Cure your own stuff [Cooking]

2008 Sep 7
I picked up the book CHARCUTERIE by Micheal Ruhlman and Brian Poleyn that absoulty kicks a#@! Im slowly working my way through all the recipes and having alot of fun with it. The picture I posted is of the Prosciutto's I started a month and a bit ago. Im hanging them tomorow in a nice spot for year! Ive also been succesfull at making my own "mushroom bacon", I cured my heritage pork (that I get from Upper Canada Heritage Meat based out of prescott) with porcini mushroom powder, fresh sage and maple sugar, this is the best bacon ever! Ive also made, black pepper bacon, regular smoke bacon, euro style unsmoked bacon, smoke hocks, tasso hams, lardos, smoked duck breast, of course salmon gravlax, smoke salmon, trout, sablefish (cold and hot smoked), salmon candy, mexican chorizo, pate, terrines and smoked cherries to name a few. I can really go on and on! Its fun and well worth the effort. If you have the space.... Im lucky enough to have my own 1200 square foot kitchen:)
If any of you are interested buy this book, it is the best that there is out there!! www.amazon.ca

2008 Sep 7
Here's a pic of my pancetta, I took down 5 days ago...mmmmmmmmmm Nothing like a good ole piece of hung.

2008 Sep 7
1200 sq ft kitchen! That's bigger than my whole house!

Nonetheless, this looks like a book that I need!

2008 Sep 8
I've been looking at that book with some interest, but I know that there's no way I can make any of the recipes until I have an actual house in which I could store my goods. Maybe I'll buy it anyway and drool.

Crap, I should try my hand at gravlax making.

2008 Sep 8
Ahhh greetings kindred spirits...

What a great topic...I am a pretty active charcueterer (sp?), and have been using the mentioned book as my bible, although I have also learned a lot from visiting delis, ham bars, farms in Corsica, Italy and Spain.

Ruhlman's book is great and every recipe I have tried has turned out quite well, I particularly appreciate their treatment of pate and terrines as this is a big area of interest of mine, and they really cover the basic techniques really well.

Currently I am working my way through a cured pork shoulder (whole coppa) and a piece of horse bresaola that i finished curing just before the humidity of summer set in. I can't wait for the cool fall weather to start my next big projects, a whole rear ham and a whole eye of round beef braseola. If any body knows how to source some top quality pork locally I'd appreciate your input.

DaB: I will look into Upper Canada Heritage Meat I am intrigued. It is certainly not worth putting all the effort of curing into an inferior piece of meat.

The one criticism I have encountered of Ruhlman's book is that they teach use of nitrates and nitrites in almost all their recipes. The argument goes that this is unnecessary if you do it properly and people have been curing in the traditions of Europe for years without these chemicals. I take the position that the authors have no choice other than to teach the public the safest, most foolproof method of curing whole cuts of meat that will never go above room temperature. That being said, I cure without saltpeter, pink salt or any of the other nitrate or nitrite products. I choose to take that risk, and understand other's probably wouldn't choose the same.

Anyone know of any good internet links or good books on this topic? I have seen the River Cottage Meat book, but never tried any of the recipes within. Any other suggestions?


2008 Sep 8
forums.egullet.org

Some funny stuff here and more info on the book.

The river cottage meat book is not that great unless you really know nothing about meat, then it could be interesting. The river cottage cookbook is much better. Although cider brining a ham and then cooking it in a bail of hay is fun.

Another good book for charcuterie is the C.I.A.'s garde manger. www.amazon.ca

Momo, gravlax is very simple and you can do it with one piece of fish, you dont need to make a whole salmons worth in one shot.

2008 Sep 8
Tracinho- The pork from heritage is very nice, but mucho price. Worth every cent for sure!!

2008 Sep 8
One of my local farmers Frank does pork - I've been very happy with it. See this thread for details : ottawafoodies.com

2008 Sep 8
Thanks for the info everyone...

Da B: Saslove's quoted me @ about 3.99/lb for Berkshire rear hams, which "apparently" works out to about $65-80 for the whole cut. If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of the cut at Heritage? Did you have the "H" bones removed, I can't tell from your pic.

Thanks, good luck, and enjoy your jamon in 12-18 months ;)

2008 Sep 8
Good point, Butcher: gravlax is more-or-less foolproof and easily scalable. And I'm sure that I could make a terrine without exploding anything.

Hey, speaking of which: has anybody seen terrine molds in their searches for kitchen-ware? Aluminum or steel jobbies that look like gigantic loaf pans? I half-heartedly look when the spirit moves me, but haven't ever had any luck finding them.

2008 Sep 8
Momomoto: They have the Le Cruset terrine dishes at Domus...and they cost a fortune.
To improvise, I use a plastic-wrap lined small ceramic casserole dish, fill it with the forcemeat and use something flat to weigh the top down as the terrine cools and I get good results for my various "pates en terrine".

2008 Sep 8
this is definitely a very cool thread. So a very basic question - to hang your meat - do you just leave it in your kitchen - or do you have a closed off cupboard or something? Just wondering as I'm not sure what my wife would think of a ham dangling from the ceiling. Also do you need to keep a fan or force air movement going around the stuff thats drying?

2008 Sep 8
re: local pork - www.ashtonglenfarm.ca/ they supply Beckta... so it's probably really good.

re: nitr(i/a)tes - the lawyers probably tossed that in there.

2008 Sep 8
sourdough- in another month your kitchen will be quite a suitable location, as long as it doesnt get to warm. I have a curing room, equiped with a air circulater, and thermo controller. I like the room to be around 50-60 degress with air movement.

Tracinho- I dont have my recipt here at home, but it was around $4.99/lbs I belive, mabey slighty more. I had the "h" bone removed and he also deviened it.

Momo- I just bought a nice ceramic terrine at a yard sale for 6 bucks! Keep your eyes open.

I like making breseola with a lamb leg.. Makes for real lamb flavor! No hiding the funk with this recipe!

2008 Sep 9
SD- I second DaB's comments. I think Ottawa fall/winter climate is perfect for curing as we have a humid climate so the cool, dry winter air isn't soooooo dry that your meat is drying too fast on the outside thereby trapping moisture in the interior, which can cause serious problems. Also it is key to do these types of things in fall/winter as there are NO FLYS.

One concern is too much sunlight, which can cause fat to go rancid. To combat this you could use an unplugged refrigerator with door open, fruit cellar, or wrap your cured products in cheesecloth which is breathable but protects from light. I personally hang my stuff in a window that gets no direct sun whatsoever and I have had no problems whatsoever, not even "good" (white) mold.

After the salt curing stage is over I generally wrap the cut with butcher twine, make a loop to hang, and then coat any exposed flesh with a thin layer of rendered pork lard and the rest is just patience.

DaB: your Lamb braseola sounds great...what cut do you use?

2008 Sep 9
Responses so far definitely mirror my experience: Ceramic terrines can be found pretty well everywhere, but they cost an arm and a leg. Good call on the garage sales, though, folks. That may be a better option than trying to find a metal one.

Hmmmm, it's been a while since I've checked out MCL Hospitality; maybe they've got some. I'll report back.

2008 Sep 9
Wow...
I can't make this stuff at my house (my son has to be watched whenever there is raw pork marinating in the fridge...he thinks it's a tasty snack). Can't really leave large chunks of curing meat where he could sample it.
So, Butcher or Tracinho:

when am I invited over for dinner?

2008 Sep 11
haha, Mousseline, im moving dec. 1st to a nice big space, so mabey then!!
You can use the closet in your spare room (with a lock on it of course).

Tracinho- Leg for the braseola.

2008 Oct 11
I'm wondering if anyone knows where to buy curing salts like Windor "Tender Quick" or similar in Ottawa? Haven't had any luck finding any.

Thx

2008 Oct 25
I'm just starting in Charcuterie, have made some sausages, have a pork terrine in the fridge that I just made, etc. I would like to know how people are controlling temp and humidity for making hams or dry cured sausages. I see internet posts where people make their own but would like to avoid that if possible.

2008 Oct 26
Humidity is the only problem. Dehumidifying can be done though! I use a dehumidifier, air purifier and a temperature gauge. I also have a air conditioner in the room if it gets to warm. I keep my room at 58 degrees with good air circulation. Sometimes its a little warmer (63)somtimes a little colder(50). I check my hams daily and you got deal with the problems before they happen. No doubt at one point or another you'll see mold. If it happens, just scape it off and rub it with a salt brine and dehumidify your room quickly. I started my 3 hams in august and there looking better all the time. You have to be careful about were you cure them, make sure its really clean. Even books etc contain spores which could potentially contaminate your precious meat.

2008 Oct 26
What's the ideal humidity? Couldn't you just buy one of those special fridges for wine that control humidity? Or I'm thinking build an insulated box and run it with a window air conditioner, which also dehumidifies. This might be a good project for me over the winter!

2008 Oct 27
zym- The ideal humidity is about 65%. This can easily be done with the help of a air contioner. I know lots of people who have built a curing spaces out of old fridges etc...

2008 Oct 27
My first full ham is coming out of the dry cure on Wednesday! Just 18 months to go hahaha. I followed the 1 day/lb in salt(ie: 16 days for 16 pound whole rear ham) and I believe it will be ready to hang by mid-week.

Da Butcher: I plan to construct a "ham holder" as seen in the pic for a winter project. I also sourced a Heinckels ham slicing knife (non-serrated, long and flexible) at the Cookware Shop on Bank St. for 30 bucks or so, so that I will be able to slice "Spanish style" ie: along the bone.

RE: humidity and mold

My experience and research indicate that whole cuts are a bit easier to deal with than sausages, just because the interior of a sausage has been exposed to a lot more potential contaminants (via the grinder) than the interior muscle of a whole cut. I have yet to see anyone anywhere complete the drying stage of a sausage in a wine cellar, barn or back room, however this is common practice for whole cuts in Europe.

If you want to put the all the required effort into dry-cured sausages, a dedicated, humidity controlled fridge (with a big tray of salt water in the bottom) seems like the smart and advised way to go.

2008 Oct 27
Thanks for the comments - looks like a winter project for me coming up!

2009 Feb 9
Update!

Michael Ruhlman just posted on his blog (blog.ruhlman.com) that you can now buy freeze-dried bacterial culture for sausagemaking online: www.butcher-packer.com

Using those bad boys you can seed your sausage with good flora and prevent the bad flora from being able to establish.

Oh, and while I didn't find the Terrine Mold of My Dreams, I did end up picking up a "meat loaf pan" from Williams-Sonoma that may fit the bill nicely. It's sturdy, it's non-stick, and it looks to be a bit taller than the loaf pans I currently use for banana bread, etc.

www.williams-sonoma.com

It also has a removable perforated insert, so that you can drain fat away from the meatloaf while it cooks. Won't use it when making terrines, but it's an interesting thing.

2009 Feb 11
**Momomoto* - That is one cool looking Meat Loaf Pan... I love the drain away feature.

Ya got me thinking I should make a Meat Loaf, it's been awhile.

2009 Feb 11
I will take some recent pics of my hams in the next couple of errr days..So they have been hanging since the fist week of sept. There smelling and looking fantastic! I just started 15 lbs of goose breast pancetta, there looking good too. Smoking 12kgs of salmon tomorow morning, and just finished 12kgs 2 days ago! Oh ya, what about my salmon candy and smoked sablefish sablefish?

2009 Feb 27
Heres a updated pic of the hams I started in august. There looking sweet! Those little packages hanging are the other half of the goose and duck pancettas I started on the last post. Photo to follow.......

2009 Feb 27
the final product.

2009 Feb 28
Man oh man! Dat looks some good !!

You are Da Masta !! Da Masta Butcher !!!

What's the start to end time for the hams ?

I have a clean unused bedroom I could use. I can control the heat in there and have a dehumidifier, if necessary.

Will I have to wait till next fall to do a couple of hams or is there enough cold seanson left to start them now ?

Drewl drewl drewl ....

PS: I wonder if the pie plates in the picture are to keep the mice/rats off the hams ?


2009 Feb 28
Just buy a used fridge caper! Set it to the highest setting and place a pan of salted water in the bottom for added humidity. Test the fridge temp before you buy it. At its highest (warmest) setting it should sit right at 60 degrees f. The summer or mice would not affect your final product. If you do a shoulder ham, it could be done within 4-5 months, a whole leg could take 10 months to more than a couple years! I started 3 at the same time to try them at different stages to taste the difference more time allows. The first and smallest of the 3 should be ready around april/may. The middle one should be done by july, and the last one gonna "hang" around much longer.

P.S. Mushroom season starts again soon....

2009 Feb 28
I am very keen on this thread, as I have been making my own cured brisket and bacon and smoking it for some time. I am elated to see so many people interested and plying their expertise in charcuterie ... Good on us all! And, yes, I have the same reference books.
I have funny story: For years I used to buy potassium nitrate (saltpetre) in 2-ounce plastic bottles at the pharmacy. But after 9-11 it was all removed because it was considered an explosive! So, I phoned a chemical co. in Gloucester, and they said it's for sale in 25-pound sacks for $60! TWENTY=FIVE POUNDS! Well, I don't NEED 25 pounds, I want 2 or 4 ounces. So, thru the U.S.A. I ordered and received 2 pounds, which will last my lifetime. And, I wonder, if the authorities decree we cannot buy 2 stupid ounces because of potential terrorist attacks, why can we by a 25-pound sack at a fraction of the price I pay for a small amount???
What a great (albeit confused) country?!
Heck, I just want to make cured meat.
Kind regards to all, RonEade.com


2009 Apr 2
I finally broke down and cracked into the smallest of my three hams.(photo pictured here) -----> All I have to say is....wow.. once you get into that baby its is absolutely amazing! The next one should be done it about a month and the big one will be "hanging" out for quite some time. The ham I cracked into I'm using for one of the
hors d’oeuvres to be served at the genie awards this Saturday. I sliced the whole thing up today and had a good fed while doing it!
Just got back from Montreal yesterday and found myself with big bag of hog tails and jowls.... Sounds like a terrine to me. Ill post again with my "head and tail" terrine...

2009 Apr 2
Check out my last post!

Okay one more, close up...
I used a heritage breed "Large Black" hog from upper canada heritage meats in prescott for the ham.

2009 Apr 2
Yum... *drool* Congrats on scoring the Genie's gig!

Edit: Last time I was at Nicastro's on Merivale they were doling out large chunks of pork for curing, along with salts, etc., all seemed at very reasonable prices and lots of old Italian men were lining up for their cuts.

2009 Apr 3
Well done...my ham is about 6 months in and going well I will try and get some pics up. DaB: How did you slice the ham, into cubes or thin slices or a bit of both? What did you use to slice?

By the way: cured pork jowl for guanciale = the best pasta carbonara you will ever have ;)

2009 Apr 4
To follow up on pennopoly's previous post, does anyone have a local source for prague powder/tenderquick/any other curing salt? I'm drawing a blank and would rather just pick something up locally if possible, but I haven't had any luck so far.

2009 Apr 4
MBD- You can get curing salt at nicasro's on merivale @6.99/kg the ratio is 2% by wieght of the meat, so a kg goes along way!

Tracinho- I sliced it all paper thin with my meat slicer. The bits and pieces went into a tomato sauce. The fat rendered for pork hock confit. We started a couple jowls for guanciale two days ago! Ill post pics when there done.

My idea for my terrine is now evolving.
Cheeks, feet and tail terrine with a center of foie gras and pornini mushrooms. I wont have time to do this till tuesday next week.

I also have two whole beef briskets ready for smoking! Pastrami time in the near future!

The morels are slowly working there way up. Georgia is getting hit big time right now! Its gona be a early season this year, and hopfully a bit longer than last!

2009 Apr 7
Da Butcher: I tried nicastro's on merivale and they told me that they don't carry it. Are you sure that's where it was from? If so, I'll have another go at it and just assume that the staff that day was not quite as top-notch as usual.

Thanks again!

2009 Apr 7
man blogs dog-->>>>>
Ya, i would maybe call down and talk to a manager. That's weird, there was loads of the stuff last time I was there, although, it was sausage season (mid sept). Maybe they only bring it in once a year? You can also buy pure sodium nitrate at 168 market, kowloon and uni, you need to mix it with salt to make your own "ready cure" or "tcm". Go on line to find out the exact ratios. I believe its 93.75% salt and 6.25% nitrate. If all this is too much to congest, you can just order a kilo from here... www.butcher-packer.com/
Good luck with your hunt..... A platter of some of my latest creations--->

2009 Apr 8
I have a background in chemistry, so mixing things up is no problem at all, I was just annoyed that they apparently didn't have it. I love Kowloon (and they're probably a fantastic source for pork belly), so maybe I'll give them a try. Thanks!

Your platter looks fantastic, as an aside.

2009 Apr 8
DaB: Nice spread..esp like the look of your ham and braesaola (i think?).

How were your hams for saltiness?

2009 Apr 8
The salt was good for the ham, just the outer bits a bit salty. (perfect for pasta) The beef in the photo is a black pepper and celeriac cured beef ive been making. I just picked up 2kg of elk and a whole lobe of foie gras... What am I to do?

2009 Apr 8
so DaB when is the tasting session :) Maybe Zym can bring the beer.

2009 Apr 8
Oh I can definitely bring the beer to that tasting!!!

Da Butcher can even order his favorite style in advance provided I get sufficient warning!

2009 Apr 8
DaB, good work
looks fab

2009 Apr 9
Mabey we can combine a tasting with a bbq/potluck/winetasting/beer drinking or somthing along these lines? Spring is at our doorsteps! If we planned a time I can prepare some stuff for the event!

2009 Apr 10
That would actually be kind of fun, as scary as the thought of meeting internet people is.

2009 Apr 10
I could get behind this.

2009 Apr 11
Moi aussi !

Pulled Pork Sammies anyone ?

Check this thread out for reference:

ottawafoodies.com

.... and a good Ottawa Foodie supplied the dry rub recipe for the pork.


2009 Apr 12
Capers, --> you still got your hands on that bradley smoker?

Currently making....... Guanciale X2 (my friends project), Celeriac Cured Beef Tenderlion X1 , Braesaola X1,

Coming in the near future... Peameal Rolled Rabbit Bacon, Lamb bacon, bison bacon, smoked ham in hay, head to tail pork terrine, foie gras confit, beef tounge pastrami, veal brain croqettas.....

Attached is a photo of the pig I ate tonight with some freinds for easter. (milk fed piglet)

2009 Apr 13
Hey Butchie,

Nice swine pic.

"Here piggy piggy !!" .... Drewl Drewl !!

Yup I'm sittn' on the Bradley and just got Apple and Hickory and Cherry and some other wood 'Biskets'.

Stand by for my next smoke project.


2009 Apr 13
CC - how do you like the Bradley? Your thoughts on it?

2009 Apr 14
A coworker picked up a Bradley smoker on sale ($280) from Canadian Tire a few weeks ago and he has nothing but praise for it. The same one is around $300 at Le Baron, which is also a reasonable price. It's a cool and slow electric smoker with separate elements for cooking food and making smoke. If you want any charring on your meat you need to finish it on a grill.

He gave me a bit of leftover maple-smoked chicken at lunch yesterday and it was scrumptious!

2009 Apr 14
Yeah, I know a few guys that have them and as far as the smoking goes they are pretty fantastic. The only part I don't like is that you are locked into buying those pucks.

2009 Apr 14
Zym: I wonder if it's possible to make your own pucks? Or maybe you can fool the puck dispenser by dropping a bunch of wood in every twenty minutes when it tries to throw a new puck in? I haven't seen much Bradley-hacking on the Internet, but it might be doable.


2009 Apr 14
I have the same bradley smoking attachment I use at work. Its stuck on the side of a double door fridge. In stead of "feeding" it pucks. You can just keep placing a little pile of shaved wood chips on the heating element.(you can make the chips your self or buy them cheap at c tire) Just kinda defeats the convinence of the self feeder. If your smoking alot and dont mind checking on it every now and again, you can do it with out the pucks.

2009 Apr 17
I just lub my friends Bradley. He lets me store it/use it until he wants it.

The Biskets are approx $19/48 (taxes in) at LeBaron. One bisket smokes for approx 20 minutes I use approx 6-9 per load (2 to 2.5 hours of smoke) thus the cost per load is approx $2.40 to $3.60.

What I save, by not getting Foie Gras at Absinthe, I put into Bradley Biskets !

If things get really tight I'll switch to manual feed (a-la Da Butcher's method) and get my hardwood saw dust at a local sawmill.


2009 Apr 17
You might be able to manufacture your own biscuits by mashing saw dust, wood chips and a cornstarch mixture. Create a ring mold with some tin, like a cookie cutter, by tracing the size of the factory standard biscuit on a piece of paper, etc. Might not be that hard, actually.

2009 May 20
I was visiting my parents on the weekend and checked in on my latest and ongoing charcuterie project which I thought I would share...Rideau Valley cured ham!! (or maybe Jambon Cru d'Outaouais??)

I picked up the leg up at Aubrey's (from a Plantagenet farm, not sure the one), started salt-curing on Thanksgiving and after about 5-6 weeks in salt I hung it in the fruit cellar. The temp is around 55 degrees right now. It is firm to the touch and completely edible as is...but I think I am going to wait at least another 8 months to a year to slice in.

Mold has been a bit more prevalent as temperatures slowly rise, mostly white so far which is fine, but there has been a bit of green mold which was scraped and washed off with a little red wine vinegar.


2009 May 20
Nice work tracinho!!
Im still waiting to crack into the other two of mine, maby by xmas? We'll see, Ive branded mine as Capital drive cured ham!

2009 May 21
DaButcher: I long for the day when local ham producers have to settle on a geographical indicator for our world class hams...we'll show those Iberian and Italian 'cartels' what Canadians can do ;)

2009 Oct 9
After 1 year and a bit, I could not wait anymore. The core along the bone has a hazelnut/parmesan like aroma. Okay im cutting into this bad boy. All I can say is wow... I have not had better dried hams than this.

Tracinho> Is yours still "hanging" around?

2009 Oct 10
Funny you should ask Da B. I am at the one year mark, and i plan to slice/package give away at least half my ham tomorrow. I did some test slicing 3 weeks ago and I was pleasantly surprised; the first few nice slices that came off were not too salty at all with excellent texture and flavour. Since it is the time of the year to start new projects, I want to do a proper full on tasting before starting multiple hams...I'll report back after slicing tasting and contemplation is complete, I am making a wooden ham holder today!

2009 Oct 10
So where do I line up for these giveaways? :-P

I really have to read up on this stuff and see if there is any possible way for me to set myself up in my small house ...

2009 Oct 13
I second Zym's question - if there is anyway to contribute financially to create a ham co-op I'm in! (I promise not to tell the evil ontario/canadian overlord health meat folks .....) I can see the headlines now - I thought they said Black Forest ham, not Black Market ham :)

2009 Oct 13
Hahaha I have been trying to sell my buddies on a ham co-op, I figure we need a Preston street storefront ;) I sliced mine yesterday, colour is just perfect (nitrate free I might add), flavour is great (a bit mild actually, but there is some good funkiness) I’ll post the pics later today or tomorrow. I sliced about 300-400g and it wasn't much of a dent in the ham.

Seriously though, I’d like to expand operations and am considering doing so...but there are still some kinks to be worked out. High quality raw pork is really expensive (Healthy Butcher in TO quoted me at $7.99 A POUND for unbutchered rear Berkshire hams on the weekend) That is like $170+ a ham just to get it home from the butcher. Really expensive, I paid less than half that from Aubrey’s who sourced from a small nearby farm. Also, it would be better to get big hams from 250-300 lb pigs (more fat, longer cure, better taste, less salty as well), but in NAmerica most pigs are butchered around 150 lb because we like really lean loin roasts, tenderloins, pork chops etc.

Secondly, ask a butcher for a whole rear ham, trotter on, and they look at you like you are crazy or at least a kindred spirit. Ask for 6 or 7 and they think you are on a mescaline trip. Most butchers tell me it would take anywhere from 4-6 weeks to accumulate that many. So in some ways you need a better link to the abbatoir or small-scale farmer to cut out the middle man...perhaps DaButcher has more ideas about that challenge.

Finally, space is also key I use a fruit/wine cellar at my parent’s place which is perfect, but it isn’t in Ottawa. Anyway, pics are to follow...

2009 Oct 13
I would talk to Lavergne Western Beef about your pigs Tracinho.

2009 Oct 15
Here are some pics of my ham...

2009 Oct 15
Still getting the hang of hand slicing...

2009 Oct 15
Looks really nice Tracinho. Quick question... why are you slicing it that way? I've only seen hams sliced perpendicular to the way it looks like you are slicing. Is there something I can learn here???

2009 Oct 15
Italian cured hams that you see in delis and supermarkets here are typically deboned and then cold pressed to give it a the distinctive shape and can be sliced perpendicularly across the grain. Spanish style-hams often have the bone left in and need to be sliced along the bone because that is the only way you can get a decent-sized slice. Slicing it against the grain (i.e: Italian-style) probably results in a slice that is even more tender, but I don't have a way to debone and press a ham!

2009 Oct 15
Oh good point on the bone... I guess it's like slicing a bone in ham vs a ham with no bone. Can you debone and press the hame before you cure it? I think you can for sure debone it before, or would it lose some of its flavour? As for pressing, I was reading that for Prosciutto di San Daniele, they put the hams on top of each other to press... which I guess you could simulate by using a cast iron pan and bricks?

Anyway, great looking product... is any of it available for sale/consumption? :)

2009 Oct 15
Hey guys - I have a smoker and have toyed with the idea of doing sausages, bacon, and other meats which require some sort of cure when being smoked (due to the low temperature, I believe?)

A lot of recipes I read call for 'Cure #1' and 'Cure #2'. Other recipes call for Morton's Tender Quick. Where can I get these in Ottawa? I'd rather not be playing around with mixing salt + sodium nitrate/saltpeter and all that.

Any insight would be much appreciated.


2009 Oct 16
Monty: There is a forum thread on here that deals with finding "pink salt" in Ottawa, I believe the consensus was New 168 on Somerset and Nicastro's. Have a search for "pink salt" or "sodium nitrate/nitrite" and you should find what was discussed.

2009 Oct 18
Nice work Tracinho, look good!
As for getting a line on hams, that should not be a problem if your organized and know when you want them. Then again, why not buy the whole hog and do terrines, peameal bacon, pancetta etc...I was at the farm today and seen 35 little hams running around! Dont forget about the liver!!!

Monty>>> You dont need nitrates to make bacon! Unless you want "pink" bacon. Go to china town and buy a pork belly, rub it with equal parts salt/sugar and what ever spices tickles your fancy, leave it in your fridge for 5 to 7 days depending on thickness, flipping it every other day. Wash the "cure" off after 5-7 days. Put it on a cooling rack on a roasting pan in your fridge overnight to form a "Pellicle" The next day fire up your bradley and set it at 200f and smoke it till it reaches 150f. Should take about 4-5 hours. Cool it down and enjoy your bacon. If you wanted bacon that you can leave hanging up in your kitchen window for the winter.... Well thats another story....

2009 Oct 30
This thread is fascinating! As someone who is very new to charcuterie I would pay someone to give me a demonstration : )

2009 Oct 30
I'm drooling my way through this whole thread.

2009 Oct 30
Sometimes I eat ham....

2010 Mar 14
This looks like the best thread in which to put this note to self :-)

www.uga.edu


2010 Mar 15
I just called Nicastro's on Merivale and they do carry Sodium Nitrite so I'm going over later in the week to get some.

2010 Mar 15
zymurgist,

Thanks for the heads up re Nicastro's carrying Sodium Nitrite. I've been looking for a local source.

Also two thumbs up on the NCHFP link in your previous post. I copied and saved that info a while back. I use them as my bible for safe "tested" home food preservation information. Man, the folks down south have us beat hands down when it comes to local university based co-op's and food safety.

2010 Mar 15
Dry garlic boar sausage!

2010 Mar 16
fine work there DB...those look delicious


2010 Mar 16
I finally ordered the charcuterie book!

2010 Mar 16
OMG, Da Butcher, your the dry garlic boar sausage looks phenomenal. Gonna walk over to the Sausage Kitchen. I`ve now got a huge craving. *sigh*

2010 Mar 16
DB, do you take walk-ins? I may need to snag some of that sausage off of you. I'm dreaming of that and huge-ass red wines.

2010 Mar 16
zym - DB's photo just put me over the edge. i just found a used copy and ordered it!

2010 Mar 16
The Ottawa Public Library has it for anyone else interested.

I also picked up

www.amazon.ca

and

www.amazon.ca

My pig farmer says that the Charcuterie book is not quite complete, and the first one above completes it. And he also speaks very highly of the 2nd one.

2010 Mar 16
Haha, thx guys. They are awsome and very easy to make. Just takes time and a little space. The recipe I used is straight out of charcuterie page 193 "saucisson sec" I go a little off path cause I like alot of black pepper in mine.
From sept to end of march is perfect for curing in a cold room. Im pretty much done most of the dry curing I will be needed till next sept.

zym- that book on fermenting salumi is great. Charcuterie covers a little bit of everything with the exception being fermented sausages. I still recommend it to anyone how wants to get into doing a little on the side.

Momo- sorry buddy, but there is only a little bit of the sausage left and someone has ordered it!

2010 Mar 16
No worries, man. I think that your real customers take preference over civvies like me ;)

2010 Mar 16
Note to everyone that the cure they sell at nicastro's is
(Canada compounds "ready-cure") which contains only 1% nitrate as well as baking soda for tenderizing. You will have to adjust your recipes if you use this product. It works great, but you CAN NOT substitute this for prague powder #1 or #2 or you WILL get yourself and others sick!

Dab

2010 Mar 19
Don't have my books yet but want to order from sausagemaker.com ASAP. I have the readycure from Nicastro but want the other stuff too, and might as well order some of this at the same time.

What do each of these fermenting bacterium do -for 15 bucks each i'm not going to get all of them?

#19007 Bactoferm LHP (Pediococcus acidilactici & Pediococcus pentosaceus)

#19008 Bactoferm F-RM-52 (Lactobacillus sakei & Staphylococcus carnosus)

#19009 Bactoferm T-SPX (Pediococcus pentosaceus & Staphylococcus xylosus)

2010 Mar 19
Da Butcher - glad someone finally clarified that it's not Instacure #1!

zymurgist - i haven't dabbled with fermented sausage before, but a lot of recipes i read call for Fermento which is cultured whey protein and skim milk. gives you that tang in summer sausages (ie cervelat...if FF is reading)

www.sausagemaker.com

2010 Mar 22
Anyone want to do a bulk buy of Readycure directly from the manufacturer?

I have confirmed from them that it is 1% sodium nitrite. And I have the following pricing for it as well as some of the starters for fermented meats. The readycure is pretty darned cheap in bulk! The starter cultures are each good for 100kg of meat (50g each of culture)

READY CURE 1 kg. PKG. - $3.15/EA
READY CURE / 25 kg.- $24.73/Bag
BITEC LS-25 STARTER CULTURE- $13.61/UNIT
BITEC LM-1 - STARTER CULTURE-$13.68/UNIT
BITEC RP3-STARTER CULTURE (WESTFALIAN) - $21.70/UNIT

2010 Mar 22
zym i wouldn't stock up on that Readycure if you're planning on doing bacon/sausages frequently. it's a substitute for Tenderquick, not Instacure #1.

while you can retool the ratios in recipes, it's much easier using Instacure #1 since a lot of recipes out there call for a measured amount directly.

my thoughts...

2010 Mar 22
Zym- good to know you trust the info I provide on this thread! ;) Considering that they also sell prague powder I dont know why you would be intested in readycure for the reasons monty just mentioned. Im sure some people may be into going in on some prague powder though.

Monty- thay fermento stuff tastes like as@ and I would not recomened using it unless your totally out of options.

2010 Mar 22
Who also sells Prague powder? The readycure people? I did not see it on their website. Honestly, though, I don't want anything that turns my meat pink because it has pink dye in it.

I don't see the issue using readycure in place of instacure - it is just simple math. A simple percentage of sodium nitrite - and one that I see as not needing to be too terribly precise when the meat will be cooked afterwards. What am I missing here? But just the same, the conversion I did seems pretty precise to me. From the bit of reading I've done so far, it seems that nitrAte is the ingredient of choice for anything not being cooked, anyway. Recall that I've always done my bacon without nitrites.

BTW, I have confirmed from the company that it is 1%

EDIT: any interest in the starter cultures?

2010 Mar 22
zymurgist it's the nitrites that give the meat the deep red colour. your readycure will probably do the same thing.

i guess it's not a problem substituting in something like bacon where you can soak in water after curing. however, if Instacure #1 has ~6% sodium nitrite and Readycure has 1% - then you'll naturally have to use more Readycure to get the proper amount of nitrite/cure. that could mean significantly more salt than desired. i know in the bacon recipe it's easy to just offset the amount of salt, but following a lot of recipes out there you won't be able to do that.

for the record i am not hot smoking when using cures, mostly temperatures < 170F and sometimes even close to a cold smoke. this is hazardous if there isn't enough cure in the meat!

not big into sausage making yet so i don't need any starer cultures.

thanks for the heads up re: Fermento hahaha!

2010 Mar 22
Yeah, could be monty - but in this case I just had to reduce the salt and it all worked out in the end. I got the same amount of both nitrite and salt as your original recipe. I emailed the company to ask if they had something with a higher percentage, though.

As for the nitrites giving the meat the colour, I'm not convinced. Instacure is dyed pink by legislation in the US. That has to come through to the meat. I'll find out soon enough in any case. I'm going to do a bunch of experimenting in the near future with different bacon cures and brines :-)

2010 Mar 22

Canada compounds sells the following cures-
California Ham Cure
Ready Cure
Corned Beef Cure
Regal All Purpose Cure
Picklefix
Sodium Nitrate Pure
Prague Powder

RE: Honestly, though, I don't want anything that turns my meat pink because it has pink dye in it.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HA
ZYM- THAT IS SOME FUNNY SH&T MAN!!! HAHAHA

2010 Mar 23
I don't use it, but the curing salts are dyed pink primarily so you don't accidentally use too much or mistake it for regular salt and poison yourself. I suppose they could choose any colour, but since hams and bacon are pink, green cure wouldn't exactly look very appetizing. I'd be more concerned about the nitrite/nitrate in my meat than the dye, but hey that's just me. If done properly, cured meats will stay very scarlet pink in the interior without curing salt, but you don't have that extra safeguard against botulism....

2010 Mar 23
What's so funny Da Butcher? Part of the reason I want to do this stuff myself is so that I don't have crap in it. I count artificial dyes in that. My readycure was not dyed pink that I could see (am admittedly somewhat colourblind) so maybe it is just a US thing? I'll check the pricing on some of their other compounds - they do not seem to have any of the ones you listed on their website.

2010 Mar 23
More pricing info. They sent me the spec sheet on the prague powder and it is 6.4% sodium nitrite.

California Ham Cure- $3.98/kg- $58.99/box of 27kg
Regal All Purpose Cure $47.24/bag of 25kg
Picklefix- $$2.57/kg or $26.05/bag of 25kg
Sodium Nitrate Pure- We no longer carry this product.
Prague Powder- $2.40/kg or $30.25/bag of 25kg

I also have the spec sheets on the other items. They are low in nitrites and have sorbates and stuff in there - not of interest to me.

Their prague powder also does not seem to have pink dye. EDIT: now confirmed from them

2010 Mar 23
if they have Instacure #1/Prague Powder #1 i would be interested in buying my next batch from a Canadian company, rather than mail ordering in USD

what's their contact info? is it these guys - www.canadacompound.com ?

thanks

2010 Mar 23
Yeah, they do - see pricing above. It is 6.4% versus 6.25%, and does not have pink dye. But otherwise the same.

But if we pool in on 25kg it is way cheaper :-) Though I suspect even just the 1kg will be a lot cheaper than what you currently get via mail order.

EDIT: yes, that is them. Just use the "contact us" from the website and they are very responsive.

2010 Mar 23
zym- Do you like what your ready cure does to your meat? Do you like the texture baking soda creates when curing with this stuff? Do you like making calculations everytime you find a new recipe for something cured? I dont.

lol "pink salt" its dyed its.....scary...lol

2010 Mar 23
I don't know yet what baking soda does since this is the first time I've used this and I have no alternative, so I guess I'll find out. I like to experiment, especially with new recipes and ideas. I like to try a bunch of different things, compare results, and then eliminate the things I do not like. I won't know whether or not I like this, until I try it.

As for calculations, I don't mind at all. I used to be a major math whiz at one point in time and enjoy exercising that part of my brain from time to time since I do not do it very often. And besides, I only have to do that once per recipe. I'll never again have to do it with bacon. I also enjoy doing the leg work so that others will not have to. In my googling I found a fair number of people looking for that conversion info, and the only 1 who provided it made it sound a lot more complicated than it is.

And yes, I don't trust a lot of food dyes. In fact it is red dyes which have been the scariest over the years. Anyone remember red dye #2?

www.time.com,9171,945520,00.html

There are other dyes on the market today which are suspect. red #40 being one of them as I recall. I'd sooner take my chances with the baking soda, honestly. But given that I've just found a source of prague powder which is not dyed pink I'll happily give it a try and compare results.

en.wikipedia.org

Red #40
Red #2

Linked to hyperactivity in kids. Yum, yum! Just what I want to feed my kids!

2010 Apr 1
i just got my copy of Charcuterie in the mail last night. i read the preamble by Thomas Keller, and i have to say, i have never been more psyched on MEAT! can't wait to try something here.

Da Butcher - i skimmed through and noticed Fermento was called for in a few recipes...what's so foul about it?

2010 Apr 1
I got my copy the other day as well and just started flipping through it - getting pretty psyched!

From the little I've read on fermento the name seems to be a misnomer - it looks like it is a non-fermenting drop-in replacement for fermented cultures that tries to mimic some of the characteristics of the fermented products.

2010 Apr 1
Zym hit it right on the nail. Fermento is fermented "flavoring"

2010 Jul 15
The wife just ordered me to make pastrami for her - looked it up, and I'm good to go! Stay tuned for video :-P

2010 Jul 15
Hope she doesn't want it soon....usually brine the brisket for 3 weeks!!!!

2010 Jul 15
dry cure or wet cure?

2010 Jul 15
Interesting thread. FYI: nitrate and nitrites chemically react with meat to cause the red colour, not dyes or food colouring. This is what makes bbq pork red on the outside: a rubbing of saltpetre to minimize bacterial contamination. The inside remains true to form as "the other white meat" because it is not cured long enough for the nitrate to penetrate,.

If you want to go "all natural" for cured meats, try dry powdered celery juice, which is naturally high in nitrates. Personally, I find this fad a silly one, as the same chemicals are involved regardless of how you get it.

2010 Jul 15
The charcuterie book calls for a wed brine monty - anyone else have a better idea? I'm open to suggestions.

2010 Jul 15
Definitely wet cure. can always use some of the paprika rub to infuse the brine. I've got a couple of tongues in the fridge..might have to make some tongue pastrami

2010 Sep 18
I'm joining the charcuterie club. Just got Ruhlman's book and now i'm sourcing my equipment and components. Was it easy to find pink salt in Ottawa?

I'm most looking forward to getting locally raised pork and working with that. My local butcher (Bisson in gatineau) gets everything locally and I can probably put in a special order for anything I want to cure. They save me the prized Hanger Steak (Onglet) every time they get a cow in. So I trust they'll be a great source. Otherwise, Saslove's in Hintonburg should be the next best choice. I wondered if they could supply me with curing salt....anyone know?

I also picked up a Kitchenaid pro 600 for $479 - $50 rebate and free shipping at www.cayneshousewares.com

Here's the rebate... www.therebatecompany.com

The grinder is $59 there which also beats any price (hahah beats) I've seen anywhere else.

Use code AUTSEPT63 for free shipping !

Great deal to get started in the charcuterie craft.


2010 Sep 18
I'm not at all impressed with the kitchen aid grinder and sausage attachment. The problem is that the plunger that you are supposed to use to push the stuff down the tube is not engineered to fit perfectly in there, so what happens is that you have stuff squeezing up and out the top around the plunger, and very little of the pressure you are exerting is being used to push the meat through the grinder. I found it to be an extremely frustrating experience.

2010 Sep 19
I second the sausage stuffer attachment not working well. I like the grinder as a grinder, that is all.

2010 Nov 18
first batch of pancetta after 4 weeks of curing.. made a nice pasta with it tonight - fantastic!

2010 Nov 18
second picture..

2010 Nov 18
Wow, that pancetta looks positively incredible!!! Congratulations!

Are you able to share your method?

2010 Nov 18
method / ingredients mainly from the Ruhlman/Poleyn book with some variation. Kept mine refrigerated a touch longer and didn't roll the belly when drying. Figured I'd get a more even drying hanging the whole slab.

ingredients laid out in the picture - garlic, cure#2, kosher salt, brown sugar, pepper, bay leaves, nutmeg, thyme. book recipe calls for juniper berries which i didnt use. I threw a bit more pepper than called for - i like my meat a bit spicier. :)


2010 Nov 18
the meat I started with - have the other 3/4 of it in the freezer for future use. meat from the manotick village butcher - james is a great guy.

2010 Nov 18
same day, worked on a prociutto which is currently in salt box. meat also came from manotick village butcher.

2010 Nov 18
in the salt mix..

2010 Nov 20
My first post! you guys/girls are making me drool. I just ate at the murray st kitchen last night and they do charcuterie my wife and I split a plate for an appetizer. It was delicious and made me read this thread! It is a high end restaurant with prices to match but really good if you cant wait a year for your own to finish. They have a lot of local farmers products here and some amazing mustards and cheeses to match. Here is a link to the charcuterie menu in case anyone is interested in a restaurant doing this kind of thing.

hmm dont see how to make a link..

www.murraystreet.ca

2010 Nov 20
I really need to visit Murray St Kitchen.. i've been meaning to go for the last year but keep canceling out. Hrmph. Will have to make a renewed effort over the next couple of weeks!

2010 Nov 21
Murray Street charcuterie's fantastic. One of those platters and a glass of wine and I'm a happy camper.

2010 Nov 21
I need to hang my pork leg today... tried slip knotting the shank to hang but it keeps slipping off.

Is it ok to use a zinc coated metal hook? I understand some metal hooks should not be used - any idea guys?

2010 Nov 24
still haven't hung my leg. doh!

This weekend, I took the leg out of the salt box, covered the exposed areas with lard, pepper and wrapped the entire thing with cloth to hang.

2010 Nov 24
peppered...

2010 Nov 24
and wrapped.

2010 Nov 25
Kitchenvirtue, I use household electrical wire threaded through a hole punched through the leg. It is plastic coated, and very strong if you wrap it around itself a few (3-4) times. Cheap and cheerful.

2010 Nov 25
Fermented Pancetta

Cured 4 days, including bacterial culture.
Vac packed.
Left at room temperature in basement for 6 months.

It had a 5 way with eggs, pasta, parmesan and pepper, resulting in a very nice carbonara.

2010 Nov 25
What did you use for a starter culture single serving? And where did you get the culture?

2010 Nov 26
I used a starter culture from Malabar Super Spice out of Toronto.

The Sausage Maker Inc www.sausagemaker.com/ out of Buffalo has a superior selection of stuff for the home curer. I use a PO Box in Ogdensburg to save shipping $$.

Actually, it's about time to order some new supplies, now that you get me thinking about it.


2011 Jan 29
Humidity for dry curing

Curing experts, I need your advice: I read that ideal humidity should be around 60%. That seems to be quite humid (our basement has around 23%).
I wonder: does it really have to be 60%? And if so, what are simple ways to get a humidity of 60%?

Many thanks!

2011 Jan 29
BTW, the pork legs pictured in the original photo above are not a proper cut to be a real Prosciutto. If you want the proper cut, come see me at work :-) We did some yesterday for an old Italian fellow - really nice old fellow. A proper Prosciutto needs to be a longer cut, including some of the belly and loin. But unless you deal with someone who cuts from a whole carcass, you are going to get the standard short cut shown. Even the Italian grocers in town do not have a proper Prosciutto cut by my recollection.

2011 Jan 29
userZ. Low humidity can cause the outside of your stuff to dry too quickly, which can result in a fairly stiff, relatively moisture impermeable barrier barrier surrounding the moist inside. Leads to all manner of safety and consistency issues.

Bacon is fairly forgiving, as is thin salami. Thick salami is not. Prosciutto can be made to handle low humidity for a while.

Basically, you need a humid box with a bit of air circulation...here are they ways I did it:

1) Buy a 100 year-old farm house with a damp basement. Pro: Works well in spring and fall. Con: not as cheap as it used to be.

2) Buy a secondhand fridge and put a dish of heavily salted (to control bacteria) water inside it. Pro: you can control humidity and temperature. Con: Other people want to use your fridge for party food etc...

3) Rig-up plastic in a Dexter-like tent around your stuff and use a spray bottle or drape the plastic low enough to hold the aforementioned plate of water. Pro: Cheap & may get you a Canada Council Grant as an art installation. Cons: No temp control. Spraying can generate some funky molds that you will have to clean-up with vinegar as they form & you will definitely scare the heck out of anyone that accidentally comes across it.

I hope this was a bit helpful.

2011 Feb 27
I cut my prociutto early.. about 5 months. Couldn't resist :( Next year will make two. It tastes and looks pretty good so far. Need to get deeper into it to get more fat + less salty. Will cover in some more lard and re-hang.

Zym - Glad things are working out for you. Your job sounds like a lot of education + fun. I'm looking for a nice cut for some pulled pork to make next weekend on the smoker - should I call in an order or will they have stock ready to go?