Ottawa Foodies

I got back from a trip to south Texas last week and I'm a little confused on service in restaurants in Ottawa. There are exceptions but I noticed that service here was not even close to the service in the U.S. While at a chain restaurant The Texas Roadhouse I experienced a level of service unexpected. Water was brought to our table a bucket of peanuts and when we had eaten two of our four buns the cold buns were replaced with four more hot buns without asking. Another night we were at a Mexican restaurant and were doted upon like we were royalty. Our server even asked if we had enough to eat and if we didn't we could get more at no extra charge. Most of our other dinners in Texas went the same way. I am wondering if this is a cultural thing or is the service in our eateries just that bad?

Wow, that's terrible service - replacing uneaten cold buns with hot ones! I'd have been furious! What waste. It all sounds excessive and unsustainable to me.

It may be a tiny bit excessive. But I would rather that then be told that I would have to pay for more buns if I was still hungry for bread or have to ask for water. Thats kind of the point was trying to make.

I have to agree with Ken V overall. Yes, there are places with good service in Ottawa, but I travel to the States a lot and have to say that the service there is just generally better. I can't speak for the rest of Canada though, as I've only ever dined in a few other big cities.

I think it's at least a bit of a mentality thing. I've noticed here that servers, or even people working at fast food places, tend to be "stingier" with stuff (ingredients, etc.). For example, I eat at Subway a lot, and have noticed that it's pretty much only in Ottawa that they are so annoyingly cheap with the toppings. Ask for extra olives? You get an extra 2 slices on your sub. Ask for more than that? You get another 2 slices... Anywhere else I've been, when you ask for extra something, they lay it on like you mean it.

I'm trying not to be too "blanket-statement-y", but the more I travel, the more I notice this phenom at home. Anyone else agree/disagree?

In a lot of states minimum wage for serving staff is extremely low. Some states have no minimum wage laws, so serving staff are really really dependent on tips.

As for the bread issue, that's the management. They make no money off filling their patrons up with bread.

I can't comment on the restaurant service in Ottawa because I eat mostly ethnic take out.

Having traveled throughout the US (and Canada) quite extensively, I can definitely agree with your statement Saurian. I'm not confusing quantity/excess with good service here, heaven forbid a member of the bun stewardship council give me a lashing, but there seems to be a general genuine interest in your business in the US which only a handful of Ottawa establishments have been able to achieve (not limited to the following: Play, Zen Kitchen, Murray St, Wellington Gastropub, Whalesbone Supplyhouse & Restaurant, Piggy Market, to name a few).

i find in some cases with ottawa restaurants/coffee shops the closer in age i am to the employee, the more worse service i receive. what, just because i'm your age you feel the need not be pleasant to me? :( there are two establishments (after a few times of visiting) in ottawa in which i have totally boycotted because of this. drastic? haha maybe. but in those situations i don't really know what to do other than stop going to the establishment and avoid getting peeved over my cup of coffee.

on the brightside, like chimichimi mentioned there are places in ottawa that go out of their way to make it a pleasant experience.

Pan Bagnat for the win - I had that in my first response above but took it out for some reason

I've worked at a Subway, Saurian. There are a specific number of pickles, cuke slices, etc per sub -- Head Office sends reps in to make sure that subs are being made to those standards. "Extras" are doled out in specific amounts, as well. In theory, this means that you can buy exactly the same sub in Halifax that you can buy in Vancouver. Don't get me started on the "bread measuring"! ;) It doesn't mean I agree with the quantities, but it's the reasoning behind the "stinginess" with the extras.

FWIW, it took me years to be able to eat at a Subway again. ;)

Pan Bagnat hit the nail on the head, I certainly hope people feel well looked after @ our place.

I think it's really more of an Ontario thing, in Montreal the service in most places is exceptional. I was treated like a king in Calgary, Jasper & Banff on my last trip to the west. In Newfoundland I was treated like family.

It's not always 'better in America' I used to go to Lake Placid every spring for Golf & because of the horrendous treatment I received almost everywhere the last 2 times I went (the last time was 2003) I will never go back.

I've heard great stories about Texas, it is really getting a reputation for a vacation spot that hasn't been over run by tourists.

Terry

Does the wage argument hold a lot of weight, considering that food service employees yield some of the lowest wages in Canada?

Terry - I'd like to mention that your restaurant has always had great service: genuine, friendly, accomodating and non-intrusive.

There's likely a number of cultural things at play... Texas has as a culture of the "bigger is better" attitude, and a spirit of hospitality rivalling that of the Maritimes. The second you go out of the over-touristy areas, you're likely to get great service, not just because the servers may not be paid enough otherwise.

I wonder if there's any correlation in Ottawa to places that are popular with expense accounts (government/business) and those that aren't? It's no excuse for poor service, of course. Or maybe there's a difference in the type of people who decide to go into waitering here and elsewhere. (It might be too cynical to think that high-turnover places have people trying to be their most pleasant to not get fired...)

I have only been to (Southern) Ontario and (Western-to-Montreal most of the time) Quebec within Canada, but yes, there's a cultural difference in the approach to service. In the US, I've been to many spots not in the touristy areas, and service differed quite a lot, but rarely was of the tepid kind. Then again, I was always with friends who steered me to the better places.

In Ontario, I definitely feel that "hands-off" is a norm, and the customer should be left as alone as possible. A culture of isolation perhaps? When I was going to the now-defunct (and personally lamented) "New Asian Restaurant" on Bank and Cooper (where SoGo is now), the main waitress always seemed hesitant of giving the service level I felt she wanted to give. I was always smiling and polite, gave the bare minimum of respect for the culture (receiving and giving back the bill folder and/or interac card with both hands), and let her be as attentive as she wanted. In response, I received excellent service and, being semi-regular, had a few extras now and then - or maybe they gave artfully-cut plates of vegetables to everyone, but made me feel like I was special. Thus I gave them my business. (The food was pretty darn awesome too.)

Terry you have to get to south Texas. I have never been treated so well. All the restaurants we visited were outstanding and some were chains. You comment hit the nail on the head about family this is how we were treated. The restaurants we visited genuinly cared about getting our return business. South Texas had a lot of Ontario plates I noticed and signs everywhaer welcoming back winter Texans. Hopefully we get aour place before anything changes.

Quantity has a quality all its own.

I've had good service pretty well everywhere in the United States, but I've also had good service in Europe and Canada. I've also had bad service in all of these regions. Honestly, I don't see the point of making blanket statements.

As far as service in Ottawa, I had a really interesting discussion with a restauranteur today about how customers have different expectations. In his case, he wants his customers to feel welcome and those that do are often the ones engaged in conversation and enjoying themselves. He mentioned a customer who said that she wouldn't be coming back *before* she ordered, because people were too loud. Everyone has a different standard for "good" service and a good dining experience.

I agree with Zymurgist, the service you got in Texas sounds excessive, but that's my perspective.

Lucky we have this forum LWB so that everbody can share their opinions.

Yeah, speaking of which LWB, "engaging in conversation" being seen as "good service". We were at Fil's oh probably a year ago now and one of the new waitresses there really set upon us for some reason and just could not stop chatting us up. Drove us damned near crazy! Sure, there is being friendly and being chatty. But when it comes to the point of actually hanging out at our table while there is nothing else to do so she can chitter-chatter with us, that is too far!

But we went back, and still do. I have not seen her there lately so not sure if she still works there or not.

Just to clarify, when I said "engaged in conversation", I meant with one another and not the waitress, etc.

Talking about bad service. I went with some friends to a restaurant last might and just as I was about to sit down I noticed the chair was broken. Our waitress was at the bar chatting to the barman. I showed her the chair and asked for another,
The broken chair was slung against the bar and she then turned her back on us and continued chatting leaving me to look for another chair.
As I sat down she looked over at us and I made a point of letting her know a tip would not be forthcomming.

This kind of off hand service is very dissapointing as we love the food in this establishment and usually they are very helpful.
Btw it was at The East India Trading on Sommerset.
The rest of the service was excellant as we were assigned another server for the evening.

Cakelady, I agree with your philosophy on tipping. I personally think I am a good tipper but I do not hesitate to claw back for service that is not good and have also taken to not leaving anything when its poor/rude.

I am reminded of the 3rd Rock from the Sun episode where Dick discovers the concept of tipping. Essentially, Dick places a pile of one dollar bills on the table and informs the waitress that will be her tip and it will grow as she does things that pleases him but he will take bills away when she screws up. You can view it here: www.youtube.com

Cheers!

I admit there does seem to be a general problem of "yakking" - where wait staff have to finish their yak before waiting on you. I see it all the time though it is rarely really bad.

OK my 2 cents - I've lived in BC, Manitoba and Ontario. I've traveled to all provinces with the exception of the Rock. Its not that service is necessarily bad in Canada - but overall - and yes this is a blanket statement - the service in ALL hospitality industries - is better in the states. I'm not slamming the industry in Canada - just stating something obvious once you've traveled a bit.

I'd also add the blanket statement that portions in the state are much bigger - at least at lower - mid end restros. I'm not saying this is a good thing - I find it excessive, and I've been known to put down a fair bit of food.

After managing a fantastic culinary road trip to Chicago in fall, I'm thinking maybe Texas should be on my hit list :)

I have heard comments about the difference in service between Toronto and Ottawa. Being raised here, I find it natural that you get seated, they offer you drinks to get started and will come back for your order in ~20 minutes. You flag the server when you are done and want the bill.

Apparently one of the servers at Newport had excellent service to my two Torontonian friends, but I found her incredibly pushy to my sensibilities. Seemed like she was trying to rush us, clearing plates quickly and trying to get us to pay seemingly as fast as possible despite the fact that the place wasn't that busy. We had a conversation about the seemingly cultural differences and the effect on service.

Just my two cents.

Sourdough - I did a road trip from Ottawa to Texas, then all the way across to Phoenix & Las Vegas... amazing food, mindblowing BBQ & Tex-Mex, and cheap beer!

Interesting discussion.

Like Jagash I too have seen that difference... Toronto is a much more fast paced city than Ottawa and that inturn extends to the Restaurant industry... get them seated, get them fed, get them out the door. I much more prefer our more social laid back take on food (thinking this might be a bit of a rub-off from Montreal being so close to Ottawa). Montreal's restaurant industry to me anyways has always been very professional (more so than Ontario)... and yet life is taken again at a slower pace than even Ottawa.

I don't like being rushed (taking the plates away before everyone at the table is done... is just down right RUDE in my mind... especially if performed without asking someone if that is what they'd like).

As for the USA and Canada's differences... (ok here comes the blanket statements)... I too attribute it to a difference in cultures (and finances). In the USA a service industry job is a very low paying one (even more so than when compared to Canada... as already stated there is no true minimum wage in some states) unlike Canada where we have a universal minimum wage that is based on the standard of living. So although someone here would have to work pretty hard to make ends meet on a minimum paid job for 40 hours a week, the Government has determined it can be done. (Not to mention the fact that here in Canada we have medicare, which means that our workers have one less thing to worry about).

Not so in the USA... you either get multiple jobs and work 60 or more hours a week... or you slug long and hard over 40 hours hoping to make up the difference in tips. That translates into INCENTIVE to provide better service.

Add to that the fact that Americans have a greater percentage of citizens who have a lower level of education*... and a service job becomes a respectable career. Here in Canada, 9 times out of 10 someone is working in the service industry while putting themselves thru another phase of their life (University, OR to add to their income to save for a House, whatever... so working as a Waiter isn't a Career so much as a "Hobby with Cash Payment").

So although they may have better service in the USA, once you know all the facts, I still prefer our life to theirs.

And evidently, they do too... as I have met a lot of Americans in my travels who having once discovered I live in Canada, they inquired about getting work here as a Cook, Waiter, etc. They have certainly heard that we are better paid.

--- --- ---

*Education Stats

Canada = 53.4% Canadians with a Post-Secondary Diploma (1)
USA = 27% Americans with a Post-Secondary Diploma (2)

(1) As per Statistics Canada
(2) As per the US Census Bureau

Jagash, I've been raised here as well, though in French, and if I'm dining alone I find it bad when I have to wait 20 minutes for the waiter to come back for my food order. Often because my drink order consists of "water". :) I have, sadly, very low experience of dining in groups (and especially in groups of two...) and I avoid busy restaurants when dining alone (with one exception as it's a different type) as I figure they probably don't want empty chairs, even since as a lone diner I'll not talk and likely be out fairly quickly.

These are for mid-level restaurants, as I almost never eat out to truly good quality places. It's downright sad going there alone... (And I feel daggers when I go to one and still order only water since glass wine is only House and I'd want something better, but no way could I have a whole or even half bottle by myself if I want to walk!)

When with friends in the US going to restaurants, I certainly see more zeal by the staff, but sometimes it borders on desperation... only a few times so far, though.

I'm from England.

You don't know how lucky you are.

Niall, I think the key qualifier there is "alone". Dining in company means there is conversation and thus, a delay is a social space as opposed to a delay. Sympathies on going to restauraunts solo, far from fun.

I have to agree with the observation that service in the USA is better in general terms than here in Canada. We have noticed and discussed it each of 5 times we have traveled in the U.S. It frustrates me. Poor service just takes away so much from an otherwise positive food experience.

Just an update on this topic. I went into Grand Central New York Deli tonight for a smoked meat sandwich. We were seated by the hostess at 5:55pm and at 6:12pm when no one bothered to serve us we left and went to Tavola and had dinner. The service there was exemplary.

Pleasant, efficient service! What a great concept!

Could it be simply that in the USA service staff gets paid really really poorly (its mostly tips) so they kind of have to go the extra mile?

Interesting thread.. I've had bad service in many countries and cities, I'm not sure it's an Ottawa thing. What I tend to notice here is the servers are in general much younger. Young people can provide great service, but I'm guessing since Ottawa's market is quite small, very few of these servers are trying to make a go in the hospitality business. In this city it does seem that most service is provided by perfectly nice students who simply can't wait to NOT serve you. Myself, I'm of the Jeffrey Steingarten persuasion when it comes to service - attentive, but unobtrusive, polite, professional. forums.egullet.org