raw milk in Ottawa? [Food/Vendor]
Feb 8
Is it just me, or does it seem like raw milk has become akin to running moonshine?! Why can't we have European type food laws? ;-)
Feb 8
MedicineJar - LOL, not quite... Making & Selling Moonshine is illegal. Drinking Raw Milk from your own animals is not... but selling the same to other individuals is.
The reason being exactly that... IF it was the days when we all had our own cows we'd know where the milk came from (and when)... since Industrialization we are now feeding millions from the milk from just a few locations... so in order for the milk last longer (can't milk the cow at 5 AM and have the jug on the table for Breakfast at 7 AM anymore) then Pasteurization is a method by which "Governments" uses to both control the market and provide confidence to the consumer. In this North American obsessed "germ culture" there have been many arguments for and against Pasteurization, at this point in time it is now probably the Public who has become skeptical of change (not many people remember Raw Milk).
I grew up around dairy farms... and drank a lot of raw milk. Haven't done so for years though... not sure how I'd take to it now. I currently drink 1% (for health reasons) after moving down from 2%... before that I was strictly a homogenized girl (because it was similiar to what I was used to). But not sure I could go backwards up the chain again.
But change can happen, witness the changes in Quebec in recent years in regards to raw milk cheeses.
The reason being exactly that... IF it was the days when we all had our own cows we'd know where the milk came from (and when)... since Industrialization we are now feeding millions from the milk from just a few locations... so in order for the milk last longer (can't milk the cow at 5 AM and have the jug on the table for Breakfast at 7 AM anymore) then Pasteurization is a method by which "Governments" uses to both control the market and provide confidence to the consumer. In this North American obsessed "germ culture" there have been many arguments for and against Pasteurization, at this point in time it is now probably the Public who has become skeptical of change (not many people remember Raw Milk).
I grew up around dairy farms... and drank a lot of raw milk. Haven't done so for years though... not sure how I'd take to it now. I currently drink 1% (for health reasons) after moving down from 2%... before that I was strictly a homogenized girl (because it was similiar to what I was used to). But not sure I could go backwards up the chain again.
But change can happen, witness the changes in Quebec in recent years in regards to raw milk cheeses.
Feb 8
F&T, I know there are health issues and I understand many of the points you note. But I guess overall I wish the government would adopt a regulatory approach with regards to food that gave consumers the ability to to make informed choices. Clearly, there are minimum standards that need to be met but having said that I believe the government is going far beyond that and making a lot of choices for us in this area.
Personally, I would like a system in which providers were required to give necessary information about the food and the risks, and follow certain safety regulations in terms of cleanliness etc. Consumers could then take that information and make informed choices. Say what you want, but I think we need to get Bo and Luke Duke to start running raw milk in the Ottawa Valley. All they need to do is replace the Confederate flag on that roof with a Union Jack and we are in business! G'Day G'Day!
Personally, I would like a system in which providers were required to give necessary information about the food and the risks, and follow certain safety regulations in terms of cleanliness etc. Consumers could then take that information and make informed choices. Say what you want, but I think we need to get Bo and Luke Duke to start running raw milk in the Ottawa Valley. All they need to do is replace the Confederate flag on that roof with a Union Jack and we are in business! G'Day G'Day!
Feb 9
I, too, drank a lot of raw milk as a child. Great stuff.
I just wanted to add that if you're willing to settle for second best, Harmony Organic has regular unhomogenized milk. I don't know if it's available in the gabletop cartons, but you can buy it in glass bottles at the Herb & Spice.
I just wanted to add that if you're willing to settle for second best, Harmony Organic has regular unhomogenized milk. I don't know if it's available in the gabletop cartons, but you can buy it in glass bottles at the Herb & Spice.
Feb 10
"I just wanted to add that if you're willing to settle for second best, Harmony Organic has regular unhomogenized milk. I don't know if it's available in the gabletop cartons, but you can buy it in glass bottles at the Herb & Spice."
hehe that is exactly what I was doing so far. but i'm ready for an upgrade. :)
hehe that is exactly what I was doing so far. but i'm ready for an upgrade. :)
Feb 10
Here is the person I hooked up moltar with. She says she is open to new customers now that it is legal. And I can post it here.
Conavista Farm
milkorders(at)sympatico(dot)ca
613-658-5876
Conavista Farm
milkorders(at)sympatico(dot)ca
613-658-5876
Feb 11
I heard that if you were never exposed to raw milk as a child, you will never develop sufficient tolerance to drink it as an adult. Is this true?
Feb 11
I don't know. I drank raw goats milk as a child. FWIW, cows milk has always been an issue for me with regards to lactose intolerance. Goats milk I can tolerate just fine, but haven't had raw milk since I was a kid.
Feb 11
When I was a kid I drank raw milk a couple times and didn't like it at all..bleeck
Way to creamy for me.
Give me good ol' Pasteurized 2% milk any day....yum yum oh and don't forget,
"Safe to drink"
They don't make a big deal about Louis Pasteur in the biology books for nothing.
en.wikipedia.org
Way to creamy for me.
Give me good ol' Pasteurized 2% milk any day....yum yum oh and don't forget,
"Safe to drink"
They don't make a big deal about Louis Pasteur in the biology books for nothing.
en.wikipedia.org
Feb 11
As for safety - I'd drink raw milk no problem if I were raising and milking the animals myself. No way in heck I'd drink it from anyone else. But I'd buy it from them to make cheese.
Feb 11
Medicine jar: you can give the consumer all the information they need, but chances are they won't read/understand it. For example: nutrition facts tables.
Feb 11
"I heard that if you were never exposed to raw milk as a child, you will never dev,elop sufficient tolerance to drink it as an adult. Is this true?"
Never heard that before; from personal experience, and from the experience of family and friends, I/they never had issues from drinking raw milk never having had it as children. I was about 25 when I first had it and a few years later started drinking it every day - at that point I was learning how to run a dairy farm with my wife (her dad was a dairy farmer and had been killed).
The dairy industry is much safer now than it was in the days of Louis Pasteur but we must remember that all raw milk is contaminated to some extent - after all, cows are milked in a barn or a milking parlour, and are not milked under sterile conditions. Most farmers do a good job of keeping sanitary conditions, some do a great job, some a poor job. Even the best farmers can have issues on a single day that can contaminate their milk. We still need to pasteurize milk on a large scale for the safety of consumers. Selling unpasteurized milk is a minefield that, if encouraged, could grow and have serious problems one day - witness the Maple Leaf listeria outbreak. What happens then? I think that if raw milk sales were legal that the higher value the milk likely has would attract some whose interest is in the money, not the intrinsic value of raw milk, and that may have a negative effect for the industry and the consumer. Even with all the myriad regulations in place some people will still ignore some laws/regulations/rules to suit their own wishes. And as the number of farmers continues to decrease (there are now less than half the dairy farmers in Ontario than when I started in 1980) and farms become larger and hire more employees there are more issues as employees are hardworked, underpaid and less motivated perhaps.
If raw milk is legallized, and it now seems possible through the cowshare program, health issues will eventually appear, I believe, and deaths may occur; insurance issues and more government regulation are sure to follow. But the interest in raw milk is likely to continue in any event, and likely will continue to grow, slowly I suspect.
If I were a dairy farmer today I wonder what I would do if raw milk sales were legal; I never did sell any privately - it all went through the milk board system (up to ~1200L/day when there were a number of fresh high producers). Just the legal ramifications would be daunting for me, I daresay, as I'm no lawyer. Others would be less concerned and quicker than me to pursue the opportunity, I'm sure.
It will be interesting to see how this will all shake out in the judicial and legislative systems, and I will be following it with interest.
Never heard that before; from personal experience, and from the experience of family and friends, I/they never had issues from drinking raw milk never having had it as children. I was about 25 when I first had it and a few years later started drinking it every day - at that point I was learning how to run a dairy farm with my wife (her dad was a dairy farmer and had been killed).
The dairy industry is much safer now than it was in the days of Louis Pasteur but we must remember that all raw milk is contaminated to some extent - after all, cows are milked in a barn or a milking parlour, and are not milked under sterile conditions. Most farmers do a good job of keeping sanitary conditions, some do a great job, some a poor job. Even the best farmers can have issues on a single day that can contaminate their milk. We still need to pasteurize milk on a large scale for the safety of consumers. Selling unpasteurized milk is a minefield that, if encouraged, could grow and have serious problems one day - witness the Maple Leaf listeria outbreak. What happens then? I think that if raw milk sales were legal that the higher value the milk likely has would attract some whose interest is in the money, not the intrinsic value of raw milk, and that may have a negative effect for the industry and the consumer. Even with all the myriad regulations in place some people will still ignore some laws/regulations/rules to suit their own wishes. And as the number of farmers continues to decrease (there are now less than half the dairy farmers in Ontario than when I started in 1980) and farms become larger and hire more employees there are more issues as employees are hardworked, underpaid and less motivated perhaps.
If raw milk is legallized, and it now seems possible through the cowshare program, health issues will eventually appear, I believe, and deaths may occur; insurance issues and more government regulation are sure to follow. But the interest in raw milk is likely to continue in any event, and likely will continue to grow, slowly I suspect.
If I were a dairy farmer today I wonder what I would do if raw milk sales were legal; I never did sell any privately - it all went through the milk board system (up to ~1200L/day when there were a number of fresh high producers). Just the legal ramifications would be daunting for me, I daresay, as I'm no lawyer. Others would be less concerned and quicker than me to pursue the opportunity, I'm sure.
It will be interesting to see how this will all shake out in the judicial and legislative systems, and I will be following it with interest.
Feb 11
Vinny, I said a lot of stuff about raw milk above, so you'll have to be more specific since I do not know what Conklins or Fennells are.
Feb 11
Okay I swear I'm under 90, but not only did I love raw milk as a child, I would help a family friend milk the cows to get it. Mmmmmmm so fresh it's still warm.
I'm super glad to see this thread though, as I've been thinking I'd like to try my hand at making various cheeses for the family and raw milk is the way to go.
We like to drink the Harmony unhomogonized milk as a treat (my kids call it creamy milk) but go for daily milk we go 1% organic to cut the fat a bit. We go through a lot of milk around here.
I'm super glad to see this thread though, as I've been thinking I'd like to try my hand at making various cheeses for the family and raw milk is the way to go.
We like to drink the Harmony unhomogonized milk as a treat (my kids call it creamy milk) but go for daily milk we go 1% organic to cut the fat a bit. We go through a lot of milk around here.
Feb 12
Zymurgist:
I did a reverse 411 on the phone number you typed into your earlier post and saw that it is for the Conklin family near Spencerville (south of Ottawa and just west of Highay 416). There is also a Jacqueline Fennell and her husband involved in a cow share program in Grenville County. Jackie used to be the president of the Grenville Landowners Association and has been interviewed by Rebecca Zandbergen on CBC Radio several times on the raw milk issue.
I was just wondering who you had been speaking with since I am interested in doing a story for my farm publication (www.agrinews.ca) on the sale of raw milk in Eastern Ontario.
Regards
Vinny
By the way, I am interested in learning the breed of beef raised by your grass fed supplier.
I did a reverse 411 on the phone number you typed into your earlier post and saw that it is for the Conklin family near Spencerville (south of Ottawa and just west of Highay 416). There is also a Jacqueline Fennell and her husband involved in a cow share program in Grenville County. Jackie used to be the president of the Grenville Landowners Association and has been interviewed by Rebecca Zandbergen on CBC Radio several times on the raw milk issue.
I was just wondering who you had been speaking with since I am interested in doing a story for my farm publication (www.agrinews.ca) on the sale of raw milk in Eastern Ontario.
Regards
Vinny
By the way, I am interested in learning the breed of beef raised by your grass fed supplier.
Feb 12
I just got that number from a friend and have not dealt with the raw milk supplier - so you'll have to do your own legwork there.
I can put you in touch with my farmer if you like to ask him questions. PM me here and I'll give you my email address
I can put you in touch with my farmer if you like to ask him questions. PM me here and I'll give you my email address
Feb 14
*gulp* I got in touch with Conavista Farms and that route is not at all going to be possible for me. That initial payout is way above my means.
Does anyone know if there's a way to piggyback with someone to get the occasional amount of milk?
Does anyone know if there's a way to piggyback with someone to get the occasional amount of milk?
Feb 18
Got my share today at Conavista Farm. The milk is amazing.
I've also had a tour of the farm. The cows are well treated. The barn is very clean and smells like a good barn. The animals looked clean and happy. They were chewing on some hay and drinking water. There also were three little calves. One of them came up and I pet it. It started licking my jacket. Maybe it found some road salt...
I've also had a tour of the farm. The cows are well treated. The barn is very clean and smells like a good barn. The animals looked clean and happy. They were chewing on some hay and drinking water. There also were three little calves. One of them came up and I pet it. It started licking my jacket. Maybe it found some road salt...
Feb 19
W.C.: I re-read your sentence like 20 times and can't figure out what you mean :) Is it good or bad? Do food sensitivities increase from raw milk or decrease in your experience?
Feb 19
Don't know about W.C., but when I was drinking it as a child my
"mysterious" gastro ailments cleared up, as did my psoriasis/eczema. Of course, I was drinking raw goats milk - once we switched back to regular cows milk they all came back. :p
My parents were only "hippy" in their approach to these things due to finances and rural living, but I certainly have a strong appreciation for the origins of my food as a result! ;)
"mysterious" gastro ailments cleared up, as did my psoriasis/eczema. Of course, I was drinking raw goats milk - once we switched back to regular cows milk they all came back. :p
My parents were only "hippy" in their approach to these things due to finances and rural living, but I certainly have a strong appreciation for the origins of my food as a result! ;)
Feb 20
Sorry I was vague---the few people I have tested for unpasteurized milk did not come up sensitive. I don't have statistics but I would say about 50% of those tested for "regular" milk show some degree of sensitivity (symptoms can vary-stomach/digestive upset to nasal/sinus/lung congestion). Also I tend to be testing folks who are looking for the source of some sort of health issue. I personally do not drink milk but probably would if I had an easily accessible, reliable source of unpasteurized milk and milk products.
moltar