes that only get picked up every 2nd week. I'm not sure how I could manage a 3rd. Though as far as stink goes I hope they'll have enough sense to use stuff with tight fitting lids so this will not be an issue. My parents have one like this.

What I'll probably end up doing is just using the green bin for meat parts, and then only putting it out a few times a year. Call it an experiment :-)

2008 Jun 16
The house I grew up in had an artesian well. The water smelled like rotten eggs - noticeable to company and if we went away for a holiday. But it was the best tasting coldest water. It had that hard water slippery feel. It does great things for your hair! The underground river source wast so local, right under our house, that if the neighbours dug wells would go dry and they'd fill from our hose. Now, if I could buy that in a bottle...

2008 Jun 17
Food&Think.. I have to sort of agree with Zym on this one. Although it is certainly your right to have your preference, your arguments were much more 'touchy feely' based, and not very science based. Without trying to offend, it reminds me of my two year old saying 'Me no like', but us as parents knowing there is no deterministic logic to the statement. As for being a responsible bottled water drinker.. that is just slightly elitist as Zym alluded to. I think that if it's a system that everyone in the world could reasonably participate in, then it could be a candidate for responsible. However, with water resources being what they are in the world, most people are just quite happy to have safe tapwater, let alone 'reserving' the tapwater for the washing of clothes and the toilet. In fact, this is sort of backward, as if we as a society were being responsible, we would be using greywater for washing our clothes and toilet, and not tapwater, but it's something we can technically get away with (for now) living in such a water rich (and reasonably renewable) country. I will close by saying that I wasn't trying to pick on you, but rather to point out that you and Zym are arguing from different organs, you from your heart, and Zym from his brain. Perhaps the question Zym and I could ask is whether you could accept science to allay your fears of the water, or whether you will choose to follow your heart.

2008 Jun 17
This is an interesting thread: I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments about this topic.

I will admit that I drink City of Ottawa tap water - unfiltered. Maybe my taste buds are defective, but I don't think the City's water tastes bad. I do mind the plasticky flavour of bottled water, though.

2008 Jun 17
What do you guys think of this? - just stumbled over it today. Bottled water that comes in bottles made of corn that will biodegrade down in a compost!!!

www.plusonewater.ca

And the list of store that retail it in Ottawa (there are more in Kanata)

www.plusonewater.ca

There is still something of a carbon footprint for shipping I guess though...

2008 Jun 17
Interesting book review in the NY Times related to this topic:

www.nytimes.com


2008 Jun 17
IMO bottled water already starts far, far into the "extremely irresponsible" end of the spectrum. So compostable bottles only pulls one back to "irresponsible"

2008 Jun 17
Bottled still water IS a scam and so very, very wasteful. I do not see banning it as extreme...and I also cheered when that farmer in France torched a McDonalds that was being built next to his farm.
I think mineral water in glass bottles is a different category. Two worthy of note: San Pellegrino or the soft & silky Gerolsteiner.
I use a Brita filter at home & work. I find that Ottawa's water tastes quite different depending on where your tap is in the city. I'm downtown and, I must say, the water is pretty darn good. A few "hmm, this has a certain je ne sais quoi about it (and not in a good way)" I have found in Bridlewood and Orleans (but maybe that's on purpose...to force people towards the core...heh heh).
My sister is on a well near Richmond and their water is deliciously mineral-rich ~ carbonated (which can easily be done at home) it might even kick San Pellegrino's a*s (it would DEFINITELY beat Perrier's).

2008 Jun 17
Even waters that are not a scam like Gerolsteiner (which I used to drink a lot when I lived in Germany), and the Poland Springs mentioned in the link above, still classify as anywhere from "irresponsible" to "extremely irresponsible". We are massively polluting our water supplies left, right and center, and the good ones that are left (like the Poland Springs one in Maine) are being privatized. That's not good.

2008 Jun 17
BTW, just so Food&Think doesn't think I'm picking on her - because I really am not - a few more things that fall into the category of "massively polluting" and "extremely irresponsible" :

- eating meat
- driving an automobile, especially single occupant

Hands up, who falls into those categories? Me on both counts. And driving a hybrid still in my books counts as "extremely irresponsible". Sure, it's slightly better than driving a gas powered auto, much like recycling a water bottle is probably slightly better than tossing it in the garbage. But it's still so far on that end of the scale that the difference is pretty moot.

2008 Jun 17
This may be slightly off-topic, but are there any non-privately owned springs near Ottawa? When we lived in Napanee (when I was 10, so it was a while back) there was a spring in the town somewhere where people would just drive up and fill containers from. The tap water there was truly awful so I can understand why people were filling up giant containers of it. Of course this was in the days before bottled water....

2008 Jun 17
I drink bottled water from time to time, strictly out of convenience. It's not practical for me to always have a nalgene bottle around with water from my Brita filter. I think Ottawa tap water tastes horrible. I grew up in a small town most of my life and found the water quality much better, although I'm not quite sure if it's just all in my head.

Zymurgist since your distaste for bottled water is centered around the waste and consumption of packaging/materials - what are your thoughts on other bottled beverages? Let's say.....beer! Do you bottle your brew or keg it? :P

I'm glad we have recycling facilities available to us in Ontario - it's shocking to see in some US states where all sorts of glass and plastic products aren't even available to recycle and have to be simply tossed!

2008 Jun 18
Is anyone else like me, and by that, I mean people who can pretty much only differentiate between the taste of Toronto water and Ottawa water?

I visited Toronto a short while back, and the one thing I remember tasting about their water, was the abundance of BLEACH (AKA chlorine) in it.

There was a huge, noticeable difference for me; whether I washed my hands, my face, etc., and I could really smell this difference.

Don't know -- I am, overall, not someone who travels very much, but I did find this very noticeable.

Cheers!

2008 Jun 18
I make most of my beer from scratch so environmentally it's about as good as it gets. And I keg it. But actually the beer bottle system for domestic beers is actually a really good example of the 2nd of the 3 Rs - RE-USE. It's one step up from recycle.

But even if bottle water bottles were re-used, it would still be an incredibly wasteful practice to drink it because we have water coming from our taps. Oh, for the day we have the same for beer :-)

2008 Jun 18
You know, in the grand scheme of things Ottawa tap water is very, very good. I've commented on it numerous times to my wife since we moved here 1.5 years ago.

If you think it's bad, I suggest you visit my hometown of Kitchener-Waterloo and see what you think after a glass of that swill. The water tastes stale, and like it's been filtered through a dirty sock... yuck! The shameful thing is, the water used to be VERY good and sourced 100% from an underground aquifer. Then demand increased and they started drawing from the Grand River.

2008 Jun 18
Saurian I can't recall the tap water in Toronto tasting any different than the water in Ottawa since they both taste like chlorine to me... But I grew up in Montreal and even though I have been living in Ottawa for the last 20 years I still can't drink the tap water here without getting stomach aches. I KNOW I am leaving a huge carbon footprint drinking bottled water and believe me I wish I could drink the tap water here but my stomach just gets too achy... Not sure if it's the chlorine or whatever they put in the water here or if it's because I'm not from here but I just can't drink the water here. I would like to echo the comments from others about well water - I find it much more palatable tban the city water and I can drink it by the bucket full without any adverse effects. But unless the City can do something to the water so I don't get stomach aches then I stick to bottled water...

2008 Jun 18
Mousseline - There is (or at least used to be) a free spring in Brighton (if I am not confusing this town with another). If I remember correctly, the land for the park was given to the city on the condition the water remain free. I think it's on Hwy 30, between 401, and the town proper. A very small park, with just a pipe coming out of the ground spouting water... hard to find if you don't know it's there.

2008 Jun 18
There also used to be a free spring on the hill on the way into Wakefield.

I don't mind Ottawa water as I've lived here all my life. and if I'm drink bottled water, it's only out of convenience.

My understanding was that the chlorine evaporated after 2 days, and the chloramines after 30 days. When I had a fishtank, I always let the water sit for 2 weeks to a month before putting it into the tank, because the fishies weren't big fans of the O-town water...

2008 Jun 18
Nanook, I was just going to mention the spring near Wakefield. Can someone confirm or deny its continued existence?


2008 Jun 18
As already mentioned, you can remove chlorine and chloramine very quickly with a simple vintner's campden tablet. I have a bit of detail here :

www.bodensatz.com

And it gives a link to a further discussion which is extremely thorough.

2008 Jun 18
Okay so this might seem like a dumb question but I have to ask - I guess I crush up one of those tablets and place in a pitcher of water?... I am determined to give this a taste test...

2008 Jun 18
Hmmmmm....

When adding a campden (potassium or sodium metabisulfite) tablet to tap water you get this reaction.

Cl2 + SO2 + 2H2O -> H2SO4 + 2HCl

If you do not use this water in a fermentation, will the residual sulphur dioxide be detectable ?

Wow... this is streching my high school chemistry to the max .... and that was 28 years ago. Yeeesh.

PS: The pic is a model of sulphur dioxide.

2008 Jun 18
If you put one of those tablets in a pitcher of water it will be WAY TOO MUCH. I use 1 per 60 litres.

Sulphur Dioxide dissipates relatively quickly Captain. So it may be detectable for a while, but not long.

2008 Jun 18
This is what came up when I did a search:

www.flickr.com

2008 Jun 19
I work at a place on The Carp Ridge where the water comes from an Artesian well. The well was up on the ridge but down by the road there was an overflow pipe. For years people would come for miles (from the city) to get this water. When West Carleton amalgamated with Ottawa the city health officials blocked off the pipe—if we wanted to keep it available for public use we had to filter it which just wasn’t feasible. A lot of people complained but we had to comply. The long and short of it was that most of the people getting the water thought it was spring water when in fact it was well water—Hence I’ve always wondered about “true” spring water…

2008 Jun 19
Captain Caper I was wondering myself if those tablets would be suitable for drinking water (as opposed to water used for wine/beer making). After a quick visit to the Defalco website they do have those tablets which are promoted for wine making but could also be used for drinking water. Then I had my "D'oh!" moment and realized that Mountain Equipment sells water purification tablets. I think they are mostly for removing sediment from water rather than disguising the taste of chlorine but I think I'm onto something...

2008 Jun 19
I would not want to consume the MEC ones if they are the ones I'm thinking of - iodine based. Completely different ball game. What's wrong with the DeFalco's ones? I mean, other than that you have to divide up a tablet pretty small for normal use.

2008 Jun 20
Apparently the MEC tablets don't contain iodine. And there is nothing wrong with the Defalco's ones I was just shopping around....

2008 Jun 20
Ah, OK. Not sure what they are though. I know they ones they sold about 12 years ago were iodine based. Keep in mind the two serve completely different purposes. The MEC ones if I'm not mistaken are "purification" which allows you to take water from a stream and then drink it. The Defalco's ones do no such thing. In this case, they remove the chlorine from the water - that's it. Apples and oranges.

2008 Jun 20
The tablets (and liquid kits) MEC sells are chlorine dioxide ~ effective in killing microorganisms (ex. bacteria, viruses, protozoa). Their intent is emergency water needs - like the stream scenario. They won't disguise any chlorine taste but might add a twist of it.
I'll take lime and my Brita-ed municipal H20 (or the quite irresponsible but so delicious Gerolsteiner), thanks.

2008 Jun 20
ahhhh .... Gerolsteiner !!!

The preferred water for many European cyclists.

But wouldn't it make you burp while you're on your bike ?

2008 Jun 20
AMR Does the Brita filter make the chlorine taste less noticeable?...

Captain Caper I cycle but I don't drink Gerolsteiner. But you are welcome to try it and report your findings...

2008 Jun 20
Pasta Lover ~ It does lessen the chlorine taste. Brita filters contain activated carbon (reduces chlorine, pesticides and organic pollutants, odours and discoloration) and ion exchange resin (reduces calcium and magnesium - which cause water hardness - and significantly reduces levels of metals such as aluminium, copper and lead).

One thing though: the filter when you're done with it. In Europe they're recycled - and one of the best kinds of recycling: dismantled and refilled. Bravo!
But here, nooooo. In 2000 the North American division of Brita was sold to...wait for it...The Clorox Company. (Next I'll discover my bike was built by the Chrysler Corporation.)
I did find this a while back though...
www.takebackthefilter.org/

Still, without a well in downtown Ottawa, Brita is where I'm at.
And I would recommend them.

2008 Jun 21
Just realized I hadn't piped in yet. And we can't have that, now, can we ;)

The water quality in Ottawa isn't bad, especially since my three-year stint in Southern Ontario forced me to buy a Brita, since I can't drink water that tastes like swimming pool.

My parents live out in the sticks (well, it's pretty well Barrhaven now) and their well water is second-to-none. It's delicious, and their water quality assessments always come back with rave reviews: no iron, no sulfur, no coliforms, etc.

It's a bit hard, but that's fine. They soften it to every tap but the one in the kitchen, so the drinking and cooking water's full of delicious minerals. You just have to be sure to take water for tea or coffee from the bathroom beside the kitchen, or your drink will taste disgusting.


2008 Jun 21
I also spent many years in southwestern Ontario--water was piped many kms to get to London, Ont. I still visit and the water still is terrible--even with the Brita filtration. I now live in an area with wells only but within a few km's the water diifers immensely. I am in a sandy area (this acts as a natural filtration), but within a few hundred metres there are huge variations in minerals, hard and soft water. We have friends who live less than 1/2 a km away but they sit on a sulfur pocket--they have a filtration system but come with jugs for our drinking water. We are so lucky as a whole country to have safe water! I have travelled a bit and can appreciate what good water means. In Africa , some areas have no water for months on end. It's one of the things I am thankful for every day--I can drink what I need, wash my clothes and water my plants. How wonderful is that~!