Ottawa Foodies

This afternoon, I finally got around to giving Second Avenue Sweets a second shot, albeit just for a little snack.

I was greeted by a very friendly girl at the front of the store, and I could see two people working hard in the back--hopefully this means that SAS has hired other staff to worry about the storefront, and might expand their hours? Regardless, she was very helpful.

As pastries goes, I have two favourites: Scones (which everyone seems to know my opinion of, here), and lemon squares. So, what to my delight when I saw they had really decently sized lemon sqaures for about a dollar twenty-five. The perfect pick-me-up snack.

The first thing I noticed was that the icing sugar on the top was so heavy and none had been shaken off, which resulted it my inhaling icing sugar through my nose (really, really gross. I apologize if any of you are diguisted by this).

My big thing with lemon squares is the filling. The crust could be super moist or super crunchy, I don't have a preference. But for me, the best lemon squares have a very tart, bright lemon flavour. Which this one did. The filling was really quite good! The crust was a bit crunchy but buttery at the same time (the way cookies get when you melt butter and then mix it in, rather than mixing in soft butter).

Would I return? I won't not return. I'll be curious to try the bread again, now that the baking time has been reduced slightly, and I imagine that their other pastries are quite good--such as the cupcakes and the cakes they sell. I guess the big thing that still gets me is the lack of evening and weekend hours. I don't shop on Saturdays as I've made it a rule not to, and most of my groceries in the Glebe are done around 8 or 9 in the morning, just after the Farmers' Market opens on Sunday (or Thursday evening). It's a matter of convenience, more than anything. Then again, the counter argument could be made that small businesses are "not about convenience".

As an addendum, I'm curious is someone can name for me one other bakery in Westboro, besides Swiss Pastries. The vast majority of them are in Wellington Village, and now that Trillium no longer has a second location, the number of bakeries seem small in comparision to the number of sweets shops (Candy Store, Truffle Treasures, etc).

Pete, I think the thing you are missing is that most of the users on sites like this know to take a single user's comments with a grain of salt. Sure, there are people here who's opinions I trust implicitly because we have a growing history of time spent on here, and I have come to know that their opinions on things tend to be very similar to mine.

But the vast majority of opinions I read here are just 1 single data point. If I were using this site to determine whether or not to shop somewhere, I would review all the opinions and weigh them accordingly.

You seem to think that every who posts here will have their words become gospel.

I do hear what you are saying. I feel that my point is still being lost though. The power of the poster to state an opinion which may be valid and have others make decisions based on their statement can be crushing for a vendor. And what if their stated opinion is not valid? (as crazy as this may sound, you really ought to admit this could happen) My point continues to be that your comments were not constructive. If you want to come to a site like this and just bitch and be negative, that's your choice, and in that instance I'll be like every other vendor out there and wish useless forums didn't exist. But if you want to effect change (which would be positive) you might think about saying in what way you thought the scones (for instance) could've been more spectacular.
In response to your first post, I have started to bake the bread a slightly shorter period of time, this may help with what you thought was a bit dry. There is no discussion at this point about changing the hours. I appreciate that there are a lot of bakeries in the Glebe right now, but we are only a year and a half into a five year lease, so there is obviously no consideration of moving- there is a dearth of bakeries in westboro now too, so even if we did move we likely wouldn't move there. Finally if you have ideas about spectacularizing the scones, clearly, you have my attention.

Pete-In-Ottawa is right, this probably should go in the forum, but I'm not quite sure how to go about that...

That said, I've been quietly watching this debacle take place since I said something a week ago, and I appreciate the comments of those who believed my words were tactful and hardly scathing.

For all that I, personally, would like to see more involvement from vendors in this site, I really feel that it needs to be a dialogue, with mutual respect. I don't see Peet's posting as offensive, by any means, however I found it to be so defensive, and with little repsect to my experience as a customer, that it made me wonder.

Diverse views, Pete-in-Ottawa? Yes. But part of diversity is a mutual respect, and acceptance that we may not all have the same viewpoint. As much as I hope Peet will stick around and provide some insight (as both a proprietor and a consumer of other vendors), as I also hope that he will come to the understanding that food is art, and that sometimes its a matter of taste.

To keep things to review quality, I will point out that I'm going to try to go to SAS in the next week or so, and give them a second chance. Like I said in my original post, I haven't tried their "sweets" persay, only their breads and scones.

(Again, this really should be in the forum...)

By now, this should almost be a forum! I will (my admiration for lady who brunches aside) have to throw my support behind Peet. I didn't think Peet's posting was overly defensive, or at all offensive. So my comment to Peet is to keep posting, you haven't said anything wrong. That being said, it is interesting how foodies assume that if there are things they don't like about a place (which is fine), and they dutifully report them (which we do), that the establishment in question is in a position to want to change. It is obvious from Peet's point of view that they understand their hours are not long, but choose to keep them that way on purpose (family). As for having baked goods late, I remember in the early days of the French Baker, that if you went anytime after 3:00 pm, it seemed half of the 'good stuff' (croissants etc) were gone for the day. It seems Peet feels this way for their breads. Now Peet, you are taking a little heat here because people read your posts as blind defense of your business. That doesn't mean that's exactly what you did, or that you weren't sincere, but rather shows our (Foodies) cynicism because we've seen many insiders ( owners/staff ) come on Foodies, and make one post trying to defend poor service, or bad product as the figment of the reviewer's imagination. I don't think you appeared like that, but that is the impression you will be up against from the start. This sort of view should go away as you post more, and Foodies get to know your comments, and side of things better. I encourage you to stick around... we like diverse views here!

Ah. I get it. It's not taboo to comment, but it's not a good idea. I take it all back and I apologise to any who may have been offended or otherwise put off.

To chime in on this what seems to be an on going comment about their hours. I agree the hours are not very convenient as do many of the people in the neighborhood. Actually,this comment has come up almost everytime someone mentions the bakery to me.

I completely understand that family comes first but the hours could be extended if they could find a student or part time employee to close the store at the end of the day, ideally 6:00p-7:00pm depending on the day of the week. This would allow for people who work outside of the neighborhood a chance to get what they need for dinner instead of having to make due with the Loeb bakery products.

As a teenager I worked at a cafe/bakery after school daily and have to say the after work rush was very profitable! They had me put the money in a safe with the cash out slip and the owners dealt with it first thing in the morning. Takes the pressure off the owners and wouldn't cost much to do.

As for if the owners/staff should be able to voice their opinion on this site, I say absolutely! They should be able to explain/apologize if someone does something that people feel is worth complaining about. As long as it is valid.

I also feel that positive and negative experiences need to be address on this site otherwise the reviews would be very one sided and not realistic because no place is perfect. Also, the businesses can not improve if no one points out what they could do better.

Zym - I agree. I appreciate the fact that new poster Peet has been upfront about their involvement with SASS. BUT, that said, I still don't think this Vendor understands that this is a REVIEW Site... people choose to eat wherever they fancy, and write a Review based on their experience and perceptions. It's the same concept as seeing the latest movie... I may think one thing, you another... food is like this too, very subjective.

Peet says he doesn't want to "start anything" but at the same time, he objects to what another poster says about his establishment (twice now). Hardly gracious of Fresh Foodie's olive branch. I for one like to make up my own mind, but when an Owner comes here or worse yet uses a Shill if not two (see the other comments on this same Vendor) that action in itself taints my perception far more than a couple of negative words in a Review (and like you Zym I hardly see this as a scathing Review).

Peet - For the record, there are indeed a lot of Owners & Employees of Ottawa Food related establishments that frequent this site. And they have figured out that the best way to utilize the site is to watch, listen and learn, and thereby participate in the process. Not to pat themselves on the back continually. Ottawa Foodies has a membership of over 1300... we are your customers. To be truly successful in the Ottawa Food market you might want to figure out what this site can offer you, rather than whine about it.

EDIT (ADD) - Agree with Sweets comments entirely. And like her, actions such as these just make me more decided to stay away!

I agree with zymurgist, disagree with Fresh Foodie. The site is called "Ottawa Foodies: Connecting you to Ottawa's Best food". This is not "Ottawa Foodies: a place for mid rage positive messages and employees input", there is probably a site for that. We are all here because we are looking for the best places to dine in Ottawa. If your place doesn't have the best bread (or whatever)... tough luck, make it better because I can get them at one hundred other places. If every post we write is going to have an employee or owner defending their position, this could get a little tediousness. My point... read the comments take them in stride, xcuses from the employees are tacky. I won't be to Second Avenue Sweets.

I didn't read these comments first time around and just went back through now. I don't see anything wrong with Lady Who Brunches comments, to be honest. She was pretty balanced if you ask me.

I've eaten croissants on my travels, including France. I agree the French Baker croissants are great. But, right there with them are the croissants from Second Avenue Sweets in the Glebe. You have to get there early to buy them as they don't make a lot each day. The chefs there are incredible.